Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

VP, I will not repeat what I said already.

The 1960 agreements is what we have today and Republic of Cyprus is the one and only legal thing that exists in Cyprus.
By violating the sovereignty of RoC you are acting illegally and criminally, and you will face consequences as a result.

If you want to make new agreements and scrap those of 1960, then the new agreement has to be better for us as well. Offer something which is better for us than the 1960 agreements and be sure we will accept it. Just trying to force us to give up our rights and our land by brute force is not going to work.

As far as the results of your illegalities go (settlers, hotels on GC land etc) they can be undone very easily. Thats what means solving the Cyprus problem after all. What kind of solution would it be if your illegalities are not undone?

[Pyrpolizer]

VP, read my first post in this thread. It answers all your questions.

Words are cheap. This is a case you will clearly loose because you have no human right for a separate electoral roll.

If you want your rights according to the 1960 agreements then you have to accept those agreements as a whole.

I have no problem with this as long as we agree a comprehensive solution under a BBF structure with safeguards.

I have no problem for any "BBF" or any "safeguards" for you, as long as every single refugee returns to his home, as long as the part controlled by TCs includes only areas that TCs are the legal majority, as long as our human and democratic rights are fully respected, as long as Settlers and the Turkish army leave from Cyprus, and as long as it is a true federation as it exists in all other federal states.
Until such "BBF" is agreed Republic of Cyprus remains the one and only legal thing that exists in Cyprus, and as long as you act against it and violate its sovergnity you will face consequences.

And we have no problem for any "BBF" or any "safe guards" for you, as long as you are justly made to return/pay back for what you have taken from my people for 44 years (and still are), as long as the status of our security and existence in Cyprus is strictly guaranteed by the principle of bizonality and not returned to what was our near-annihilation a few decades ago, as long as our fate is not placed into the hands of our agressor (who: locked us up in to enclaves and murdered us / brought upon us an ambargo that included even medical supplies / tried to hand this island over to Cyprus / still is in the business of Hellenizing Cyprus today), as long as we are assured that the central government will not be empowered to adopt any measures against our interests, as long as our part of the state is equals to have identical power and functions in governing ourselves, as long as the contitution of the central state can be approved or ammended only with our concurrence, as long as you are acknowledged and tretaed as nothing but ONE of the TWO communities, as long as all of the above are guaranteed by Turkey with any and all appropriate precautionary means necessary.

First you have to serve a prison sentense for the crimes you performed against the state and the GC refugees, then pay us rent for 33 years for using our properties, then get out of them, and then we will pay your claims.
Be sure not to get bankrupt in this process

[GreekForumer]

So the children of these settlers, people who have been here 33 years and those married to TCs should all go back as simple as that, again you are not being very methodical, will you also be sending back all those were born to Pontian Greeks and all those that became residents of the "RoC" after 1974? You have to be more compassionate and allow a criteria as per the EU you support so much. If you demand all settlers go back then will you also send all your foreigners back to where they came from?

Apples and Oranges!

Unlike the Pontians, the "settlers" brought over by Turkey are part of a WAR CRIME. Specifically, The 4th Geneva Convention (August 12th 1949) Section III Art. 49.

No ifs, no buts, no two ways about it. WAR CRIME!

The Turkish Government had been told from DAY 1 this transfer of Turks from the mainland is a WAR CRIME.

These "settlers" should explore the possibility of suing the Turkish Government for compensation.

And the resettlement can occur over a few years.

[Nikitas]

I dont like to borrow from ancient Greek texts, but the settler problem reminds me of Alexander facing the gordian knot, saying that bonds that cannot be untied are cut.

When it comes to settlers I am ruthless- send them home. Compensate them and send them home. They did not materialise from thin air, they have a place to go to. Those that married Cypriots get to stay. ALL OTHERS, whether born here or not go home. And that includes people in the south as well as the north.

We have hundreds of thousands of expatriate Cypriots of all communities who can be given incentives to come live on the island or invest here. They should have priority before any settler or opportunist immigrant. This is not a usual immigration issue with all the attendand humanitarian concerns, it is part of a settlement of a long standing political problem that has caused bloodshed amongst Cypriots. In a settement Cypriots must come first and the devil take the hindmost.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

The 1960 agreements is what we have today and Republic of Cyprus is the one and only legal thing that exists in Cyprus.
By violating the sovereignty of RoC you are acting illegally and criminally, and you will face consequences as a result.

