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CLOSE THE GATES!

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Do you agree with Pantelis' assertion that pre-April 2003 Green Line restrictions should be re-imposed?

Poll ended at Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:26 pm

Yes
2
15%
No
10
77%
Don't know/Not Sure
1
8%
 
Total votes : 13

Postby magikthrill » Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:21 pm

Viewpoint wrote:If you havent noticed I hate guns thats why I have reacted this way,so it will not make me happy to buy one, but I to have to think of my family in the face of your communities current general practice.


Thats because you have a foreign country holding your guns. That is even if you do consider Turkey to be a foreigh country.


Thanks for your answer although riddled with passing the buck to others attitude nevertheless at least you admit you dont want to keep them thats a plus in my book, as for me wanting to keep a gun as I said above I hate them but have to be prepared to protect my family against GC mindset & practice, dont worry I promise to only use mine against you if there is a war.



I believe I stated in a much previous post that I am against civilians holding guns in any way. ALso I mentioned that gun control policies require LENGTHY debates which is why I didn't care to get into the whole issue.
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Postby Kifeas » Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:40 pm

Metecyp, these are my anwers to your questions
Metecyp wrote:TC: The RoC has Greek national anthem.
GC: What do you expect when 1/3 of my country is occupied.


The Greek national anthem is not an official anthem for the RoC. It is used more or less for convenient reasons. The adoption of a Cypriot National anthem constitutionally requires the presence and approval of TCs. I hope you see the problem that we face on this issue, given the current abnormalities in Cyprus and the "absence" of the TCs from RoC power institutions. However, even under these circumstances, I believe RoC should have adopted its own anthem, claiming the law of necessity.

TC: TCs are not allowed to claim their properties back in the south and the RoC claim to be legal
GC: What do you expect when 200.000 refugees are denied to access their properties?

Yes they are allowed, provided they return back to the south for a certain period (six months) and there is evidence that they do not simultaneously hold or have disposed (sold) GC properties in the north. If in a particular property or house there is currently a GC refuge from the north and doesn't wish to vacate it, at least not after some time, then an alternative and as much as possible, equivalent solution is offered. Again, don't you see any logic in this policy, at all?

TC: How come no GC polician even talks about return of TCs to the RoC? It seems like you guys don't want to share the RoC.
GC: What do you expect when TCs have their illegal TRNC?

There are political parties who advocate this return. However, the official policy of the RoC on the issue, and of the parties supporting it, although they may favour such a form of solution, is not to publicly proclaim it because it will be contrary to what has been agreed between the two communities at the high level agreements in 1977, which call for the formation of a bi-zonal, bi-communal federation. The official TC leadership will immediately blow the whistle to the international community and will simply say, "You see! The GCs are not sincere when they were negotiate with us all these years on what has been agreed, i.e. for a solution on the basis of BBF." Should the TC community’s leadership decides to seek a solution on the basis of a unitary state, based on the existing constitution, I believe it must first make it clear to the GC side and the UN and then I am sure the GC leadership will not have such a problem. On the individual level, i.e. when a TC wishes to return and exercise his political rights within the RoC, this has already been accommodated under a law based on the concept of "necessity." In fact this law was enacted recently, after an ECHR ruling was brought against the RoC by a TC residing in the south, (Ibraim Aziz.)
TC: The history education in the south is very biased.
GC: What do you expect when 200.000 refugees are still denied of their basic human rights.

Ok! The history of which period? The last 50 years? This period as far as I know is very superficially touched in schools. Therefore I will not dispute the above claim. However, schools are not the only place people learn the very recent history of their country. Media, family and political party affiliations play an equally important role. The every day life itself and the implication that our recent history has on them, are reasons enough for people to seek answers and thus learn their true history.

Metecyp, I hope you do not find these answers any similar to those you quoted above.
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Postby MicAtCyp » Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:44 am

wrote: on the particular issue of having National Guard given riffles at home, what answer to you expect a GC should give to someone like Viewpoint


Until you all come to realise that Viewpoint is a female, and she is simply lying that she is a male, then you will keep wondering. In the beginning she might have even thought we had bazookas, or even tanks at home, forget it, stop bothering with her.The person knows nothing about Armies, knows nothing concerning military, why are you scratching your heads to understand? Tell any female the same things, you will get exactly the same response.
If you wonder how it can be verified just watch the responses and priorities of the person carefully, starting from the Eurovision stuff and other nonsense a female would most likely be interested in. Then add all those "likelinesses" together
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Postby cannedmoose » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:51 pm

MicAtCyp wrote:Until you all come to realise that Viewpoint is a female, and she is simply lying that she is a male, then you will keep wondering. In the beginning she might have even thought we had bazookas, or even tanks at home, forget it, stop bothering with her.The person knows nothing about Armies, knows nothing concerning military, why are you scratching your heads to understand? Tell any female the same things, you will get exactly the same response.
If you wonder how it can be verified just watch the responses and priorities of the person carefully, starting from the Eurovision stuff and other nonsense a female would most likely be interested in. Then add all those "likelinesses" together


Mic@Cyp, a number of points, but firstly let me say that I often disagree with VP and many of his/her points, but the message you just posted was out of order.

Firstly, do you have concrete proof that VP is female?
Secondly, what the hell does it matter if he/she is?
Thirdly, you make a number of sweeping mysogenistic generalisations about women's knowledge of military issues that are quite simply prehistoric. Go to NATO HQ and you'll find plenty of female experts in military affairs... or pop across the water to Israel if you want to see women serving in the military...
Fourthly, your label of women's interests as 'nonsense' is reprehensible and seems to say a lot about your views towards them.
Finally, I suggest you look at this webpage... oh, and then apologise to VP - male or female.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexism

...and while you're at it, this one would also be helpful...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice
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Postby MicAtCyp » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:28 pm

Kifeas wrote: The Greek national anthem is not an official anthem for the RoC.


