Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Kifea you have a point there re 2008 and the new deadline. However, after observing EU workings for 30 years, it was called EEC back then, I am not at all hopeful that they will keep to their word. Helsinkin was succeded by Madrid and then Lisbon and decisions that appear strict and uncompromising are watered down to suit the party exerting the highest pressure, in this case the UK and USA who wil lbe doing the usual pro Turkey pushing.

I read very careuflly the link you put up the other day to Dr Djavit An's report and findthe dmographic problem potentially disastrous for the Turkish Cypriots. They will simply become demographically irrelevant in a few years due to the combined effects of emigration and mainland settlement. It is imaginable that indigenous Cypriots will not be able to seek elected office in a few years time.

[Kikapu]

Kifeas,

This was my post from yesterday on another thread regarding "time limits".

Setting a time limit is a good idea, only when both parties are interested in solving problems. Setting a time limit is a bad idea, if one or both the parties do not want to solve any problems, in which they can say, look, we put the effort in, in the prescribed time limit and nothing has come about, so it's time to cut our loses and say goodbye to each other. There can be so many tactics used by either side to derail anything and everything, until they run out the clock.

So the question is, who would want to run out the clock and why.

[Get Real!]

Yes, I can see where I have got you confused Murataga. Let me try again.

I do admire your patience...

[Kifeas]

Kifea you have a point there re 2008 and the new deadline. However, after observing EU workings for 30 years, it was called EEC back then, I am not at all hopeful that they will keep to their word. Helsinkin was succeded by Madrid and then Lisbon and decisions that appear strict and uncompromising are watered down to suit the party exerting the highest pressure, in this case the UK and USA who wil lbe doing the usual pro Turkey pushing.

I read very careuflly the link you put up the other day to Dr Djavit An's report and findthe dmographic problem potentially disastrous for the Turkish Cypriots. They will simply become demographically irrelevant in a few years due to the combined effects of emigration and mainland settlement. It is imaginable that indigenous Cypriots will not be able to seek elected office in a few years time.

Yes Nikitas, but as you can see, the likes of Murat_Aga, VP, Zan, MG, bigOzmanli and CIA, are not particularly concerned about this problem! Do you want us to become more royalists than the king himself, and accept Murat's "shopping list" of illegitimate demands and conditions, so that we solve the Cyprus issue as soon as possible and before the indigenous TCs become a minority in the occupied north?

[Nikitas]

Kifea,

No I was not suggesting a capitulation of any kind. But I can see Talat's predicament- he has to get moving, and at the same time has to maintain a dignified stance, a front that he is not under any pressure to solve this problem, the demographic problem not the Cyprus problem. The demographic problem will swallow him up and spit him out, the Cyprus problem keeps him as president of his republic. In some ways he has a higher title and more prestige now than after a solution is reached.

As to Murataga's list, it looks like it was drafted by the Bayraktar Bozkurt himself. way back in 1958.

[Kikapu]

Yes, I can see where I have got you confused Murataga. Let me try again.

I do admire your patience... :)

It's my "middle name" GR.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas,

This was my post from yesterday on another thread regarding "time limits".

Setting a time limit is a good idea, only when both parties are interested in solving problems. Setting a time limit is a bad idea, if one or both the parties do not want to solve any problems, in which they can say, look, we put the effort in, in the prescribed time limit and nothing has come about, so it's time to cut our loses and say goodbye to each other. There can be so many tactics used by either side to derail anything and everything, until they run out the clock.

So the question is, who would want to run out the clock and why.

Precisely! Thanks Kikapu for putting it in such "clear-cut" terms!

[Murataga]

Sounds like Kalyoncu (non Cypriot name) is throwing a lot of unrelated crap on the wall, to see what will stick and what doesn't.

"He said that the Greek Cypriot Side which had secured unilateral European Union membership was playing for time"

Has anyone asked this person, just what would be the reason for the RoC to be "playing for time".

"Playing for time" for what purpose exactly.??

Halil, do any of you working at "Bayrak" ask questions when politicians make statements, or do you just keep quiet.

I want some answers Halil.

Hello Kikapu; hope all is goign well. Something interesting in your post caught my eye there... What is by your definition a "Cypriot name" ? No offense, just curios.

Nice to hear from you to Murataga,

Any Turkish Cypriot names before 1974 is what I consider to be "Cypriot Names". They were quite distinct from the names from Turkey, so now, I can't tell who is actually a TC and who is a Turk from Turkey from just by their names anymore, because I can't separate the Two.

I hope I was able to explain myself clearly.