If you havent noticed the "RoC" is not recognized by a large percentage of TCs who are part and parcel of this island, due to the past they feel the 1960 agreements will not be sufficent to ensure a united future, add to this people like yourself from the south who also believe that the 1960 agreements need to be updated to 2007 norms and you have a majority of people who feel that using the 1960 agreements to unite will not work and we will fail yet again at a higher cost. Your empty threats of us paying the consequencies fall on death ears, feel free to do you worst whenever you wish but dont expect us to take it quitely, we to will fight back with everything we have and in the past we had a lost less.

Why not take the opportunity to apply pressure on your leaders to negotiate with sincerity into creating a 2 state BBF as rubber stamped by the UN, EU and international community, even your own leaders pay lip service to this ideology but I have my doubts as to whether they truely subscribe to it as they already have 90% of what they want and maybe thats why they are stalling without real enthusiasm about bring this matter to a close. If its our side holding up the process dont you feel its questionable when your side does zilch to use the UN and EU to expose this to everyone? You need to ask more questions about your own side and their real motives for not taking more positive action to bring the 2 sides together but continue to stubbornly push us further apart.

If you want to make new agreements and scrap those of 1960, then the new agreement has to be better for us as well. Offer something which is better for us than the 1960 agreements and be sure we will accept it. Just trying to force us to give up our rights and our land by brute force is not going to work.

Im all for making it better for everyone on this island but we have to come to terms with the facts before us, nothing is text book and neither side will 100% of they want, when will you realize this as you seem lecking in this area your whole approach is very rigid and inhumane.

As far as the results of your illegalities go (settlers, hotels on GC land etc) they can be undone very easily. Thats what means solving the Cyprus problem after all. What kind of solution would it be if your illegalities are not undone?

How? your idea of solving matters is sending all settlers whether they have lived here all their lives back to Turkey and knocking down millions of dollars worth of investment just so refugees can get their land back, surely they could buy a much better property with the money they will be paid for their property to which they will probably never return. You have to be practicle otherwise you will end up where you are to day with the Cyprus issue, nowhere.

[Viewpoint]

So the children of these settlers, people who have been here 33 years and those married to TCs should all go back as simple as that, again you are not being very methodical, will you also be sending back all those were born to Pontian Greeks and all those that became residents of the "RoC" after 1974? You have to be more compassionate and allow a criteria as per the EU you support so much. If you demand all settlers go back then will you also send all your foreigners back to where they came from?

Apples and Oranges!

Unlike the Pontians, the "settlers" brought over by Turkey are part of a WAR CRIME. Specifically, The 4th Geneva Convention (August 12th 1949) Section III Art. 49.

No ifs, no buts, no two ways about it. WAR CRIME!

The Turkish Government had been told from DAY 1 this transfer of Turks from the mainland is a WAR CRIME.

These "settlers" should explore the possibility of suing the Turkish Government for compensation.

And the resettlement can occur over a few years.

Its ok for droves of Pontians to come settle but not for Turks, isnt this being hypocritical one set of rules for GCs and another for TCs, if you agree to all new residents plus offspring coming to Cyprus after 1974 in on both sides being kicked out then the Turkish settlers can also go, but on humane grounds I say we should allow them to stay using EU criteria.

[Piratis]

VP, you confuse "negotiations" with "blackmail".

Negotiations means that you respect the 100% of our rights (and in return we respect the 100% of yours) and then we negotiate to see if it is possible to agree on something that is better for both. If we can not come to such agreement, then it means that something does not exist, and therefore nothing can change.

Blackmail on the other hand, which is what you do, is to grab illegally what does not belong to you, and then keeping it as a hostage and demanding that either all your demands are met, or you continue with illegalities.

See the difference?

So stop your crimes and illegalities, and then we can negotiate and search to see if there is something that is better for both of us without blackmails.

Your idea of a "solution" that more or less means that you legalize your illegalities is something that will never be accepted by us, so forget about it.

You acted in an inhumane way when you ethnically cleansed GCs and replaced with Settlers. So don't tell me that I am inhumane because I want to reverse your criminal illegal actions.

Its ok for droves of Pontians to come settle but not for Turks, isnt this being hypocritical one set of rules for GCs and another for TCs, if you agree to all new residents plus offspring coming to Cyprus after 1974 in on both sides being kicked out then the Turkish settlers can also go, but on humane grounds I say we should allow them to stay using EU criteria.

