Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

So Piratis you have all the "legalities" on your side, you even have the popes blessing so what? doesn't change a thing, the TRNC still exists and you have to deal with it otherwise you will get nowhere. The 2 communities voted on the referendum without our and your vote there will be no solution simple as that.

Time you took stock and started to realize that we TCs matter just as much as you GCs and without a structure that will accommodate our/your concerns you will still be waiting for that swing for thousands of years to come, I still place my money on recognition arriving sooner.

Your call.

[Piratis]

So Piratis you have all the "legalities" on your side, you even have the popes blessing so what?

VP, your argument reminds me a kidnapper, that kidnaps a child and because he managed to get away with his crime a few months he calls the parents and says "So I keep your child illegally, so what? You can not take it from me anyways. So why don't you just give it legally to me, so the problem will be solved and I will not keep your child illegally anymore"

No VP, we are not going to gift to you the north part of our island because you managed to keep it illegally for a few decades (a very short amount of time compared to our long history).

If you can insist on illegality then be sure we can insist on legality.

A breakthrough can come only if 1) You decide to abandon your illegal stance, or 2) You are forced to abandon your illegal stance. Anything beyond that is a waste of time.

[bigOz]

I've not been able to follow the posts lately, but this one really put a smile on my face!

I know both Ali Erel and Damdelen very well and we spent a lot of time together in UK fighting for a united Cyprus during the turbulent 1970s. They were very sensible boys but blinded by their hopes and ambitions - so much so they had ultimate trust in GCs in almost in all areas of politics. Is there such a thing as "socialist" businessmen? I would not have thought so, but one has to give them a lot of credit for sticking to their beliefs even if it meant taking leading positions within the ranks of "petite-bourgeoisie" to fight for peace in Cyprus.

I smile because their rejection by the RoC might help them come off their high horses! There are those who cannot differentiate between "idealism" and "realism", and until they do, life will present them with many surprises. Expecting ECHR to back them up or to decide in their favour in this instance is just another idealistic futile move.

[Kifeas]

bigOz, why do you think that:
"Expecting ECHR to back them up or to decide in their favour in this instance is just another idealistic futile move?"

What makes you say the above? Is it because you believe the ECHR is not a "good" court? Is it because you think it is biased against the "Turkish Cypriots?"

Finally, what do you predict will be the final outcome, the decision so to say, of the court in this case?

[bigOz]

Must go noe will be in touch tomorrow - sorry!

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

VP, your argument reminds me a kidnapper, that kidnaps a child and because he managed to get away with his crime a few months he calls the parents and says "So I keep your child illegally, so what? You can not take it from me anyways. So why don't you just give it legally to me, so the problem will be solved and I will not keep your child illegally anymore"

What you conveniently forget is that child is also my mine not just yours, so I to have rights.

No VP, we are not going to gift to you the north part of our island because you managed to keep it illegally for a few decades (a very short amount of time compared to our long history).

No one is asking you to gift us the north, all we ask is for the right to run the north like you wish to run the whole island. Whats wrong with allowing everyone the right to settle north or south of the island to choose whether they wish to live under either GC or TC administration? what do you fear?

If you can insist on illegality then be sure we can insist on legality.

Insist on what ever you wish, your fixed viewpoint will bring you more of what you have had over the past 33 years, obviously you are happy as you are as you have no intention of compromising for a BBF.

A breakthrough can come only if 1) You decide to abandon your illegal stance, or 2) You are forced to abandon your illegal stance. Anything beyond that is a waste of time.

Or when you decide to see us TCs as equals not just as individuals but as a community only then will you be able to make any sort of progress until then you are doomed to wait for something that will never arive..good luck.

[Pyrpolizer]

Piratis

VP, your argument reminds me a kidnapper, that kidnaps a child and because he managed to get away with his crime a few months he calls the parents and says "So I keep your child illegally, so what? You can not take it from me anyways. So why don't you just give it legally to me, so the problem will be solved and I will not keep your child illegally anymore"

What you conveniently forget is that child is also my mine not just yours, so I to have rights.

