Cyprus-Forum.com

[Murataga]

VP, read my first post in this thread. It answers all your questions.

Words are cheap. This is a case you will clearly loose because you have no human right for a separate electoral roll.

If you want your rights according to the 1960 agreements then you have to accept those agreements as a whole.

I have no problem with this as long as we agree a comprehensive solution under a BBF structure with safeguards.

I have no problem for any "BBF" or any "safeguards" for you, as long as every single refugee returns to his home, as long as the part controlled by TCs includes only areas that TCs are the legal majority, as long as our human and democratic rights are fully respected, as long as Settlers and the Turkish army leave from Cyprus, and as long as it is a true federation as it exists in all other federal states.
Until such "BBF" is agreed Republic of Cyprus remains the one and only legal thing that exists in Cyprus, and as long as you act against it and violate its sovergnity you will face consequences.

And we have no problem for any "BBF" or any "safe guards" for you, as long as you are justly made to return/pay back for what you have taken from my people for 44 years (and still are), as long as the status of our security and existence in Cyprus is strictly guaranteed by the principle of bizonality and not returned to what was our near-annihilation a few decades ago, as long as our fate is not placed into the hands of our agressor (who: locked us up in to enclaves and murdered us / brought upon us an ambargo that included even medical supplies / tried to hand this island over to Cyprus / still is in the business of Hellenizing Cyprus today), as long as we are assured that the central government will not be empowered to adopt any measures against our interests, as long as our part of the state is equals to have identical power and functions in governing ourselves, as long as the contitution of the central state can be approved or ammended only with our concurrence, as long as you are acknowledged and tretaed as nothing but ONE of the TWO communities, as long as all of the above are guaranteed by Turkey with any and all appropriate precautionary means necessary.

[Nikitas]

Murataga,

Does this equality stretch to cover the other non Greek and non Turkish communities of the island, or is it limited only to Turkish Cypriots?

[Kifeas]

VP, read my first post in this thread. It answers all your questions.

Words are cheap. This is a case you will clearly loose because you have no human right for a separate electoral roll.

If you want your rights according to the 1960 agreements then you have to accept those agreements as a whole.

I have no problem with this as long as we agree a comprehensive solution under a BBF structure with safeguards.

I have no problem for any "BBF" or any "safeguards" for you, as long as every single refugee returns to his home, as long as the part controlled by TCs includes only areas that TCs are the legal majority, as long as our human and democratic rights are fully respected, as long as Settlers and the Turkish army leave from Cyprus, and as long as it is a true federation as it exists in all other federal states.
Until such "BBF" is agreed Republic of Cyprus remains the one and only legal thing that exists in Cyprus, and as long as you act against it and violate its sovergnity you will face consequences.

And we have no problem for any "BBF" or any "safe guards" for you, as long as you are justly made to return/pay back for what you have taken from my people for 44 years (and still are), as long as the status of our security and existence in Cyprus is strictly guaranteed by the principle of bizonality and not returned to what was our near-annihilation a few decades ago, as long as our fate is not placed into the hands of our agressor (who: locked us up in to enclaves and murdered us / brought upon us an ambargo that included even medical supplies / tried to hand this island over to Cyprus / still is in the business of Hellenizing Cyprus today), as long as we are assured that the central government will not be empowered to adopt any measures against our interests, as long as our part of the state is equals to have identical power and functions in governing ourselves, as long as the contitution of the central state can be approved or ammended only with our concurrence, as long as you are acknowledged and tretaed as nothing but ONE of the TWO communities, as long as all of the above are guaranteed by Turkey with any and all appropriate precautionary means necessary.

Anything else you want Murataga, or is this the end of the ...list?

Murataga, it is more than obvious from your above "shopping list," but equally importantly from the tone and manner by which it was “rattled off,” that you do not want an agreed solution to the Cyprus issue, nevertheless not one that will reinstate Cyprus into a single, democratic, sovereign and independed nation-state! Since what you essentially want is partition, so that you will not have to deal with your “aggressors;” why don’t you or your side propose such a solution to us, by indicating also on a map which 18% of the island you wish to keep for your community? What "holds" you back? Is it your "secret" wish and hope to eventually manage to grab the whole 37% that Turkey illegally occupies since 1974?

[Piratis]

Murataga, no matter how much you lie it can not change the truth. You killed 10s of thousands of Cypriots, you ethnically cleansed almost every real Cypriot from the north part of our country and replaced them with yet more foreign Turkish settlers, you destroyed our churches, changed the names of our villages to Turkish ones and then you say that we are the ones who tried to annihilate you?? You are the biggest joke ever.

