Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

I haven't been to Greece for a good many years now the last time in fact was in 1987 , can any one who visits often tell me if the Athenians still spit in the street and if the signs " NO SPITTING "on public transport are still displayed. I know that they have finally discovered that public and restaurant toilets needn't just be shit-holes , I noticed that in 1987 . I also noticed how good they are at queueing for taxis .....

[Paphitis]

I haven't been to Greece for a good many years now the last time in fact was in 1987 , can any one who visits often tell me if the Athenians still spit in the street and if the signs " NO SPITTING "on public transport are still displayed. I know that they have finally discovered that public and restaurant toilets needn't just be shit-holes , I noticed that in 1987 . I also noticed how good they are at queueing for taxis .....

Well, I am not surprised Miltiades, as your ignorance about Greece is very evident.

Greece is a very modern country. The people are very sophisticated, even more so than your average Cypriot. In fact it is a proper European Country comparable to any other.

The last time I travelled to Greece was in 2004. I attended the Olympic Games, and it was an unbelievable experience. I intend to travel to Greece again, as I am very heavily involved in property investment within Australia and my ultimate goals are to also purchase property in Greece, and there is a property in Cyprus (Tsada) that I have also got my eye on, but unfortunately the exchange rate is restrictive atm. I already have a property in Paphos, but this is an old run down place that I inherited. I hope to retire between Cyprus and Greece in later life. Greece is a country I could easily see myself living in quite happily. The weather is great, and it is so beautiful. I also feel quite at home whenever I am there.

I find Athens is a modern international city comparable to Sydney or Melbourne. The subway system is fantastic, and the city does not suffer as much gridlock due to many new highways and roads which are absolutely superb. It is a very cosmopolitan city.

So yes, I do like Greece, just as much as Cyprus and Australia. There really is no difference as far as I am concerned between Greece and Australia, or between Greeks and Australians.

I suggest you take a holiday to Greece as soon as you are able to. Because it is an amazing place, and the Greeks are so hospitable and friendly. They love Cypriots as well. I have never had a problem in Greece, but it really all depends on your attitude.

[Oracle]

I haven't been to Greece for a good many years now the last time in fact was in 1987 , can any one who visits often tell me if the Athenians still spit in the street and if the signs " NO SPITTING "on public transport are still displayed. I know that they have finally discovered that public and restaurant toilets needn't just be shit-holes , I noticed that in 1987 . I also noticed how good they are at queueing for taxis .....

Miltiades that is something which is being considered in the UK now. If things continue as they are, they will have to put up "No Spitting" posters and impose fines if ignored.

This is because of the rise in Tuberculosis in the UK .....

In France, the hole-in-theground toilets are still predominant, and what is more, such low-squatting prevents the formation of hemorrhoids (more natural position).

Yup, Greece is way ahead

[Bananiot]

Top marks for Googlability ... but the essence is the same.

You are unable to distinguish from the anthropological nuances of the time, to the differing expanded, evolved civilisations of today.

The world of Socrates/ Protagoras et al. then, was a very different place to the Bananiot's world of now. However the Bananiot of now, has his feet stuck in his buccal cavity and is unable to distinguish between what he wants to believe and what he would rather say, to nullify any contradictions to his kindergarten philosophy.

In other words B. the Classical world does not begin and end with Protagoras, but the ability, which we have today with our English critical education, courtesy of Russel and Murdoch etc. to overview the whole of the Classical works available to us, such as was not possible before, and merge the true meaning of Hellenism which befits the times of today, such as it was rendered. Not for one time, but for all times.

So study Socrates and Isocrates and Epictetus, but know that they wrote in isolation, and it is only through the benefit of time, that we can piece it all together, as a whole.

As Kifeas' idol Isocrates stressed "Fitness for the occasion" (kaios) .... the rhetoric's ability to change with circumstances ... a notion for which you have not yet gained the capability to discern.

This Panhellenism, the political ideal, of freedom, self-control, virtue, and "what you see is what you get" versus the relative values of a whole, well rounded education of the Arts, Sciences and Philosophy is a modern extrapolation of the Classical education, and was not readily identifiable until of late.

All men are either born Greek or made Greek ... take your pick!

Let me make one thing clear first. I am not trying to impress anyone and if I need to google something I'll do it without feeling guilty about it. What I wrote about the sophists can be found on page 85 (greek version) of the famous Jostein Gaarden book on philosophy.

Now, search and tell us, If you please, what you mean by Panhellenism (in bold)!

[miltiades]

I haven't been to Greece for a good many years now the last time in fact was in 1987 , can any one who visits often tell me if the Athenians still spit in the street and if the signs " NO SPITTING "on public transport are still displayed. I know that they have finally discovered that public and restaurant toilets needn't just be shit-holes , I noticed that in 1987 . I also noticed how good they are at queueing for taxis .....

