Cyprus-Forum.com

[MR-from-NG]

but the fact is one-we are he loosers of the war and if we decide to cooperate with he invasion forces for a united Cyprus the terms which we have to acept are these usually accepted by the loosers of the war.

Total respect Epsilon.

Respect for what “…be budala!”

Repeat what Epsilon said (if you have the balls) Kifeas and I will say the exact same words "TOTAL RESPECT" to you too.

[Kifeas]

but the fact is one-we are he loosers of the war and if we decide to cooperate with he invasion forces for a united Cyprus the terms which we have to acept are these usually accepted by the loosers of the war.

Total respect Epsilon.

Respect for what “…be budala!”

Repeat what Epsilon said (if you have the balls) Kifeas and I will say the exact same words "TOTAL RESPECT" to you too.

Epsilon is a defeated brain! He or she is demoralized and suffers from a defeatist syndrome, which is why s/he talks in the way s/he does! That is why you are also cheering him /her! You are cheering him /her because he/she better paves the way to your deluded aspirations and aims as a Turk! It so happens that he /she is just a fool that cannot realize why you are cheering him /her!

However, being your self a fool of a bigger magnitude, you did not resist and rushed to cheer his /her comments and side by him /her; managing in this way to betray him /her and expose the illogical and misguided direction his /her views have been taking!

Such a “budala” you in fact are!

[Pyrpolizer]

When You say Tcs are also loosers you are convist some Gcs but not the Turkish army forces!!!!

Why don’t you ask the TCs youself then? Ask them whether they consider themselves winners. They will simply tell you, no we consider ourselves lucky that Turkey "saved" us. If it were like you said, then which TC in his right mind would ever want re-unification with someone who considers his butcher/his killer/ anihilator? Are you in position to measure in what huge dilema the TCs are?
As for the Turkish army forces you tell me what have they won? Other than shitty piece of land that costs them more that what it can give them back?
I repeat: Winning a WAR in grasping land only worths it if that land give you something back. Something like oil perhaps.

Your proposal to accept some land back on exchange of official partition is very shortsighted imo and does not weigh the situation correctly. Nobody, absolutely NOBODY cares for our little problem here, and nobody (from those who count) can or will provide the pseudo with recognition ever. It will set a dangerous precedent to themselves. So don’t panic, and don’t be hastly.

In short, I am afraid you are just missing the ONE AND MOST important thing, that took the TCs almost 30 years to realize: That the land they took from us worths nothing, unless we sign them. And they know very well we will never sign them anything else than sharing.

In summary your proposal to get some land back on exchange of partition, seems to me like your selling your jewlery for 10 Euro each.

Wearing a TC partitionist hat, You have my full respects Epsilon. You are the man!

[Pyrpolizer]

Epsilon is a defeated brain! He or she is demoralized and suffers from a defeatist syndrome, which is why s/he talks in the way s/he does! That is why you are also cheering him /her! You are cheering him /her because he/she better paves the way to your deluded aspirations and aims as a Turk! It so happens that he /she is just a fool that cannot realize why you are cheering him /her!

Imo Epsilon is just a Turk hater who wants a pure Hellenic Cyprus, even if that will mean partition.

Imo again he fails to realize

a)what partition means and what are the long term consequences.
b)What a true Federation would mean in finally bringing justice for both GCs and TCs in the long run
c)That the Gcs have lost a battle, but the Tcs are not in a better situation either, so there is ground for a mutually acceptable Federal solution.

[karma]

Respect for what “…be budala!”

hey Kifea, ur turkish is improving like hell..congratulations to ur teacher

[EPSILON]

Epsilon is a defeated brain! He or she is demoralized and suffers from a defeatist syndrome, which is why s/he talks in the way s/he does! That is why you are also cheering him /her! You are cheering him /her because he/she better paves the way to your deluded aspirations and aims as a Turk! It so happens that he /she is just a fool that cannot realize why you are cheering him /her!

Imo Epsilon is just a Turk hater who wants a pure Hellenic Cyprus, even if that will mean partition.

Imo again he fails to realize

a)what partition means and what are the long term consequences.
b)What a true Federation would mean in finally bringing justice for both GCs and TCs in the long run
c)That the Gcs have lost a battle, but the Tcs are not in a better situation either, so there is ground for a mutually acceptable Federal solution.

I know very well what Annan plan means and its consequences for GCS
I know very well that the next plan will be a sister plan of Annan one and will be presented as victory by our leadership and many will say zeto and hi like 1960 after Zurich. - Do not forget we have G.Papantreou, or D.Mpakogianni with Kassoulides to handle the next one!!!1

[Pyrpolizer]

Keep squeezing them and see what comes up!!!!!!!