The pontians are in Cyprus since they are Greek (EU) citizens. When Turkey enters the EU then Turks can also come legally. Right now they are illegally in Cyprus and they were brought here to change the democraphics of our island without the agreements of the Cyprus government.

So Pontians in Cyprus = legal
Turks in Cyprus = illegal

Big difference.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

VP, you confuse "negotiations" with "blackmail".

Our starting points may differ but if we agree on what we want and how to get there then surely the result is more important.

Negotiations means that you respect the 100% of our rights (and in return we respect the 100% of yours) and then we negotiate to see if it is possible to agree on something that is better for both. If we can not come to such agreement, then it means that something does not exist, and therefore nothing can change.

I will of course respects your rights as long as you do not want to make me something I do not want to do, or brush me to one side, is that ok with you?

Blackmail on the other hand, which is what you do, is to grab illegally what does not belong to you, and then keeping it as a hostage and demanding that either all your demands are met, or you continue with illegalities.

If we get into this arguement we will go nowhere fast, we have accept the realities of today and try tomove forward otherwise we will continue as we are, both sides have something the otherside wants why not share it equally and fairly where no one is forced to do anything they do not want.

So stop your crimes and illegalities, and then we can negotiate and search to see if there is something that is better for both of us without blackmails.

So you are asking me to get rid of my protector? are you being serious, no one in their right mind would tell their protector to leave unless they felt they are not at risk and for now you even asking this tells me we are nowhere near safe nor are you to be trusted, we will no expose ourselves in this manner, once everything has been agreed they can go.

Your idea of a "solution" that more or less means that you legalize your illegalities is something that will never be accepted by us, so forget about it.

You have fixed this into your brain and anything ı say will not change this you demand i surrender to the mercy of GCs and become a minority like the Indians in the UK well I will not do this you have to think again or settle for the status quo you have today.

You acted in an inhumane way when you ethnically cleansed GCs and replaced with Settlers. So don't tell me that I am inhumane because I want to reverse your criminal illegal actions.

I personally did not do this and had no control over it but you have admited that this was part the GCs fault, you shoudl have asked for what you asking for then without wanting to unite with Greece but we have been over that a thousand times and we will never agree. All I can deal with humanely are people today, as I believe Gcs should have the right to their properties I also believe some settlers should be allowed to stay.

The pontians are in Cyprus since they are Greek (EU) citizens. When Turkey enters the EU then Turks can also come legally. Right now they are illegally in Cyprus and they were brought here to change the democraphics of our island without the agreements of the Cyprus government.

So Pontians in Cyprus = legal
Turks in Cyprus = illegal

Big difference.

As I said one rule for GCs another for TCs,let all wait for Turkey to enter the EU in order to resolve the settlers issue, that OK with you?

[Piratis]

VP, all I ask is for our rights, and in return to give you your rights. Do you have a problem with that?

If you do not accept to give us back our rights, then there is no reason to discuss anything, since there is no possibility we will accept anything that will violate our rights, as I am sure you would accept nothing that would violate yours.

So, give us back our rights, take yours, and then without blackmails and illegalities we can negotiate and see if there is something better for both sides.

If you do not accept legalities, thats nothing new. You are just being the usual Turks. But we will not drop to your level, sorry.

[Viewpoint]

VP, all I ask is for our rights, and in return to give you your rights. Do you have a problem with that?

If you do not accept to give us back our rights, then there is no reason to discuss anything, since there is no possibility we will accept anything that will violate our rights, as I am sure you would accept nothing that would violate yours.

So, give us back our rights, take yours, and then without blackmails and illegalities we can negotiate and see if there is something better for both sides.

If you do not accept legalities, thats nothing new. You are just being the usual Turks. But we will not drop to your level, sorry.

Do you understand English? what I am saying is that all of what you want and I want will be incorporated in a comprehensive solution, why is this so difficult for you to comprehend, we tried to negotiate from 1963 to 1974 and got nowhere thats why the composition of Cyprus took a drastic change to partition, you still appear to be one of those GCs in denial..we will not weaken our position and be reduced to a postion where you are able to manipulate us into minority status, I for one would prefer the current situation forever than allow GCs full control of this island without BBF where TCs can administer themselves in their own designated area and with federal representation where Gcs canot force us to do anything that will effect our state negatively. Without these fundamentals you will be waiting around for that swing in power for a very long time to come, I still put my money on us being recognized before you get your power to blow us TCs to kingdom come.