Your conditions are rejected and therefore you remain the criminals who illegally occupy part of our country and violate the sovereignty of our country. We will talk again when we will be finally liberating Cyprus from the invading Turks.

[Kifeas]

Murataga,

Does this equality stretch to cover the other non Greek and non Turkish communities of the island, or is it limited only to Turkish Cypriots?

Obviously, due to the "fact" that Murataga is a member of that “upper caste” of Cypriots, i.e. those that “one of them equals the whole world;” he is "entitled" to only accept a solution, one that will first have to pass the majority of Cypriot people -the “lower caste” of the "untouchables" so to say, from the “procrustean bed” of his community ("caste!")

[Sotos]

as long as you are justly made to return/pay back for what you have taken from my people for 44 years

You took 1/3 of our country and you say that WE took from you and that WE should pay back? You fool! You would have to pay millions to me alone for keeping my property illegally all these years!! Fucking thieves!

[Viewpoint]

VP, read my first post in this thread. It answers all your questions.

Words are cheap. This is a case you will clearly loose because you have no human right for a separate electoral roll.

If you want your rights according to the 1960 agreements then you have to accept those agreements as a whole.

I have no problem with this as long as we agree a comprehensive solution under a BBF structure with safeguards.

I have no problem for any "BBF" or any "safeguards" for you, as long as every single refugee returns to his home, as long as the part controlled by TCs includes only areas that TCs are the legal majority, as long as our human and democratic rights are fully respected, as long as Settlers and the Turkish army leave from Cyprus, and as long as it is a true federation as it exists in all other federal states.
Until such "BBF" is agreed Republic of Cyprus remains the one and only legal thing that exists in Cyprus, and as long as you act against it and violate its sovergnity you will face consequences.

So what in fact you are saying is that we have to give up our rights via the 1960 agreements and place our future in the hands of 80% GCs?

How will every refugee return home when their hımes are no longer where they used to be, this ideology is something that has been sold to you by your leaders in order to get you guys toeing the line and wrongly believing this in fact possible.

So what you propose is that the TC administered area should be 18% and even then this should be scattered all over Cyprus, am I right?

You also feel settlers should all be sent back even those who were born and married here? will you split families up?

The army can go no problem as long as your goes as well.

BBF like Belgium? or Serbia & Montenegro? see there are many types of federations you choose those that suit only your community. Do you still not understand that we do not want to be ruled by GCs alone, we want to have a say in our own future but knowing the biased and racists view of the majority of GCs TCs would not stand a chance in hell of ever getting voted into power, therefore we would be brushed to one side and left to the mercy of Gcs looking for revenge for 1974.

[Get Real!]

as long as you are justly made to return/pay back for what you have taken from my people for 44 years (and still are),

Why don't you post a list of all the things the RoC owes you and we'll take it from there...

[Piratis]

So what in fact you are saying is that we have to give up our rights via the 1960 agreements and place our future in the hands of 80% GCs?

No. What I am saying is that you can have the 100% of your rights as long as you give to us the 100% of ours.

How will every refugee return home when their hımes are no longer where they used to be, this ideology is something that has been sold to you by your leaders in order to get you guys toeing the line and wrongly believing this in fact possible.

It is very possible. Did the land sink? Unless that happened, and as long as GCs have the legal rights to it then why not? Because some thieves will loose from their illegal investment? They should be glad they will avoid jail.

So what you propose is that the TC administered area should be 18% and even then this should be scattered all over Cyprus, am I right?

What I said is that TCs could administer the areas that they are the legal majority and not areas that the legal majority is made up by GCs.

You also feel settlers should all be sent back even those who were born and married here? will you split families up?

Why split them up? They will all go to Turkey where they belong and be together there. When in 1974 you illegally ethnically cleansed all the GCs from the now occupied areas it was something that you excused, and now that we will enforce legality by sending those Settlers back to Turkey you can not excuse it?

The army can go no problem as long as your goes as well.

If you mean about ELDYK, yes sure. But of course Cyprus needs to have its own army to protect itself like every other country. There is nothing wrong or illegal in this.

BBF like Belgium? or Serbia & Montenegro? see there are many types of federations you choose those that suit only your community.

