Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

cannedmoose, I've got it m8

[metecyp]

flowers??? i think you can do better than that.

This was just a suggestion, magikthrill. I didn't mean anyone to take it seriously. I just wanted to point out that instead of arguing about if Grivas is a hero or if Ataturk is better than Grivas, we can get the job done by simply using universally neutral names like flower names or tree names. Since you live in the US, you also know that tree names (Elm, Cedar, etc.) are used as street names, so I'm totally crazy here.

i think both communities want to live together but this shouldnt have to require stripping their ethnic identity.

Nobody asking for stripping ethnic identity. For example, I don't have any problem with Lefkosa being called Lefkosia in Greek but I have a problem with, say Grivas street in Limassol and I would imagine that a GC wouldn't like Ecevit street in Kyrenia. I was talking about removing these types of names not any Greek/Turkish name.

The city/village names should keep their original names no matter if its Greek or Turkish. The places that historically (and not just during the last 30 years) had 2 names, they they can keep both names.

As you know many village names were Turkified in the north (which I don't agree with by the way). Some villages have 3 names now, one original Greek name, one original Turkish name (I should say semi-Turkish because most of the times these names were closer to Greek than Turkish) and the new Turkish name after 1974. My suggestion is the following. After a solution, ask the residents of the village what Turkish and Greek names they prefer and that will be the name of the village. It's that simple. But I think this is a post-solution problem because it will be weird to start calling Guzelyurt Morphou when no GCs live there at the moment. If Guzelyurt is given back to GCs in a solution, then the GC residents can decide what to call it.

[Piratis]

Are you honestly saying this, or trying to make DESI and EDEK sympathizers to reveal their attitudes about Grivas?

Atatürk was not involved with the Cyprus problem in any direct way. Personally I get much more bothered with Grivas street names rather I would get with Atatürk street name.

By the way, when you talk about Grivas and EOKA B, DEDI and EDEK have nothing to do with each other. DESI has many former Eoka B members. On the other hand EDEK has many of the people that resisted the coup, and they were always against EOKA B.

[insan]

Sorry Pirati, actually I meant the other part of DESI which split a while ago; not EDEK.

[insan]

Isn't this much better than trying to convince a GC fanatic that Ataturk is better than Grivas?

Sure, it is; metecyp however there's other side of the medallion as well... Convincing majority of both communities to compromise on this....

[MicAtCyp]

Personally what disturbed the most the one and only time I went to the occupied areas like a "tourist" in my own country, is the statue on the round about by the entrance of Famagusta. Man it was a dark black thing something like a huge pile of worms mixed with roten shit filling up the whole small roundabout giving an ugly taste to all the area. If I remember correctly it was a war monument. I am not sure if i disliked it for it's terrible artistic uglyness, or for it's huge size relative to the area or for the fact that it was a war monument or for all of that.
By the way I also dislike the statue of Makarios that they placed in front of Archibishopic. Huge relative to the place, terrible in artistic value.

Regarding Ataturk (=father of the Turks - - this is not his real name is it, I mean his real name is Mustafa Kemal) , well I know a lot about him, I can appreciate he was a great reformer, however I am not that blind to know he was not exactly what Insan and the rest of the TC friends in here are brainwashed to beleive he was. Besides I don't really care.

When I was in the Gulf they used to give names to only a handful of their old city avenues. The rest were just taking numbers. A mailing address could for example be all numbers like this:
Insan - 456 - 234 - 21 - 750 (Nicosia)
This meant block number 456, street number 234, house number 21, town number 750
The funny thing is that with this numbering system it was so easy to spot the exact location you wanted to go, and you never needed maps or anything. Blocks starting with 1 were on the east with 2 south, with 3 west, with 4 north. Then the next 2 numbers 1 is the closest to the center 99 the one furthest away. . . .

[insan]

however I am not that blind to know he was not exactly what Insan and the rest of the TC friends in here are brainwashed to beleive he was.

As usual, we are all brain-washed creatures you are the twin of God knowing the absolute truth. Clap! Clap! Clap!

[metecyp]

As usual, we are all brain-washed creatures you are the twin of God knowing the absolute truth. Clap! Clap! Clap!

I was going to say the same thing. Where do GCs get the idea that we're brain-washed? Anything that we disagree with them makes us brain-washed or what? What makes you (MicAtCyp) not brain-washed? I'm really getting sick of this attitude.

[cannedmoose]

From what I've seen of school text-books from both sides (although I haven't seen the new version of TC text books which are apparently more balanced), there's an awful lot of ATTEMPTED brain-washing going on.

However, in my experience speaking to friends from both communities, it's not an entirely successful policy. With the numbers of GC and TC's who go abroad to study comes a realisation that many of the facts they are taught are actually fabrications of the truth and greater scepticism of what their leaders say. I think it's more difficult for those who have been in the army as, from all accounts there is a concerted attempt to brainwash recruits from day one (correct me if your experience is different).

But to generically label everyone as brainwashed is not correct, and particularly to label some of those on this forum as brainwashed is also incorrect. If they were brainwashed, they'd be sitting at home reading Volkan, not actively engaging in a conversation with their 'sworn enemies'.

I agree with MicAtCyp's description of the memorial in Famagusta/Gazimagusa as lacking in a certain degree of taste, but then again that's also my perception of the National Struggle Memorial in Lefkosia (see picture below), and that's not because I'm a Brit, it just lacks a certain dignity and poise... anyways, that's a personal perception.



And the less said about this the better!

[antonis]

The major issue is what kind of identity we want for our children.

Family and education are the two environments where our beliefs and attitute against the world around us is formulated. During the first two decades of our life, everyone is fed what others want to feed him. It all boils down to what kind of identity your parents and the educational system want you to have. And it's a balance, that is hard to achieve and everyone may be critical of.

You are claiming that the books are biased, and that many GCs are brainwashed. I will have you know that certain circles in the GC community think that these books do not promote the right values to the students. Some parents disapprove of these books, the same goes to some educators. These people want a more "greek" identity to students and a less "cypriot" identity. They claim that the other side is promoting the turkish identity, and that if we don't promote the greek identity further, then the greek identity in Cyprus will eventually be lost.

Of course what is slowly being lost is the Cypriot identity. Just try to evaluate how Cypriot you are. Really, how many of us can dance a "kartzilama", can sing a voice from Tyllirka, from Karpasia or from Paphos? And if you do, has anyone bothered to teach these things to us at school?

We say that we shouldn't forget our history and value our heroes. But which history? And how many heroes do we have? One day there will not be enough streets...