No VP, we are not going to gift to you the north part of our island because you managed to keep it illegally for a few decades (a very short amount of time compared to our long history).

No one is asking you to gift us the north, all we ask is for the right to run the north like you wish to run the whole island. Whats wrong with allowing everyone the right to settle north or south of the island to choose whether they wish to live under either GC or TC administration? what do you fear?

If you can insist on illegality then be sure we can insist on legality.

Insist on what ever you wish, your fixed viewpoint will bring you more of what you have had over the past 33 years, obviously you are happy as you are as you have no intention of compromising for a BBF.

A breakthrough can come only if 1) You decide to abandon your illegal stance, or 2) You are forced to abandon your illegal stance. Anything beyond that is a waste of time.

Or when you decide to see us TCs as equals not just as individuals but as a community only then will you be able to make any sort of progress until then you are doomed to wait for something that will never arive..good luck.

Ahhhh the 50-50% game once again!! So what rights did you have on the properties of 180,000 GCs???

[Kifeas]

No one is asking you to gift us the north, all we ask is for the right to run the north like you wish to run the whole island. Whats wrong with allowing everyone the right to settle north or south of the island to choose whether they wish to live under either GC or TC administration? what do you fear?

VP is saying the following absurdity:

Everybody should be free to settle wherever they want in their country; however, the north will be under TC administration! What does this basically mean is that those GCs that will return back into the north, will have no democratic, political or constitutional rights to rule (or to participate in ruling) upon themselves; but only the TCs living in the north will do, and they will also be ruling upon the GCs too! Otherwise, how can VP’s notion that “the north should be under (exclusive) TC administration" may possibly ever hold water?

Yet, VP claims that what she is asking is not for the GCs to gift the north to the TCs!

Sorry VP, but things do not work in this way! The north, and the south, as well as the whole of Cyprus, should be under the administration of the people (the individuals) that legally and legitimately are the citizens and they live, work and pay taxes within each respective territory, state, province or country, and they should all have equal rights and obligations!

What you are asking is to take us back to the colonial times, or the years of the Ottoman or Venetian Empire, etc! These things (unfortunately for your neo-ottoman delusions,) have long gone and they are not coming back!

There is no place in Europe (perhaps there are today a few such backward places in Africa or in Asia) that is under the control or the administration of one single ethnic group or community, alone! The US for example, institutionally or constitutionally, is not under the rule, the control or the administration of the English or the Jewish "community," but under that of the American citizens! Same holds true for every single EU country or territory, state or province, within the EU!

[Piratis]

Why should TCs "run" areas that the legal majority is 5 times more GCs than TCs????

As I said before, if TCs want to run a separate area, that area can include only the villages that TCs are the legal majority. This is not something they have the right to, but something we could compromise for in order to have BBF, as long as TCs make compromises as well.

But TCs running areas that we are the majority, thats out of the question of course.

[Kifeas]

Why should TCs "run" areas that the legal majority is 5 times more GCs than TCs????

As I said before, if TCs want to run a separate area, that area can include only the villages that TCs are the legal majority. This is not something they have the right to, but something we could compromise for in order to have BBF, as long as TCs make compromises as well.

But TCs running areas that we are the majority, thats out of the question of course.

Piratis, you are making the same mistake that VP is doing! You are falling into the same absurd trap! In modern constitutional democracies, who "rules" and who "runs" a place, is not ethnic group(s,) but the people (the citizens) that live in the respective constituencies, regardless of their ethnic, cultural or religious backgrounds! There is no such a notion like "an ethnic element (community,) as such, should be ruling upon a constituency;" more so when this constituency is or will be of a multiethnic or a multicultural composition! Such an idea under the EU aqui, principles and values, is a non-existing one, and rightfully so!