Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bill]

I went to a government office in Larnaca last Friday to pick up an application form for a ID card ~ I couldn't help noticing the three cars parked outside with trnc number plates ~ sure enough there were three large families filling forms in for ROC ID cards ~~ I managed to get my application form amongst all the shouting and left.

Monday I took the completed form in and joined the queue behind another couple of families of TC's before I was eventually seen ~ answered a few questions had my photo taken ~ paid my £5 and was told to come back the next day .

Arrived there today and the place is packed out with TC's claiming ROC cards ~ I eventually got mine and couldn't help asking the lady if this is a regular occurrence ~~ her reply " we used to get the odd TC family before we joined the EU and then since 2004 it's got a little more busy but for the last 18 months the waiting room has been full virtually every day .

So my question is WHY are so many TC's hell bent on getting ROC ID's if they are so happy with living under Turkish rule in their own part of Cyprus .

Is it the freedom to travel and work abroad with a ROC card / the free medical care or the possibility of a ROC pension or benefits that is the driving factor in this rush for ROC cards.

I could understand the situation if I bumped into the odd TC during my three visits but the place being packed out on all three occasions has surprised me .

I expect that zan and vp will have a logical answer to this ~ and please don't answer why shouldn't they have a ROC card as that won't answer the question for obvious reasons

Bill ~~~ now the proud owner of a ROC ID card

[raymanuva]

same in Ministry of Interior in Nicosia... lots of TC applying for Passports etc...

[CopperLine]

Isn't the answer to this that there are huge advantages to being an EU citizen but which are effectively denied or restricted to TC citizens. The most effective way of having those EU-defined rights, to which TCs are fully entitled (the RoC is the state member admitted to the EU claiming to represent the whole island and all Cypriots), is to have RoC citizenship and passport.

[webbo]

Isn't the answer to this that there are huge advantages to being an EU citizen but which are effectively denied or restricted to TC citizens. The most effective way of having those EU-defined rights, to which[u] TCs are fully entitled (the RoC is the state member admitted to the EU claiming to represent the whole island and all Cypriots)[/u], is to have RoC citizenship and passport.

Will this make any difference once Turkey itself joins the E.U.?

Bx

[Kifeas]

I went to a government office in Larnaca last Friday to pick up an application form for a ID card ~ I couldn't help noticing the three cars parked outside with trnc number plates ~ sure enough there were three large families filling forms in for ROC ID cards ~~ I managed to get my application form amongst all the shouting and left.

Monday I took the completed form in and joined the queue behind another couple of families of TC's before I was eventually seen ~ answered a few questions had my photo taken ~ paid my £5 and was told to come back the next day .

Arrived there today and the place is packed out with TC's claiming ROC cards ~ I eventually got mine and couldn't help asking the lady if this is a regular occurrence ~~ her reply " we used to get the odd TC family before we joined the EU and then since 2004 it's got a little more busy but for the last 18 months the waiting room has been full virtually every day .

So my question is WHY are so many TC's hell bent on getting ROC ID's if they are so happy with living under Turkish rule in their own part of Cyprus .

Is it the freedom to travel and work abroad with a ROC card / the free medical care or the possibility of a ROC pension or benefits that is the driving factor in this rush for ROC cards.

I could understand the situation if I bumped into the odd TC during my three visits but the place being packed out on all three occasions has surprised me .

I expect that zan and vp will have a logical answer to this ~ and please don't answer why shouldn't they have a ROC card as that won't answer the question for obvious reasons

Bill ~~~ now the proud owner of a ROC ID card

Bill, the right question you should have asked is why aren't these TC people getting killed by the GCs, as soon as they cross into the south?

Isn't the reason Turkey invaded and still occupies the northern part of Cyprus, in order to save the lives of the TCs from an immanent GC onslaught? They call it annihilation, if you do not remember! Their propaganda teaches them that for 11 years before 1974, from 1963 until 1974 when Turkey came and saved them, we had being contacting an on going annihilation campaign against them, that is why the had to be moved into the occupied north, so that they are safe from the GC butchers!

[Jerry]

Could it be that some are using EU citizenship to emigrate. This is a serious question, can anyone in the north tell us if the number of Turkish Cypriots leaving the island is increasing or conversely are ex-pat TCs returning to Cyprus?

[zan]

I went to a government office in Larnaca last Friday to pick up an application form for a ID card ~ I couldn't help noticing the three cars parked outside with trnc number plates ~ sure enough there were three large families filling forms in for ROC ID cards ~~ I managed to get my application form amongst all the shouting and left.

Monday I took the completed form in and joined the queue behind another couple of families of TC's before I was eventually seen ~ answered a few questions had my photo taken ~ paid my £5 and was told to come back the next day .

Arrived there today and the place is packed out with TC's claiming ROC cards ~ I eventually got mine and couldn't help asking the lady if this is a regular occurrence ~~ her reply " we used to get the odd TC family before we joined the EU and then since 2004 it's got a little more busy but for the last 18 months the waiting room has been full virtually every day .

So my question is WHY are so many TC's hell bent on getting ROC ID's if they are so happy with living under Turkish rule in their own part of Cyprus .

