Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Bir you have made your choice and we have no problem with that but you appear to have a problem with ours the majority of TCs will choose Turkey over the "RoC" whats so difficult to understand. That decision was made back in 1974, what you have to understand is that the south have been following policies which do not bring the sides together but quite the opposite pushes us closer to Turkey but what they do not seem to want to see is that we may become more Turkish but they will lose the north forever and have to accept Turks as neighbours and a definate flood into the south once they enter the EU be it 10 20 30 years time, the dangers are on their borders and they are still faffing around trying to stop us having direct flights and friendly football matches, all for the sake of keeping us wanting a solution, well have I got news for them these policies have not worked for 44 years not going to work now, time to see the real dangers and thats not the TCs.

It is not a matter or not you choosing Turkey over the RoC. That is very clear. What you don't understand is, you don't have a choice or a voice in the matter, because Turkey is telling you what to do and not the other way around. If you believe for a second, which you don't, that Turkey will obey any instructions from you to leave Cyprus, then you are only fooling yourself. As a matter of fact, it is only the RoC can make Turkey leave Cyprus, after agreeing to let her into the EU. If Turkey was in the EU, you should stop worrying about the RoC being flooded by the Turks, and start worrying about the non-existence of the "TRNC", because the "TRNC" will be the "exchange chip" that Turkey needs to deposit at the EU Toll Plaza, in order for the gate to open for her to enter the EU. So you can do all your fear mongering all you want by wanting a Partition and not a settlement that is fair to all Cypriots.

While I'm on the subject of Partition or a full recognition, when was the last time you have heard Turkey pushing for either one. I have not heard it, and if you have, please direct me to the source. Have you ever wondered why that is VP. ?? Has it ever occurred to you, that Turkey does not want you to have a full recognition or even a Partition. They like the way things are, because they can have control over you. I know this is all music to your ear, that Turkey wants to remain in the "TRNC" to protect you....Wrong.!! Turkey only wants to lift the isolation and embargoes, so that she does not have to send you millions every year to keep the "TRNC" running. For what purpose does that serve any good to Turkey interest by throwing money away like that. How are they benefiting by turning the "TRNC" into a dependent welfare state. They are not at all. The only thing that they can collect any dividends on their investment into the "TRNC" over the years, is by getting a EU ticket signed by the RoC. Turkey is not going to want to stay in Asia because of little ol' "TRNC".

Has any of this reached the top floor of your thinking process department yet.??

[zan]

Bir you have made your choice and we have no problem with that but you appear to have a problem with ours the majority of TCs will choose Turkey over the "RoC" whats so difficult to understand. That decision was made back in 1974, what you have to understand is that the south have been following policies which do not bring the sides together but quite the opposite pushes us closer to Turkey but what they do not seem to want to see is that we may become more Turkish but they will lose the north forever and have to accept Turks as neighbours and a definate flood into the south once they enter the EU be it 10 20 30 years time, the dangers are on their borders and they are still faffing around trying to stop us having direct flights and friendly football matches, all for the sake of keeping us wanting a solution, well have I got news for them these policies have not worked for 44 years not going to work now, time to see the real dangers and thats not the TCs.

It is not a matter or not you choosing Turkey over the RoC. That is very clear. What you don't understand is, you don't have a choice or a voice in the matter, because Turkey is telling you what to do and not the other way around. If you believe for a second, which you don't, that Turkey will obey any instructions from you to leave Cyprus, then you are only fooling yourself. As a matter of fact, it is only the RoC can make Turkey leave Cyprus, after agreeing to let her into the EU. If Turkey was in the EU, you should stop worrying about the RoC being flooded by the Turks, and start worrying about the non-existence of the "TRNC", because the "TRNC" will be the "exchange chip" that Turkey needs to deposit at the EU Toll Plaza, in order for the gate to open for her to enter the EU. So you can do all your fear mongering all you want by wanting a Partition and not a settlement that is fair to all Cypriots.