Hmm... Interesting.

[CopperLine]

A couple of contextual paragraphs, then an argument.

I was watching the Ken Loach film Land and Freedom recently, the one set in the Spanish Civil War, and in part following the fight of a Scouse volunteer fighting for the POUM. For many of those fighting in Spain - the agricultural labourers and rural population the control over land was crucial - land was freedom. It got me thinking about Cyprus, land and freedom.

In 1974 Cyprus was essentially an agricultural economy with pockets of artisanal production, and the odd bit of industrial production eg mines. Most people, even if not directly employed on the land, were still strongly connected to the land most often through continuing family associations with the land. For an agriculturally based population whose income and skills are directly drawn from the land to be expelled from the land is next to expulsion from life itself. Perhaps that's too melodramatic, but it approximates the significance of land.


So to the argument : In this thread about the possibilities of a federal solution the thing that came to mind is that land, and ownership of land, and access to land was vital in 1974, and therefore all proposed solutions have seen the land question - who gets what and how much, and with what compensation for lost land, etc - as crucial. It makes sense for an agricultural economy and for those reliant on an agricultural livelihood that land is the property that must be restored. On this crux have hung all peace plans, including discussions of federation.
But if we stop a minute and think about the Cyprus economy in 2007, agriculture is not the mainstay of the economy (north or south). Basically Cyprus is a service economy - it provides tourism, holiday, leisure, gambling, shipping services, educational services, and some offshore. Agriculture and agricultural employment have taken up a steadily smaller and smaller proportion of national income.
So I ask the question does the land question matter to a settlement, especially a federal settlement, in the same way that it did for the past thirty plus years ?

Let's add a further consideration, suppose a settlement is arrived at which addresses the land question. How many Cypriots - either outside Cyprus or within Cyprus, north or south - are going to return to work on the land ?

(I fully anticipate howls of derision from certain quarters at the mere expression of this heretical thought )

[Pyrpolizer]

Epsilon is a defeated brain! He or she is demoralized and suffers from a defeatist syndrome, which is why s/he talks in the way s/he does! That is why you are also cheering him /her! You are cheering him /her because he/she better paves the way to your deluded aspirations and aims as a Turk! It so happens that he /she is just a fool that cannot realize why you are cheering him /her!

Imo Epsilon is just a Turk hater who wants a pure Hellenic Cyprus, even if that will mean partition.

Imo again he fails to realize

a)what partition means and what are the long term consequences.
b)What a true Federation would mean in finally bringing justice for both GCs and TCs in the long run
c)That the Gcs have lost a battle, but the Tcs are not in a better situation either, so there is ground for a mutually acceptable Federal solution.

I know very well what Annan plan means and its consequences for GCS
I know very well that the next plan will be a sister plan of Annan one and will be presented as victory by our leadership and many will say zeto and hi like 1960 after Zurich. - Do not forget we have G.Papantreou, or D.Mpakogianni with Kassoulides to handle the next one!!!1

The policy of relying on the anglo-americans is OVER my friend "Kaput".
That's why all the plans presented so far were ALL partitionist plans.
We don't want their plans anymore.... We finally woke up.

Kasoulides??? Not when even people like me are ready to vote for a communist, rather than someone coming from the party of people who have an established tradition in selling their country.

It is either our Plan or nothing.

[EPSILON]

Epsilon is a defeated brain! He or she is demoralized and suffers from a defeatist syndrome, which is why s/he talks in the way s/he does! That is why you are also cheering him /her! You are cheering him /her because he/she better paves the way to your deluded aspirations and aims as a Turk! It so happens that he /she is just a fool that cannot realize why you are cheering him /her!

Imo Epsilon is just a Turk hater who wants a pure Hellenic Cyprus, even if that will mean partition.

Imo again he fails to realize

a)what partition means and what are the long term consequences.
b)What a true Federation would mean in finally bringing justice for both GCs and TCs in the long run
c)That the Gcs have lost a battle, but the Tcs are not in a better situation either, so there is ground for a mutually acceptable Federal solution.

I know very well what Annan plan is and its consequences for Gcs
I know very well that the next plan will be a sister plan of this of Annan
I know that we have G.Papantreou or D.Mpakogianni with Kassoulides to handle the new one
I know that nobody will give as what you said "true federation"-we will get a fake federation giving to minority more rights than the majority and most important for our survival as society the real control of the Island to Turkey.
If Tcs feel that they have been invated by a foreign army why they are staying there and cooperating with the invasion forces?I do not remember someone from Greek side to push them to go North.