Serbia and Montenegro are already two separate countries and Belgium is heading that way. There are many other Federations to choose: USA, Russia, Germany etc. Why should it be the ones you like (which are those that collapsed or are about to) and not those that we like? If we don't agree, then the 1960 agreements remain the only legal thing which you are obligated to respect.

Do you still not understand that we do not want to be ruled by GCs alone, we want to have a say in our own future but knowing the biased and racists view of the majority of GCs TCs would not stand a chance in hell of ever getting voted into power, therefore we would be brushed to one side and left to the mercy of Gcs looking for revenge for 1974.

And I want to have the billions of Bill Gates.

It is not about what you want. Your "wants" can be unlimited. Your wants can not go over our rights.

So you take what you have the rights to take, and we take what we have the right to take.

The only thing you (and we) have the right to is the 1960 agreements. To have the right for anything else we have to agree to it first, and we will not if it is not better for us as well.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis thank you for answering my questions in a manner which reveals quite clearly that you wish to return to the situation pre 1974 which was not a good time for us as you well know, how about I suggest we return to the Ottoman era would you be happy with that? If you support the 1960 agreements so much then why do you want to change them to dilute our rights and strengthen yours? These agreements didn't work back then and I agree with you to a certain extent are not really valid in 2007 but saying this we need to find an alternative agreement/solution to replace them where it will address all our concerns like for example the AP which you rejected fır not giving you 100% of what you wanted.

Let me respond to your points,

No. What I am saying is that you can have the 100% of your rights as long as you give to us the 100% of ours.

Would this be 100% of my rights diluted version and 100% of your rights where you have all the control to rule without a political balance and safeguards? I want you to have your rights and freedom to live where ever you wish but I also want have say in my own future but due to the imbalance I would not stand a chance in hell of ever being elected due to the racists and biased views of Cypriots from both sides.

It is very possible. Did the land sink? Unless that happened, and as long as GCs have the legal rights to it then why not? Because some thieves will loose from their illegal investment? They should be glad they will avoid jail.

So lets clarify this the according to you the new Artmeis hotel should be given to the GC owner and the investors should be told to go to hell, I can understand you asking for current value compensation but asking for the land being returned is wishing for the impossible and as we all know it will never happen so what is the point asking for it? Imho the GC should be amply compensated so he can go and buy where ever he wishes, isn't this a better solution for all parties concerned?

What I said is that TCs could administer the areas that they are the legal majority and not areas that the legal majority is made up by GCs.

Please be more specific, are you saying everyone returns to their villages as per 1974? and we return to village/local administration? are you being serious?

Why split them up? They will all go to Turkey where they belong and be together there. When in 1974 you illegally ethnically cleansed all the GCs from the now occupied areas it was something that you excused, and now that we will enforce legality by sending those Settlers back to Turkey you can not excuse it?

So the children of these settlers, people who have been here 33 years and those married to TCs should all go back as simple as that, again you are not being very methodical, will you also be sending back all those were born to Pontian Greeks and all those that became residents of the "RoC" after 1974? You have to be more compassionate and allow a criteria as per the EU you support so much. If you demand all settlers go back then will you also send all your foreigners back to where they came from?

If you mean about ELDYK, yes sure. But of course Cyprus needs to have its own army to protect itself like every other country. There is nothing wrong or illegal in this.

It is also not illegal not to have any army.

Serbia and Montenegro are already two separate countries and Belgium is heading that way. There are many other Federations to choose: USA, Russia, Germany etc. Why should it be the ones you like (which are those that collapsed or are about to) and not those that we like? If we don't agree, then the 1960 agreements remain the only legal thing which you are obligated to respect.

I provided those examples specifically so that you can see there are many types of Federations to suit the situation we have to meet somewhere in the middle, but this is something you do not want, you are so rigid in your views that you will get what you want.

And I want to have the billions of Bill Gates.

It is not about what you want. Your "wants" can be unlimited. Your wants can not go over our rights.

So you take what you have the rights to take, and we take what we have the right to take.

The only thing you (and we) have the right to is the 1960 agreements. To have the right for anything else we have to agree to it first, and we will not if it is not better for us as well.

So you are saying I have no right to have say in my future and rule myself and that I have to accept the GC majority rule without safeguards against domination and problems as the Turks in Thrace and the Kurds in Turkey, you have to accept us as equal partners and change your views if you want a united Cyprus, otherwise you are doomed for more of the same and waiting for that swing in power that will allow to crush us out of sight and rule the whole island as a GC state for GCs.