Cyprus-Forum.com

[paliometoxo]

Application against Cyprus

for 1960 voting rights


By Philippos Stylianou


TWO Turkish Cypriots living in the occupied areas yesterday announced that they have launched an application to the Strasbourg-based European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) against the Cyprus government, seeking "to reactivate" their political rights under the 1960 Cyprus Constitution.

Ali Erel, former chairman of the Turkish Cypriot Chamber of Commerce, and Mustafa Damdelen, name Greek Cypriot lawyers Achilleas Demetriades and Nicolas Kyriacou as their legal representatives in Strasbourg.

Demetriades is known from the ground-breaking cases of Greek Cypriot refugees Titina Loizidou and Myra Xenides-Aresti, who won huge amounts of compensation from the ECHR against Turkey for violation of their property rights.

Commenting on the development, Achilleas Demetriades described it as "an important move at the legal level," noting that he did not want to go into the politics of it.

"It is not possible for Cypriot citizens to be deprived of certain human rights because of their ethnic origin," he told The Cyprus Weekly yesterday and added: "As for the political aspect, you could perhaps ask the presidential candidates what they think of it."

Unlike Ibrahim Aziz, another Turkish Cypriot who enrolled on the general electoral register of Cyprus after winning a case at the ECHR, Erel and Damdelen seek to revive the separate Turkish Cypriot electoral roll as expressly provided in the 1960 Constitution for 24 deputies.

They base their application on Article 3 Protocol 1 of the European Convention on Human Rights guaranteeing the free expression of the opinion of the people in the choice of legislature.

Good chance

Demetriades said that the fact the applicants were not resident in the government-controlled areas could not deprive them of their rights and said his clients stood a good chance of winning.

But prominent lawyer Diko MP Andreas Angelides held a different view. He drew attention to the fact that the ECHR in the case of Ibrahim Aziz had gone beyond the 1960 Constitution, ruling that the discrimination of two separate electoral registers was unacceptable.

"I don’t think that the Court can contradict itself so glaringly by reversing its previous judgment," he said.

Angelides recalled that the Supreme Court of Cyprus had invoked the law of necessity to suspend the separate Turkish electoral register. Following the ECHR decision in the Aziz case, the Constitution was amended making possible the enrolment of Turkish Cypriots on the general register, provided they were resident in the free area for 6 months.

"Erel and Damdelen are not even residents," Angelides noted. In his view they seek to create political impressions in favour of the current situation on the island.

The Turkish Cypriot applicants made no secret of this when they initiated their move in February 2006. Representing a group of 78 by the collective name of "Jasmine" they had then presented a petition to the Interior Minister, who turned them down.

Rejected

Asked by the journalists how they could claim to have voting rights both in the occupied and the free part of the island, Ali Erel had said: "The Republic of Cyprus was established as a bi-communal state; it is not bi-communal in real life, it is mono-communal. So, what we are aiming at is a bi-communal umbrella, a state in the north and a state in the south, as it is well said in the Annan Plan."

According to their statements, they planned to apply first to the Cyprus Supreme Court and then to European Court of Human Rights if they were rejected.

Following the rejection of their request by the Interior Ministry, they filed an application with the Supreme Court which rejected it basing its ruling on the law of necessity.

Erel and Damdelen announced their application to the ECHR using a letterhead of the "Cyprus EU Association" in occupied Nicosia.

[Piratis]

From what I know TCs can elect and be elected just like every other citizen of Cyprus. In the last parliamentary elections there were TC candidates and TC voters. As far as their human rights go (for which the ECHR is for) this covers them 100%.

Having a separate electoral roll is not a human right, but a privilege given to TCs with the 1960 agreements, and therefore beyond the ECHR. (while a complain by a GC about the racist and discriminatory elements of those agreements could very well be within the ECHR jurisdiction)

If the TCs want legallity to return according to the 1960 agreements, then they should also start respecting our rights. Such agreements go as a whole, it is not "pick and choose" that you can take only what you like and grossly violate the rest.

When TCs are ready to accept legality they should let us know.

[humanist]

At the end of the day the Cypro will be sloved by the people. Such moves from people on both sides will solve the problem. Hwever it does not help things that whilst Turkish Cypriots are able to take the RoC to court and claim their right, but do not advocate for the refugees to do the same.

Piratis I think that TC's who live in the occupied areas but who also lived their prior to 74 ought to have the right to vote within the RoC.

As far as the two electoral rolls, I think that is not a move towards a unified country. There needs to be one electrol roll for all Cypriots. If they are eligible to vote then they need to be on a RoC electrol roll.

The whole thing is a farse and the TC's hold the key to it. Last night I was reading anarticle that a political group of the "trnc' speaking to london audience said that their intention is not to get recognotion for the illegal state, then what the hell are they doing? Why not pressure their government to sit down and talk.

That is because Talata is a Moron who has no idea what he is doing and the World is beginning to see that. How can he go to a meeting wanting to change an agreement he signed a year ago. Why waste time. He is made to look like a fool whilst Turkey sits back and laughs at his expense behind closed doors. Meanwhile he is enjoying presidential status and his people are starving and becoming a minority within their own country.