While I'm on the subject of Partition or a full recognition, when was the last time you have heard Turkey pushing for either one. I have not heard it, and if you have, please direct me to the source. Have you ever wondered why that is VP. ?? Has it ever occurred to you, that Turkey does not want you to have a full recognition or even a Partition. They like the way things are, because they can have control over you. I know this is all music to your ear, that Turkey wants to remain in the "TRNC" to protect you....Wrong.!! Turkey only wants to lift the isolation and embargoes, so that she does not have to send you millions every year to keep the "TRNC" running. For what purpose does that serve any good to Turkey interest by throwing money away like that. How are they benefiting by turning the "TRNC" into a dependent welfare state. They are not at all. The only thing that they can collect any dividends on their investment into the "TRNC" over the years, is by getting a EU ticket signed by the RoC. Turkey is not going to want to stay in Asia because of little ol' "TRNC".

Has any of this reached the top floor of your thinking process department yet.??

Perhaps a little checking in your own attic will go a long way as well.....Even if what you described there were a 100% true it is better than what the "RoC" is offering, full stop. Get it into your head that as we are we can stand tall as Turks and Turkish Cypriots. We can live in a democratic TRNC/KKTC even with our Turkish brothers by our side, we cannot live in a Greek administered republic with any face or any feeling of belonging. I do not want permission from the Greek state to exist. We will only disappear in a Greek state and as long as we have the TRNC/KKTC we will always be there. Stick that into your think box and shake it about for a while. Our Turkishness is important to our identity and the tricks that have put the "RoC" where it is today will not work......I have asked you and Bir before to go and ask the "RoC" to start a return to the Zurich agreement but neither one of you did....Will you know and let us know what they say.....

[Kikapu]

Bir you have made your choice and we have no problem with that but you appear to have a problem with ours the majority of TCs will choose Turkey over the "RoC" whats so difficult to understand. That decision was made back in 1974, what you have to understand is that the south have been following policies which do not bring the sides together but quite the opposite pushes us closer to Turkey but what they do not seem to want to see is that we may become more Turkish but they will lose the north forever and have to accept Turks as neighbours and a definate flood into the south once they enter the EU be it 10 20 30 years time, the dangers are on their borders and they are still faffing around trying to stop us having direct flights and friendly football matches, all for the sake of keeping us wanting a solution, well have I got news for them these policies have not worked for 44 years not going to work now, time to see the real dangers and thats not the TCs.

It is not a matter or not you choosing Turkey over the RoC. That is very clear. What you don't understand is, you don't have a choice or a voice in the matter, because Turkey is telling you what to do and not the other way around. If you believe for a second, which you don't, that Turkey will obey any instructions from you to leave Cyprus, then you are only fooling yourself. As a matter of fact, it is only the RoC can make Turkey leave Cyprus, after agreeing to let her into the EU. If Turkey was in the EU, you should stop worrying about the RoC being flooded by the Turks, and start worrying about the non-existence of the "TRNC", because the "TRNC" will be the "exchange chip" that Turkey needs to deposit at the EU Toll Plaza, in order for the gate to open for her to enter the EU. So you can do all your fear mongering all you want by wanting a Partition and not a settlement that is fair to all Cypriots.

While I'm on the subject of Partition or a full recognition, when was the last time you have heard Turkey pushing for either one. I have not heard it, and if you have, please direct me to the source. Have you ever wondered why that is VP. ?? Has it ever occurred to you, that Turkey does not want you to have a full recognition or even a Partition. They like the way things are, because they can have control over you. I know this is all music to your ear, that Turkey wants to remain in the "TRNC" to protect you....Wrong.!! Turkey only wants to lift the isolation and embargoes, so that she does not have to send you millions every year to keep the "TRNC" running. For what purpose does that serve any good to Turkey interest by throwing money away like that. How are they benefiting by turning the "TRNC" into a dependent welfare state. They are not at all. The only thing that they can collect any dividends on their investment into the "TRNC" over the years, is by getting a EU ticket signed by the RoC. Turkey is not going to want to stay in Asia because of little ol' "TRNC".

Has any of this reached the top floor of your thinking process department yet.??