Miltiades that is something which is being considered in the UK now. If things continue as they are, they will have to put up "No Spitting" posters and impose fines if ignored.

This is because of the rise in Tuberculosis in the UK .....

In France, the hole-in-theground toilets are still predominant, and what is more, such low-squatting prevents the formation of hemorrhoids (more natural position).

Yup, Greece is way ahead

Its because the UK has allowed too many prehistoric medieval ,people to enter the country without making them first sign a declaration saying " I SHALL NOT SPIT IN THE STREET AND I SHALL NOT BLOW MY NOSE AIMING THE CONTENTS AT THE PAVEMENT !!!

[Talisker]

I haven't been to Greece for a good many years now the last time in fact was in 1987 , can any one who visits often tell me if the Athenians still spit in the street and if the signs " NO SPITTING "on public transport are still displayed. I know that they have finally discovered that public and restaurant toilets needn't just be shit-holes , I noticed that in 1987 . I also noticed how good they are at queueing for taxis .....

Miltiades that is something which is being considered in the UK now. If things continue as they are, they will have to put up "No Spitting" posters and impose fines if ignored.

This is because of the rise in Tuberculosis in the UK .....

In France, the hole-in-theground toilets are still predominant, and what is more, such low-squatting prevents the formation of hemorrhoids (more natural position).

Yup, Greece is way ahead

Its because the UK has allowed too many prehistoric medieval ,people to enter the country without making them first sign a declaration saying " I SHALL NOT SPIT IN THE STREET AND I SHALL NOT BLOW MY NOSE AIMING THE CONTENTS AT THE PAVEMENT !!!

That's what happens when the role models for our society are footballers!

[Get Real!]

You can throw at me all the ancient Greek names and philosophies you want because all that matters is that when I look at Greece today all I see is a bunch of dickheads… (excuse the ancient French)

I wonder what they see, when they look at you, dear heart?

"You" as in me specifically or Cypriots in general?

"You" as in the Cypriots who have detached themselves from Hellenism in the hope the Turks will look upon them more favourably ...

I’m happy to announce that I was never attached to “Hellenism” in the first place so there’s nothing for me to detach from. It’s all in the mind Oracle…

As for what the Greeks see when they look at Cyprus… I couldn’t care less!

I am 100% certain that they don't care what cowards like you think of them either.

To them you are just a "Barbarian", as you are pathetically seeking to gain favour amongst the TCs by selling out your Panhellenism. Pathetic imbecile!

The whole world saw hundreds of real barbarians trashing and looting Athens the other day…

Btw, you’re as daft as an oaf for buying this “Hellenic” crap in the first place…

[Talisker]

I haven't been to Greece for a good many years now the last time in fact was in 1987 , can any one who visits often tell me if the Athenians still spit in the street and if the signs " NO SPITTING "on public transport are still displayed. I know that they have finally discovered that public and restaurant toilets needn't just be shit-holes , I noticed that in 1987 . I also noticed how good they are at queueing for taxis .....

Well, I am not surprised Miltiades, as your ignorance about Greece is very evident.

Greece is a very modern country. The people are very sophisticated, even more so than your average Cypriot. In fact it is a proper European Country comparable to any other.

The last time I travelled to Greece was in 2004. I attended the Olympic Games, and it was an unbelievable experience. I intend to travel to Greece again, as I am very heavily involved in property investment within Australia and my ultimate goals are to also purchase property in Greece, and there is a property in Cyprus (Tsada) that I have also got my eye on, but unfortunately the exchange rate is restrictive atm. I already have a property in Paphos, but this is an old run down place that I inherited. I hope to retire between Cyprus and Greece in later life. Greece is a country I could easily see myself living in quite happily. The weather is great, and it is so beautiful. I also feel quite at home whenever I am there.

I find Athens is a modern international city comparable to Sydney or Melbourne. The subway system is fantastic, and the city does not suffer as much gridlock due to many new highways and roads which are absolutely superb. It is a very cosmopolitan city.

So yes, I do like Greece, just as much as Cyprus and Australia. There really is no difference as far as I am concerned between Greece and Australia, or between Greeks and Australians.

I suggest you take a holiday to Greece as soon as you are able to. Because it is an amazing place, and the Greeks are so hospitable and friendly. They love Cypriots as well. I have never had a problem in Greece, but it really all depends on your attitude.