Is it the freedom to travel and work abroad with a ROC card / the free medical care or the possibility of a ROC pension or benefits that is the driving factor in this rush for ROC cards.

I could understand the situation if I bumped into the odd TC during my three visits but the place being packed out on all three occasions has surprised me .

I expect that zan and vp will have a logical answer to this ~ and please don't answer why shouldn't they have a ROC card as that won't answer the question for obvious reasons

Bill ~~~ now the proud owner of a ROC ID card

Bill, the right question you should have asked is why aren't these TC people getting killed by the GCs, as soon as they cross into the south?

Isn't the reason Turkey invaded and still occupies the northern part of Cyprus, in order to save the lives of the TCs from an immanent GC onslaught? They call it annihilation, if you do not remember! Their propaganda teaches them that for 11 years before 1974, from 1963 until 1974 when Turkey came and saved them, we had being contacting an on going annihilation campaign against them, that is why the had to be moved into the occupied north, so that they are safe from the GC butchers!

Not any moore...It is to ensure that we get our rigts back as under the Zurich agreement or one that is similar.

[pantheman]

Isn't the answer to this that there are huge advantages to being an EU citizen but which are effectively denied or restricted to TC citizens. The most effective way of having those EU-defined rights, to which TCs are fully entitled (the RoC is the state member admitted to the EU claiming to represent the whole island and all Cypriots), is to have RoC citizenship and passport.

Welcome back my biased friend, the TCs are welcome to the benefits of the EU, but not only when it suits them. Remember poor mr apostolides, was told by the UK court that the aqui was suspended in the north. Remember that the GC are the ones DENIED their rights to their properties by the illegall occupying forces. Why do you say that the TCs are the ones being denied everything?

They get more benefits (for free, no contributions) than the average GC.

Seems they only want the benefits of the EU, with nothing in return.

I am not saying their are not entitled to any benefits, but its a two way street right, they get and they have to give too, or is that to difficult a concept for you to understand.

On the same subject, the TCs always claiming economic isolation blah blah blah, just take a look at there cars when they come over mainly mercs, top of the range models, someone is sure as hell making money and if thats what they call isolation , well let me have some too!.

How dare you say "but which are effectively denied or restricted to TC citizens. " when you know full well that the GC are held hostage in their own country. Talk about being biased, you are leaning horizontal in the TC favour. Oh yes i forgot from our previous, you are a TC with a middle of the road type name to pretend you are impartial to any side.

You know what i am talking about.

[Pyrpolizer]

It's nice to get benefits, that settlers CAN'T.

[CopperLine]

Pantheman,
For good or for bad, rights don't work in the way you describe them, nor - thank goodness - is it up to you (or me) who holds rights.

The simple story is this :
1. The RoC claims the sovereignty over the whole island and over all Cypriots, and it is on that basis that it applied for and was granted EU membership.
2. That basis of membership necessarily includes Cypriots in the north (not settlers, but TCs). By virtue of that inclusion, Turkish Cypriots became eligible, in principle, to be EU citizens.
3. Since the TRNC claims sovereignty over the north and because that claim is rejected by almost all and sundry, the writ of the EU does not extend to the territory i.e, the acquis communitaire does not extend to the north.
4. However TCs are EU citizens, but can only exercise their rights where the EU's writ applies i.e, not in the north, therefore they can only enjoy the rights of EU citizenship if (a) they have EU citizenship (hence RoC applications) and (b) they are invoked outside the north.

The irony is that many, though I don't know if all, EU states allow the holding of dual nationality, citizenship and passports. TCs therefore like millions of other EU citizens, can hold citizenship in an EU state without having to renounce their citizenship of another state.

First, getting back to your complaint, Pantheman, that it has to be "a two way street" - no it is not; rights and the law don't work like that. We don't say "one for you, one for me. One more for me 'cos you forfeit one." Rights aren't a trade.
Second, why should average Jo TC be required to forfeit his/her citizens' rights because of the alleged illegalities of a government (especially on your claim, a foreign government or foreign-imposed government) ?

Third, since TCs are EU citizens - by virtue of the RoC sovereign respresentation of all Cypriots - it seems perfectly reasonable and accurate to say that currently the rights of TCs as EU citizens 'are effectively denied or restricted'. That is a statement of fact.

Fourth, that TCs drive Mercs or anything else is totally irrelevant. If you want to "have some too", move north. It is as hard, in fact harder to earn enough for a Merc as it is in the south or anywhere else in Europe.

Fifth, me 'biased' ? me 'a TC' ? me 'middle of the road' ? me 'impartial' ? All descriptions you've used of me. None have I used.

Sixth, that the rights of GCs have been abused is undeniable. But it is a basic principle of law that you've got to identify the perpetrator of a particular harm or abuser of a right. It just isn't going to stick to wave your arms in the air and say 'that lot did it !' Which lot ? Who ? Name them ? Which specific harm ? Which specific loss ? Which specific abuse ? All of that is difficult and protracted in law, and arguably that's why people try to shortcut the process by turning to politics which uses a broad tar brush aganist all and sundry.

Sixth, 'you know what I'm taking about' ? You've completely lost me there, sorry.[/i]