Perhaps a little checking in your own attic will go a long way as well.....Even if what you described there were a 100% true it is better than what the "RoC" is offering, full stop. Get it into your head that as we are we can stand tall as Turks and Turkish Cypriots. We can live in a democratic TRNC/KKTC even with our Turkish brothers by our side, we cannot live in a Greek administered republic with any face or any feeling of belonging. I do not want permission from the Greek state to exist. We will only disappear in a Greek state and as long as we have the TRNC/KKTC we will always be there. Stick that into your think box and shake it about for a while. Our Turkishness is important to our identity and the tricks that have put the "RoC" where it is today will not work......I have asked you and Bir before to go and ask the "RoC" to start a return to the Zurich agreement but neither one of you did....Will you know and let us know what they say.....

That's my whole point Zan. If Turkey uses the "TRNC" as a "exchange token" to open the EU gate for her, the TC's will be left at the mercy of the RoC, and guess what, they do not even have to offer anything to us, if they do not wish to. That is the danger for us TC's down the road. We will then be just another minority living in Cyprus, if we chose to stay there. If Turkey really tries to get us as much political power as possible in her agreement with the RoC, we would be lucky to get 20%. Turkey may not even bother to fight for our political rights, if they can freely wonder the streets of Paris, Rome, London, Madrid, Lisbon, Berlin and so on and so on and so on.

Talat should be the one who should be asking for us to return to any political position with the RoC and not me or Bir. There's only one problem, he has no authority to do such a thing, so he talks about a Partition. He is doing exactly what VP does, throws out idle threats because I do not believe Turkey backs this idea. The day the "TRNC" gets full recognition or Official Partition, is the day Turkey commits suicide with her EU aspirations..

[Pyrpolizer]

Talat should be the one who should be asking for us to return to any political position with the RoC and not me or Bir. There's only one problem, he has no authority to do such a thing, so he talks about a Partition. He is doing exactly what VP does, throws out idle threats because I do not believe Turkey backs this idea. The day the "TRNC" gets full recognition or Official Partition, is the day Turkey commits suicide with her EU aspirations..

I am all ears to see what Zan will answer to this.

[Eric dayi]

Isn't it funny that once the Greeks lose the argument they start to act silly and try to distract from the subject on hand?

Any apologies for spreading lies about the name changes in the KKTC or are you all going into hiding again like GR does when he can't get out of the mess he gets himself into.

What are the lies about name changes in the "TRNC" Ali Dayi.??

Are they not happening.??

Is there not a law that requires a name change.??

If your name is common or that name is being used by another person, are you not "forced" to find some other "bum fuck name" so that it is different, no matter how stupid or non traditional Cypriot the name may sounds.

So, the later a TC comes to live in the "TRNC", the more difficult it's going to be to find a decent name to call yourself, even if you had that name all your life.

Did I miss anything else.???

It is obvious from every one of your postings that you hate anything Turkish although you claim to be a TC. You have been proven wrong about the name you claimed was not Turkish Cypriot but you are still playing the silly bagger, no skin off my nose mate, it shows your true colors.

I guess you must be ashamed of your father to want to have a different surname to him. What did he do that was so wrong, save your miserable hide from getting murdered by the Greek and GC EOKA scum?

Eric dayi,

I'm not talking about just "one name" you fool. I personally welcome having a "permanent Surname/ Family name". I'm talking about the whole system of "forced" name change. We always had Surnames, that's not the issue. The issue is, why couldn't the person keep their own name as their "Official Surname/ Family Name" without having to change it to something totally different, so that it is different than someone else's.

This is precisely the reason why I didn't answer your silly questions.

What was/is your family/surname? Was it your fathers firstname like Hasan, Mehmet, Ismail or something like Topaloglu, Davulcuoglu, Boyacioglu maybe?

What is your first name, Ahmet, Mehmet, Riza, Ismail?

Is your fathers surname the same as yours and your mothers?

In every country people are "forced" one way or another to adopt a family name and a first name is not accepted as a family name. People here in the west were known as "Son of" Ie: "Son of John" which in time became "Johnson". Smith was a tradesmen that also became a surname. I would have thought that a "clever" man like you would know all about this.

It appears most of the names tend to resemble names from Turkey, since there are more names to choose from I guess, where one is able to "disect" a NAME and get many different versions out of it.. Some of the names people made up, due to lack of Joice, is absolute rubbish and has no connection to "Traditional Turkish Cypriot Names"..