How would that be witten in histroy the president who elimnated his own people. Half of them will now immigrate to EU countries via their new passports the rest will become elderly and die in the trnc and the rest will be bread out byt the settlers, who they hate.

I'm afraid TC's hold the key to their futuere and those with property in the south ought to brave it and move south so that they can enjoy the benefits the RoC has to offer to all its citizens and let Talat fight it out at his own pace.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

From what I know TCs can elect and be elected just like every other citizen of Cyprus. In the last parliamentary elections there were TC candidates and TC voters. As far as their human rights go (for which the ECHR is for) this covers them 100%.

This only came about due to EU pressure to come in line with EU norms and not discriminate against TCs living in the "RoC" whom they cliam to respresent.

Having a separate electoral roll is not a human right, but a privilege given to TCs with the 1960 agreements, and therefore beyond the ECHR. (while a complain by a GC about the racist and discriminatory elements of those agreements could very well be within the ECHR jurisdiction)

You yourself claim that these agreements are the only binding ones and to which we should all return, now you claim they do not work and shoudl be changed, make up your mind.

If the TCs want legallity to return according to the 1960 agreements, then they should also start respecting our rights. Such agreements go as a whole, it is not "pick and choose" that you can take only what you like and grossly violate the rest.

You respect our rights to have equal rights while divided and then we can talk about uniting, you want recognition, land and power, not gonna happen. We to will go to the ECHR where we feel we have rights and over the coming years these cases will increase. If you have the freedom to excercise this right so do we.

When TCs are ready to accept legality they should let us know.

Legality according to what? the defacto "RoC" which you contradict yourself by claiming its what we shoudl return to but in the same breath will want to chnage at the first opportunity.

[Viewpoint]

humanist

At the end of the day the Cypro will be sloved by the people. Such moves from people on both sides will solve the problem. Hwever it does not help things that whilst Turkish Cypriots are able to take the RoC to court and claim their right, but do not advocate for the refugees to do the same.

There are 2500 cases pending at the ECHR.

Piratis I think that TC's who live in the occupied areas but who also lived their prior to 74 ought to have the right to vote within the RoC.

You to are contradicting yourself, I thought you wanted isolation to continues on TCs or is this another ploy for osmosis via your plan to get TCs to move to the GC state "RoC", well as you can clearly see this is not happening as Tcs can move and live south of the divide today.

As far as the two electoral rolls, I think that is not a move towards a unified country. There needs to be one electrol roll for all Cypriots. If they are eligible to vote then they need to be on a RoC electrol roll.

With an 80% advantage of course you would support this ideology, you are not a TC.

The whole thing is a farse and the TC's hold the key to it. Last night I was reading anarticle that a political group of the "trnc' speaking to london audience said that their intention is not to get recognotion for the illegal state, then what the hell are they doing? Why not pressure their government to sit down and talk.

We have been the side asking to sit down and talk ask the UN, your leader has been claiming theres not point as he woudl rather talk with Turkey who does not recognize the "RoC".

That is because Talata is a Moron who has no idea what he is doing and the World is beginning to see that. How can he go to a meeting wanting to change an agreement he signed a year ago. Why waste time. He is made to look like a fool whilst Turkey sits back and laughs at his expense behind closed doors. Meanwhile he is enjoying presidential status and his people are starving and becoming a minority within their own country.

Starving??? obviously you have not been to the TRNC the standard of living is on par with some of the last batch countries that joined the EU. Your miniture leader and his sheep are the problem they want opened ended negotiations which have never produced and results in Cyprus Talat has called your bluff with wanting timetables which would force results which otherwise would never come about. Your miniture is laughing behind closed doors at how easy it is to fool you people into thinking he wants a solution he has 90% of his demands already.

How would that be witten in histroy the president who elimnated his own people. Half of them will now immigrate to EU countries via their new passports the rest will become elderly and die in the trnc and the rest will be bread out byt the settlers, who they hate.

So? the same will happen to you by the Britis and Russians only difference is yours will take a little longer, at least we can claim we returned to our roots, how about you people?

I'm afraid TC's hold the key to their futuere and those with property in the south ought to brave it and move south so that they can enjoy the benefits the RoC has to offer to all its citizens and let Talat fight it out at his own pace.

The key is the easying the isolation on the economy of the north to allow us to move away from depending on Turkey and standing on our feet but this can only be seen by Gcs who really want a solution and not those that pay lip service to a solution that will never happen.

[humanist]

VP, I am not going to respond to the above, please stop saying things that I have not said. I did not state above that TC' ought to move the the Greek state. I said th RoC.

Secondly, I said it before, you don't get me one little bit. The fact that I argue for TC's to be enrolled in one electrol roll is because I believe that all human beings are equal. The rest is your fear based and racist ideology,

I don't find any essence in the rst of your post so am leavin it


Have a good day, I am going to peace march now.

cya

[Piratis]

Piratis

From what I know TCs can elect and be elected just like every other citizen of Cyprus. In the last parliamentary elections there were TC candidates and TC voters. As far as their human rights go (for which the ECHR is for) this covers them 100%.