Kifeas I would like to learn what you know about this matter. The 1960 constitution did not say anything about the National anthem. When did we actually use the Greek National anthem? Another thing that puzzles me, the TCs left the Government in 1963.Which National anthem was used from 1960-63, I mean it should have been used at least once isn’t it? Didn’t the Vice president notice ?
I am really in the dark regarding this matter.
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Postby Piratis » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:34 pm

It's the same syndrome of "giving excuses" for wrong actions.



Metecyp, there are no excuses, there are reasons. And what you gave as what you think is a GC answer is wrong.

Here are the correct ones:

TC: The RoC has Greek National Anthem
GC: This was the agreement we made in 1960. We got an anthem that does nothing to us, and you got superprivilages such as 30% positions in government, veto power on everything etc. We would be more than happy to give up the Greek anthem (because we accept it is unfair for you) but at the same time you should give up the things that were unfair for us in those agreements.

TC: TCs are not allowed to claim their properties back in the south and the RoC claim to be legal
GC: We would be more than glad if everybody returns to his/her home and property. This is what we are trying to do. You are the ones who stop this from happening.

TC: How come no GC polician even talks about return of TCs to the RoC? It seems like you guys don't want to share the RoC.
GC: There is a political party that talks exactly about that (New Horizons). Most parties don't talk about this because TCs don't even want to talk about such possibility and therefore it is considered an unrealistic objective (with the current balance of power)

TC: The history education in the south is very biased.
GC: The history for some period (63-67) is indeed biased. However the TC history is very biased also. To be in the position to criticize others about this, you should first correct yourselves.

TC: You have guns at homes.
GC: We are more than willing to exchange our rifles with what the Turkish army has.
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Postby Kifeas » Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:15 pm

MicAtCyp wrote:Kifeas I would like to learn what you know about this matter. The 1960 constitution did not say anything about the National anthem. When did we actually use the Greek National anthem? Another thing that puzzles me, the TCs left the Government in 1963.Which National anthem was used from 1960-63, I mean it should have been used at least once isn’t it? Didn’t the Vice president notice ?
I am really in the dark regarding this matter.


There was absolutely no provision in the 1960 constitution about National anthem or a flag. No one even bothered organising any competition for them. Makarios was once asked to present to the UN a Cypriot flag, as it was essential for a member country to have its flag there. He asked several people to give some suggestions, I do not thing it was an official completion, and a TC designed a map of Cyprus on a paper. Makarios added the olive branches underneath and that was it. Then there was an official visit by a foreign leader in Cyprus and they discovered that Cyprus didn't have a national anthem to play together with the other country's anthem. Then they thought to ask the police philharmonic to play a 5 second long fanfare (all instruments playing simultaneously their tune.) That was it. This fanfare was played a few more times in some other official visits and then 1963 events came about. Ever since, the Greek National anthem was used as in convenience.
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Postby MicAtCyp » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:33 pm

Cannedmoose wrote: Thirdly, you make a number of sweeping mysogenistic generalisations about women's knowledge of military issues that are quite simply prehistoric. Go to NATO HQ and you'll find plenty of female experts in military affairs... or pop across the water to Israel if you want to see women serving in the military...
Fourthly, your label of women's interests as 'nonsense' is reprehensible and seems to say a lot about your views towards them.
Finally, I suggest you look at this webpage... oh, and then apologise to VP - male or female.


Moose first of all women in Cyprus are completely ignorant of how the military works, so your point is irrelevant. It's not a matter of women compared with men it's a matter of knowledge.
For your information I have a pretty good personal knowledge of women in the Army and I suggest you make a deep search before you come up with conclussions.

I am not a misogynist, on the contrary I am a real feminist in it's moden meaning. Women are not inferior or superior,equal or unequal, women ARE DIFFERENT.Like it or not the use of arms is against womens nature. The arm it self is a phallocratic symbol.( look at a canon to realise that). Expecting a woman to do something (kill) which is against her very nature(caring for life) simply to prove she is equal with man is anti-feminist . (No I am not asking you to apologise, however think of it before labeling me a misogynist who should apologise)

Having said that I find nothing wrong for a mans brain to label the female interests as nonsense, (=of no sense to him) nor for a womans brain to label the male interests (e.g footbal) as those of "thickheads". By the way a couple of days ago VP called me "big-head" and I called her "empty-head". One more coincidence you think? I find it quite natural, as long as that is not used as an argument that women are inferior, but as an argument that women are different and often make no-sense to men.This works the other way too you know, and it will work like that for eternity. (You will learn this through your married life if you did not learn it already....)

Make a poll in this forum to see how many women are participating.Then ask yourself why.Is it because they are less educated? Is it because the Cyprus problem is not important for them? Is it because they are not clever? Is it because they don't have a computer? Is it because they are too tired from work?

Or is it because fighting over it makes "no-sense" to them? Women my friend expect the men to do the fighting. Does it automatically mean we are the "wise" and they the "stupid"? Perhaps the truth is the other way round....
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Postby MicAtCyp » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:34 pm

Thanks a lot Kifeas
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Postby Piratis » Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:49 pm

There was absolutely no provision in the 1960 constitution about National anthem or a flag.


Until today I thought that there was at least something unfair for the TCs too in those agreements. Apparently the only ones who were getting screwed by the British plans were us (not surprising actually)
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