There is no such thing as a "traditional" Turkish Cypriot name, any name you choose now or chose before the GCs tried to genocide us was and is and does resemble Turkish names because they are Turkish names you fool.

Be careful what you say, because it can come and bite you right in the Ass. You accuse others of distracting from the issue when they lose an argument, which is exactly what you have done. You did not answer my questions at all, instead went on about NOTHING just to prove what a fool you really are.

The only thing you have proven here is that you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about and make noise just for the sake of it to score points with your GC chams.

With every post you confirm your hate against anything Turkish and hate the fact that you were born a Turk and have a Turkish name. I really feel sorry for lost people like you and Bir but your downfall is your own fault.

Here, read your own words again.

Isn't it funny that once the Greeks lose the argument they start to act silly and try to distract from the subject on hand?

Any apologies for spreading lies about the name changes in the KKTC or are you all going into hiding again like GR does when he can't get out of the mess he gets himself into?

So you have become the mouthpiece for the GCs as well now have you? You are a fool to yourself you fool.

[BirKibrisli]

As I keep saying...."there is no one as blind as he who refuses to see"..

I have accepted the fact that most of the TCs on this forum and in real life would prefer to be assimilated into the big Turkish sea,rather than put up a winnable struggle to maintain their identity in their own Republic.

What I do not accept and will never accept is that having another go at sharing power and living as Cypriots with our GC brothers and sisters,will necessarily result in our total assimilation(Osmosis) into the GC community...

For heaven's sake...In a democratic Republic,respecting human rights and equal opportunity principles,and the rule of law, there is NO WAY whatsoever that would happen. The reason??? Because we have a different mother tongue and a different religion...Short of banning us from speaking Turkish and taking away our right to freedom of religion,osmosis is not possible...

On the other hand...we have the same language as the Turks and the same religion... There is NO WAY we can maintain our Cypriotness if we go down that path...Within a couple of generations there will be no sign of our existance except in history books...

So on one side you have the certainty of cultural and identity survival,on the other side there is certain extinction.... Yet,you are willing to keep going down that path. That is what I don't understand.And that is what I will keep fighting till the day I die...

[Eric dayi]

So what!!!!! So what if it is the Turkification of the TRNC/KKTC. We belong to the island and as long as there is no settlement we will call ourselves and the part of our island what ever the hell we like. We will not sit around and wait for your siege to work. It ain't gonna happen. Every way we can find to get around that siege we will do. I really don't understand how you and Kiks can just sit there and wish the worse for your people just so you can be proved right.

You failed to understand a lot of things it seems,Zan...

And the most frustrating thing for me is this: you do not understand that I take the total Turkification of the TCs to be the worse thing that can happen to them...We did not go through all that we did as TCs,and survived on our own,between 1964 and 74,to turn around and be swollowed up whole by our "saviours"...The Turkish sea is too big for us to survive in...But the Cypriot sea is just the right size.And it is also where we belong...As a large minority we can hold our own,keep our identity,and survive and prosper as Cypriots...But you are intend on jumping over the cliff into the big Turkish ocean where you will never be seen again...Don't expect me to jump after you lot...

Bir, your first name is Turkish as is your surname, you also use a Turkish screen name and you complain about being "Turkified"?

Give it up Bir, you are p*****g against the wind and there is no way it's not going to come back and hit you right in the face.

Stop playing the fool,Eric Dayi. I know and you know that you are no fool.

I wished I could as sure about you as you are about me not being a fool but you leave me no choice to believe that you are the biggest fool ever lived.

I am a big fool for believing that our best chance of maintaining our national identity is to join the GCs in a unified republic based on the 1960 constitution...Is that what you are saying?

You lost your national identity when you swallowed the lies the GCs fed you. I have not lost my identity and neither has the Turkish Cypriots living in the KKTC and do not trust the Gcs.

And you are a wiseman for wanting to throw away your true identity and become a "British bastard"as the Turks call us,in a pariah state going nowhere fast???