I am afraid you have confused me even more. In your previos post you claimed a name to be non-Cypriot (which requires that you know or have a definition of what a "Cypriot name" actually is), but now you are saying:

I can't tell who is actually a TC and who is a Turk from Turkey from just by their names anymore, because I can't separate the Two

If you don`t know what a Cypriot name is or cant distinguish it, than how were you able to claim that the guy`s name is non-Cypriot?

Yes, I can see where I have got you confused Murataga. Let me try again.

The names that does not sound "Cypriot", are the same names that sound like the ones from Turkey for Turks. When the TC's were forced to adopt "new" Family names (surname) few years ago, it appears they have adopted names that were not traditional names that has been in Cyprus pre 1974. The names they have adopted, is very similar if not same as the names you will find in Turkey, or very much close in style and sounding. This makes it very difficult to distinguish a Turk from a TC when only reading their names. In another words, I doubt very much that, if one were to open a "TRNC" telephone book and read all the surnames of all those that are listed, that you would find too many of these names in another telephone book that was issued before 1974.

And again, as you openly confess that you have no sense or knowledge of distinction of the surnames, how do you claim his is non-Cypriot ? Or better yet how does "Kalyoncu" does not sound Cypriot ?

[Nikitas]

Wait a f----ing minute,

What is this about being forced to change names! You cant just let off a rocket like that in here and not give the rest of us an explanation!

Kikapu what does the phrase "forced to adopt "new" family names" mean? I always thought the names Turkish Cypriots used were very Turkish names, I know family names such Nevzat, Mehmet, Suleiman etc, how were these names deemed to be not Turkish?

Nikitas

[Kikapu]

Sounds like Kalyoncu (non Cypriot name) is throwing a lot of unrelated crap on the wall, to see what will stick and what doesn't.

"He said that the Greek Cypriot Side which had secured unilateral European Union membership was playing for time"

Has anyone asked this person, just what would be the reason for the RoC to be "playing for time".

"Playing for time" for what purpose exactly.??

Halil, do any of you working at "Bayrak" ask questions when politicians make statements, or do you just keep quiet.

I want some answers Halil.

Hello Kikapu; hope all is goign well. Something interesting in your post caught my eye there... What is by your definition a "Cypriot name" ? No offense, just curios.

Nice to hear from you to Murataga,

Any Turkish Cypriot names before 1974 is what I consider to be "Cypriot Names". They were quite distinct from the names from Turkey, so now, I can't tell who is actually a TC and who is a Turk from Turkey from just by their names anymore, because I can't separate the Two.

I hope I was able to explain myself clearly.

I am afraid you have confused me even more. In your previos post you claimed a name to be non-Cypriot (which requires that you know or have a definition of what a "Cypriot name" actually is), but now you are saying:

I can't tell who is actually a TC and who is a Turk from Turkey from just by their names anymore, because I can't separate the Two

If you don`t know what a Cypriot name is or cant distinguish it, than how were you able to claim that the guy`s name is non-Cypriot?

Yes, I can see where I have got you confused Murataga. Let me try again.

The names that does not sound "Cypriot", are the same names that sound like the ones from Turkey for Turks. When the TC's were forced to adopt "new" Family names (surname) few years ago, it appears they have adopted names that were not traditional names that has been in Cyprus pre 1974. The names they have adopted, is very similar if not same as the names you will find in Turkey, or very much close in style and sounding. This makes it very difficult to distinguish a Turk from a TC when only reading their names. In another words, I doubt very much that, if one were to open a "TRNC" telephone book and read all the surnames of all those that are listed, that you would find too many of these names in another telephone book that was issued before 1974.

And again, as you openly confess that you have no sense or knowledge of distinction of the surnames, how do you claim his is non-Cypriot ? Or better yet how does "Kalyoncu" does not sound Cypriot ?

I know that a name like "Kalyoncu" is not a traditional Turkish Cypriot name, but very close to a Turkish name from Turkey, therefore, any name given to a Cypriot today having a name sounding from Turkey, makes that person sound as if they are all from Turkey, even though they are from Cyprus.

Now you know what I'm talking about, so lets not chase the rabbit around the tree endlessly, so here is a question for you Murataga. Can you locate this name "Kalyoncu" or 99% of any other surnames used by Turkish Cypriots today, on any official documents or even a Telephone book for Cyprus, issues before 1974. In other words, just how deep "roots" do these names go down on the "Family Tree" in Cyprus. We are not talking about the settlers or their children. Only TC's who lived in Cyprus before the name changes were forced on them after 1974.