This only came about due to EU pressure to come in line with EU norms and not discriminate against TCs living in the "RoC" whom they cliam to respresent.

We would love to make everything in Cyprus in line with EU norms. The discrimination among TCs and GCs is something that you insisted and continue to insist upon. If we tried to make such positive reforms by ourselves you would accuse us of changing the RoC constitution, but when the change is made due to ECHR rulings you can't say anything.

So this is a change we wanted, and thanks to that TC that took RoC to the ECHR it is now achieved in a perfectly legal way.

Having a separate electoral roll is not a human right, but a privilege given to TCs with the 1960 agreements, and therefore beyond the ECHR. (while a complain by a GC about the racist and discriminatory elements of those agreements could very well be within the ECHR jurisdiction)

You yourself claim that these agreements are the only binding ones and to which we should all return, now you claim they do not work and shoudl be changed, make up your mind.

What I say is clear: Those agreements are the only legal thing, and changes to them can be achieved only by legal means. Just like every country makes reforms to become more democratic and fair to its citizens.

If the TCs want legallity to return according to the 1960 agreements, then they should also start respecting our rights. Such agreements go as a whole, it is not "pick and choose" that you can take only what you like and grossly violate the rest.

You respect our rights to have equal rights while divided and then we can talk about uniting, you want recognition, land and power, not gonna happen. We to will go to the ECHR where we feel we have rights and over the coming years these cases will increase. If you have the freedom to excercise this right so do we.

Give us the 100% of our rights, and simultaneously get the 100% of yours. Simple. I am not denying your rights, you are the one who denies mine (and due to that you face consequences)

When TCs are ready to accept legality they should let us know.

Legality according to what? the defacto "RoC" which you contradict yourself by claiming its what we shoudl return to but in the same breath will want to chnage at the first opportunity.

Change it by legal means, based on ECHR rulings for example. Do you have a problem with that Viewpoint?

[Viewpoint]

humanist

VP, I am not going to respond to the above, please stop saying things that I have not said. I did not state above that TC' ought to move the the Greek state. I said th RoC.

Ask yourself who runs the "RoC" then you will understand why we refer to the south as the GC state.

Secondly, I said it before, you don't get me one little bit. The fact that I argue for TC's to be enrolled in one electrol roll is because I believe that all human beings are equal. The rest is your fear based and racist ideology,

Equal as long as the 80% balance is in your favor and we dont have a chance in hell of ever being elected.

I don't find any essence in the rst of your post so am leavin it

You wouldnt when it challenges your fixed beliefs, you have taken the easy option out.

Have a good day, I am going to peace march now.

Against which war?

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

We would love to make everything in Cyprus in line with EU norms. The discrimination among TCs and GCs is something that you insisted and continue to insist upon. If we tried to make such positive reforms by ourselves you would accuse us of changing the RoC constitution, but when the change is made due to ECHR rulings you can't say anything.

So this is a change we wanted, and thanks to that TC that took RoC to the ECHR it is now achieved in a perfectly legal way.

You twist matters to suit yourself, these rights were granted to TCs yet the "RoC" denied them, only when the EU put you in your place did you start to follow your own constitution, its these actions which puts the wind up TCs GCs have this knack of minipulating situations to always suit GCs and not anyone else unless they are found out by a body like the EU and put in their place. We feel we will even have to fight to pay even a water bill in a united Cyprus where the administration is run purely by GCs.

What I say is clear: Those agreements are the only legal thing, and changes to them can be achieved only by legal means. Just like every country makes reforms to become more democratic and fair to its citizens.

You will immediatly try to water down our community rights so why make those chnages now via something like the Annan plan so we all know what we are ggetting and we ar enot left to the mercy of GCs who have never had our best interests at heart.

Give us the 100% of our rights, and simultaneously get the 100% of yours. Simple. I am not denying your rights, you are the one who denies mine (and due to that you face consequences)

I have no problem with this as long as we agree a comprehensive solution under a BBF structure with safeguards.

Change it by legal means, based on ECHR rulings for example. Do you have a problem with that Viewpoint?

Ditto above we need a comprehensive solution and the starting place is a level playing field where both sides have the same advantages and disadvantages, treat both sides the same and you will be on a fast track to unification, the current policy will pay dividends, if you have not realized this in 44 years then you will never see a solution in your lifetime.

[Piratis]

VP, read my first post in this thread. It answers all your questions.

Words are cheap. This is a case you will clearly loose because you have no human right for a separate electoral roll.

If you want your rights according to the 1960 agreements then you have to accept those agreements as a whole.

I have no problem with this as long as we agree a comprehensive solution under a BBF structure with safeguards.

I have no problem for any "BBF" or any "safeguards" for you, as long as every single refugee returns to his home, as long as the part controlled by TCs includes only areas that TCs are the legal majority, as long as our human and democratic rights are fully respected, as long as Settlers and the Turkish army leave from Cyprus, and as long as it is a true federation as it exists in all other federal states.
Until such "BBF" is agreed Republic of Cyprus remains the one and only legal thing that exists in Cyprus, and as long as you act against it and violate its sovergnity you will face consequences.