They might call you names such as that and I don't blame one little bit for it after you have sold us all out. No one has called me any names like they call you here or in the KKTC. I respect them and they respect me and that is only because I do not tell them that they are not Turkish and should embrace the enemy who are still trying their worst to get rid of us TCs and turn the whole of Cyprus into a Greek island.

The difference is that my name and surname was chosen by my father (and I do have a surname which is not my father's first name),on his own free will,before I was even born...

WOT???? You don't have your fathers first name as your surname and you claim to be a "traditional" Turkish Cypriot and at the same time complain about the other TC's taking a surname? You frigging hypocrite.

No mr Wiseman...Both my names are Cypriot names in the sense taht [b]they are identifiably first names...Not made up pretentious names like Bulutoglu,Eczacibashi,Karanfil,Haydardedeoglu or what have you...[/b]

Let me get this straight, you have a Turkish first name as a first name and you also have a Turkish first name as a surname which can only mean that you have a different first name as surname to your father? And you are proud of that?

And given that they are BOTH Turkish names how you can claim that they are "Cypriot" names is beyond anyone's comprehension and has to be by far the most stupidest thing I have ever heard in my life. Are you by any chance trying to steal GR's title?

And they are not Turkish names

HUH? "they"??? How many surnames do you have?

Anyway, you are right, "SKATAOGLU" isn't a Turkish name but it sure as hell suits you.

My father would've crushed you like an insect,Mr Wiseman,for calling him what you did.Too bad he is dead and buried,driven into exile by your hero,RR Denktash, for objecting to the TMT turning into a terrorist organisation praying on their own people.An organisation he helped found ,I will have you know!!!

Yeah, yeah, I read the tell tale story and if you expected anyone to believe your lies you are truly out of your tiny little mind.

but go as far back as the Selchouks and the Huns...

Now here's a man who know his history.....NOT....no wonder he claims he is not Turkish.

But of course everything is Turkish in your eyes...

I was born a Turk you fool, what did you expect? Did you expect me to see everything as Greek and sell out my own people like you have?

And I am a Cypriot,Mr wiseman...History will decide which one of us have betrayed our own people!!!Have no fear...

There's no need to wait for history to be written, you have already written it and proved you have betrayed your own people and prefer to go to bed with the enemy.

I don't care what names you use and don't believe a word of the lies you spread in this and other forums, as far as I am concerned you are not a Turkish Cypriot and are to be seen and treated like an enemy of our people and struggle.

Even the Eskimos,right????

At least they have not sold their own people to their enemies who wanted to genocide them like the Greeks and Greek Cypriots tried to do with us.

You laugh now but were you laughing when the bullets were flying around back in the 60's? How about when you supposedly used to go to bed with guns and hand grenades? Did you shit yourself because the Greek and the GC murdering scum EOKA were coming to kill you and your family? Is that the reason why you are scared to go back to Cyprus and live amongst your beloved "Cypriots" in the south?

You are not only a fool but also a coward because you don't want to practice what you preach. You are such a coward that you'll wait till you have been proven right or wrong till you make up your mind if it is safe to return or not.

[Eric dayi]

As I keep saying...."there is no one as blind as he who refuses to see"..

I have accepted the fact that most of the TCs on this forum and in real life would prefer to be assimilated into the big Turkish sea,rather than put up a winnable struggle to maintain their identity in their own Republic.[/quote]

We do have our own republic and we do have our identity. Itis you who lost sight of everything and are wondering around as blind as a bat and like a chicken without a head.

What I do not accept and will never accept is that having another go at sharing power and living as Cypriots with our GC brothers and sisters,will necessarily result in our total assimilation(Osmosis) into the GC community...

EOKAPapa has already admitted that he wants nothing but osmosis but you still don't want to believe it. Have you got a death wish or something? If you have go and die on your ownbut don't expect us to follow you like lemmings.

For heaven's sake...In a democratic Republic,respecting human rights and equal opportunity principles,and the rule of law, there is NO WAY whatsoever that would happen. The reason??? Because we have a different mother tongue and a different religion...Short of banning us from speaking Turkish and taking away our right to freedom of religion,osmosis is not possible...

thout any identity and idea of what or who you are. I pity you.

On the other hand...we have the same language as the Turks and the same religion... There is NO WAY we can maintain our Cypriotness if we go down that path...Within a couple of generations there will be no sign of our existance except in history books...