I endorse everything Paphitis says about Greece. It is the most fantastic place, and I, too, really like the people. As a Brit, if I was to make a comparison with Cyprus I'd say Greece is like an 'extreme' Cyprus. The mountains and coastline are more spectacular, the archaeological sites more awe-inspiring (visits to Delphi, Olympia, Epidavros, Mycenae, etc are a must), the regional diversity and differences between the islands mean that any journey has a surprise round every corner. Ever been to Meteora? Amazing rock formations, with Orthodox monasteries clinging to the tops. It's an 'other-wordly' experience there - the perfect marriage of unique geography and human inspiration and endevour. Athens, as Paphitis says, is much improved, a very cosmopolitan city, and very enjoyable to visit. Greece is very definitely a modern European country - like all others it has its problems but don't dismiss it on the basis of an impression gained over twenty years ago. I've been visiting for nearly thirty years now, and never tire of it. Don't get me wrong - Cyprus is great, but Greece has additional, and slightly different, offerings........

[Get Real!]

The people are very sophisticated, even more so than your average Cypriot.

In fact it is a proper European Country comparable to any other.

Oh please... Greece was the toilet paper of the EEC for decades!

Keep the xmas jokes coming...

[Oracle]

Top marks for Googlability ... but the essence is the same.

You are unable to distinguish from the anthropological nuances of the time, to the differing expanded, evolved civilisations of today.

The world of Socrates/ Protagoras et al. then, was a very different place to the Bananiot's world of now. However the Bananiot of now, has his feet stuck in his buccal cavity and is unable to distinguish between what he wants to believe and what he would rather say, to nullify any contradictions to his kindergarten philosophy.

In other words B. the Classical world does not begin and end with Protagoras, but the ability, which we have today with our English critical education, courtesy of Russel and Murdoch etc. to overview the whole of the Classical works available to us, such as was not possible before, and merge the true meaning of Hellenism which befits the times of today, such as it was rendered. Not for one time, but for all times.

So study Socrates and Isocrates and Epictetus, but know that they wrote in isolation, and it is only through the benefit of time, that we can piece it all together, as a whole.

As Kifeas' idol Isocrates stressed "Fitness for the occasion" (kaios) .... the rhetoric's ability to change with circumstances ... a notion for which you have not yet gained the capability to discern.

This Panhellenism, the political ideal, of freedom, self-control, virtue, and "what you see is what you get" versus the relative values of a whole, well rounded education of the Arts, Sciences and Philosophy is a modern extrapolation of the Classical education, and was not readily identifiable until of late.

All men are either born Greek or made Greek ... take your pick!

Let me make one thing clear first. I am not trying to impress anyone and if I need to google something I'll do it without feeling guilty about it. What I wrote about the sophists can be found on page 85 (greek version) of the famous Jostein Gaarden book on philosophy.

Now, search and tell us, If you please, what you mean by Panhellenism (in bold)!

Apologies if I offended, but your post lacked your usual stoical style. It did appear monoclonal though, like one person's view, but not your own, hence Gaarder, I guess. As for searches, I welcome the opportunity to dust off some old favourites and see what I am missing (have virtually nothing on Isocrates I discovered yesterday and Wiki is like snacking instead of feasting ... so a visit to Waterstones later .. yum yum).

I have retrieved my 1995 hardback copy (in English) of "Sophie's World" from my son (it is on their year 7 reading list ) since I cannot recall the passages after some dozen years since reading it. It does not mention Protagoras on that page, so I may skim over it later to put your thoughts in perspective. (I see from a bookmark, I only got to page 130 of "The Solitaire Mystery", but I was pregnant whilst reading it so there may have been a life-changing interruption at the time and then I forgot to complete it. ).

As for Panhellenism, succinctly put in my original post, I mean the ideal worked towards by the sum total of the classical doctrines which have stood the test of time. The inquisitiveness for the Natural world, the work ethic for practical achievements and also the abstract and metaphysical enjoyment of knowledge for its own ends. Scholars would probably throw in a lot more, and each probably has his favourite, as Kifeas does (to bash me for my lack of clear and concise thought/speech ... a problem of over-description of detail required to get papers published for the sake of reproducibility of experimentation). My favourite would be Epictetus whose discourses impressed me enough that I read them twice (several years ago now so don't quiz me or I shall have to blow the dust off another book and I have just been asked to prepare lunch). I guess your favourite must be Protagoras. Good choice I have a first edition (paperback) 1960 version (not showing off, just keeping the reference clear) of "Before and After Socrates" by Cornford which I think first allowed me to feel it was not just that I am Greek/Cypriot that I can feel pride in what these men achieved but just the fact that some men (detached from nationality) had the confidence to, and ability to work on their ideas and observations unhindered. So their work is PAN (for all) ... and since originally Hellenic .... leads one to Panhellenic.

Excuse me if my posts are jumbled and verbose but (over) editing bores me .... But feel free to fire away more morsels for thought.