I have always been a Turk from birth and have always maintained my Cypriot roots. You only lose your identity of you yourself want to and you want to lose everything that is Turkish on you. Change your name to Yiannis Malakis and be done with it. It'll give you what you want and get you the fuck out of our hair.

So on one side you have the certainty of cultural and identity survival,on the other side there is certain extinction....

certain extinction is the assimilation into a Greek society in a Greek controlled island just like the Turks of Crete have suffered and the Turks in Greece are suffering. But you are too stupid and too blind to see any of this.

Yet,you are willing to keep going down that path. That is what I don't understand.

Don't blame anyone else for your shortcomings, selling your soul and your people is your own fault alone.

And that is what I will keep fighting till the day I die...

Fight? Did you say fight? Wot, eight thousand miles away in safety of your home and the comfort of your arm chair? You armchair warrior you.

Why don't you go back and fight shoulder to shoulder with your "Cypriot" compatriots in South Cyprus? Too scared of what they might do to you? Would you feel lonely there? Do you not speak the lingo? "Fight" he says!

Yes, this is your true face, it's about time you showed it instead of hiding it.

[Eric dayi]

That's my whole point Zan. If Turkey uses the "TRNC" as a "exchange token" to open the EU gate for her, the TC's will be left at the mercy of the RoC, and guess what, they do not even have to offer anything to us, if they do not wish to. That is the danger for us TC's down the road. We will then be just another minority living in Cyprus, if we chose to stay there. If Turkey really tries to get us as much political power as possible in her agreement with the RoC, we would be lucky to get 20%. Turkey may not even bother to fight for our political rights, if they can freely wonder the streets of Paris, Rome, London, Madrid, Lisbon, Berlin and so on and so on and so on.

May this, may that and may the other, hot air and nothing else.

Talat should be the one who should be asking for us to return to any political position with the RoC and not me or Bir. There's only one problem, he has no authority to do such a thing, so he talks about a Partition.

Talat has been begging the GCs for unification since before his election and that is the reason why he was elected in the first place, because people believed him and though he would be able to talk the GCs into it but what has happened since? Nothing, the GCs who were supposed to be his compatriots have abandoned him and have changed their minds about unification.

Talat has never said that he wants partitioning what he said was that the majority of Turkish Cypriots since the Annan plan have realised what the Gcs are after and have changed their minds about unification and now want recognition. In fact what Talat was doing was warning the GCs of the growing interest in TCs for recognition because of the actions by the Gcs. He never himself said he wants partitioning, I wished he did but he hasn't.

He is doing exactly what VP does, throws out idle threats because I do not believe Turkey backs this idea.

You only see what he says as threats because that is what you have been trained to see and nothing else.

The day the "TRNC" gets full recognition or Official Partition, is the day Turkey commits suicide with her EU aspirations..

If Turkey is refused entry it is not the end of the world for Turkey. Majority of people in Turkey have lost confidence in the EU and do not believe that they will ever be allowed to join a xenophobic and racist EU anyway. The fact is that with the situation the EU is in it will be better for Turkey in the long run if they stay out of the EU for may different reasons.

Why do you think that most EU major companies are abandoning the EU and opening shop in Turkey and other Eastern countries? Should Turkey join the EU they will be forced to do the same with their major companies because like other EU countries the wages will go sky high and no one will be able to afford to employ workers in large major companies.

Most companies here in the UK have their support centres in India and have car parts made in Turkey (???) and Taiwan and other countries, in fact anywhere but in any EU country because they can't afford to pay the wages.

When Poland joined the EU they could not even spend the monies they received from the EU to build their infrastructure because all their workers
left the country for a "better life" here in the UK working for £30 a day. The same could happen to Turkey but do not fret, Turkey will never be allowed to join and the EU will not be stormed and taken over by 70 million Turks.

So don't worry about what Turkey may or may not do, you'd be better off worrying about what the Gcs will do if TPaps gets his osmosis.

[paliometoxo]

.. talats been begging for re-unification?.. oh so much!
he wants PARITITION he wants a recognised TRNC far from re-unification