Cyprus-Forum.com

[MR-from-NG]

There are federations and federations! The US is a federation, so does Germany and Australia! Spain is also a federation, and even Russia is another one! We have to pick up the case, or the elements from each case, that are more suitable for Cyprus; taking into consideration the history of the place (all the history and not just the last 40 years because that is what suits the Turkish side,) the demographics and the existing legal framework; and not the “might is right” philosophy of the Turkish neo-ottoman attitude and mentality!

The Annan plan was a disguised confederation, and it didn't even resemble that of Belgium, regardless of what it was mentioned in it! Wish it was like Belgium, but it was far worst! It was a disguised confederation between two pre-existing ethnically based nation-states, via "virgin birth!" Totally unhistorical, unacceptable and intolerable for the Greek Cypriot existentialist consciousness!

It was drafted in such a way so that it would historically, politically and legally vindicate nearly all of the fait accomplices of the Turkish invasion, ethnic cleansing, occupation, property usurping, TC separatism and the division of Cyprus!

The problem however is that the the other side (Turkish) is the winner of a war.Do you consider it possible they to accept a federation like the one we have in mind or even better a real indepedent state?

My answer is no. They will never do so, therefore if we really want a solution we must reconsider our side's targets.

My point is that any solution which include co-operation of the two communities under the unbrella of a central government will include also very heavy for us rights for the winner of the war.This will guide in a second 1963-1974 condition and which may reasulted a further disaster for the Gcs society.

My point here is that if we really want a permanent and final solution we must clearly have in mind

1.Turks invated by army and occupy a certain area of the Island-This is a result of a war (despite the reasons of the war)
2.There are no signs that the invator will withdraw without to secure rights against the Gcs.
3.The Gcs side has not and for the next 100 years will not have the military power to change the situation.
4.The international community will not accept Tcs to live in no country for long.
5.Gcs must urgently consider the actual facts and circustances and try to convist the invator to keep a much less land against a separate state to be recognised in the North.Of course solution always under the guarantee of the international community.
6.On the present targets of a solution we guide the Cyprus problem to make a second but similar circle like the one 1956-1974.
7.If you are the looser of a war and there are no signs for changes in this regard you must finally accept the circustances and try to minimize the damage-On the way we are going we are taking the risk to loose the whole Island within 15-20 years

so what do u suggest?

I thing item 5 of my post is clear

sorry, didn't take it as such.
How does it feel to be one of the few people on this forum TC and GC to be in complete agreement with VP?

I do not have any coplex to agree or disagree with anyone. I do not have any coplex in order to avoid the real facts even are no good for me.

With all due respect DT, if Epsilon is big enough and man enough to see the realities of the situation Cyprus is really in he should not be criticised for it.

The day the GC community start accepting this reality the better it will be for all concerned.

Btw, VP's views on this subject is absolutely spot on. Why he is branded as a propagandist or partitionist is beyond me. The guy makes sense and is by far the most consistent member on the forum. He has my full support and respect.

[bigOz]

There are federations and federations! The US is a federation, so does Germany and Australia! Spain is also a federation, and even Russia is another one! We have to pick up the case, or the elements from each case, that are more suitable for Cyprus; taking into consideration the history of the place (all the history and not just the last 40 years because that is what suits the Turkish side,) the demographics and the existing legal framework; and not the “might is right” philosophy of the Turkish neo-ottoman attitude and mentality!

The Annan plan was a disguised confederation, and it didn't even resemble that of Belgium, regardless of what it was mentioned in it! Wish it was like Belgium, but it was far worst! It was a disguised confederation between two pre-existing ethnically based nation-states, via "virgin birth!" Totally unhistorical, unacceptable and intolerable for the Greek Cypriot existentialist consciousness!

It was drafted in such a way so that it would historically, politically and legally vindicate nearly all of the fait accomplices of the Turkish invasion, ethnic cleansing, occupation, property usurping, TC separatism and the division of Cyprus!

The problem however is that the the other side (Turkish) is the winner of a war.Do you consider it possible they to accept a federation like the one we have in mind or even better a real indepedent state?

My answer is no. They will never do so, therefore if we really want a solution we must reconsider our side's targets.

My point is that any solution which include co-operation of the two communities under the unbrella of a central government will include also very heavy for us rights for the winner of the war.This will guide in a second 1963-1974 condition and which may reasulted a further disaster for the Gcs society.

My point here is that if we really want a permanent and final solution we must clearly have in mind

1.Turks invated by army and occupy a certain area of the Island-This is a result of a war (despite the reasons of the war)
2.There are no signs that the invator will withdraw without to secure rights against the Gcs.
3.The Gcs side has not and for the next 100 years will not have the military power to change the situation.
4.The international community will not accept Tcs to live in no country for long.
5.Gcs must urgently consider the actual facts and circustances and try to convist the invator to keep a much less land against a separate state to be recognised in the North.Of course solution always under the guarantee of the international community.
6.On the present targets of a solution we guide the Cyprus problem to make a second but similar circle like the one 1956-1974.
7.If you are the looser of a war and there are no signs for changes in this regard you must finally accept the circustances and try to minimize the damage-On the way we are going we are taking the risk to loose the whole Island within 15-20 years

so what do u suggest?

I thing item 5 of my post is clear

sorry, didn't take it as such.
How does it feel to be one of the few people on this forum TC and GC to be in complete agreement with VP?

I do not have any coplex to agree or disagree with anyone. I do not have any coplex in order to avoid the real facts even are no good for me.

With all due respect DT, if Epsilon is big enough and man enough to see the realities of the situation Cyprus is really in he should not be criticised for it.

The day the GC community start accepting this reality the better it will be for all concerned.

Btw, VP's views on this subject is absolutely spot on. Why he is branded as a propagandist or partitionist is beyond me. The guy makes sense and is by far the most consistent member on the forum. He has my full support and respect.

Her, here! AND yes I also say BANANIOT FOR PRESIDENT!

[zan]

There are federations and federations! The US is a federation, so does Germany and Australia! Spain is also a federation, and even Russia is another one! We have to pick up the case, or the elements from each case, that are more suitable for Cyprus; taking into consideration the history of the place (all the history and not just the last 40 years because that is what suits the Turkish side,) the demographics and the existing legal framework; and not the “might is right” philosophy of the Turkish neo-ottoman attitude and mentality!

The Annan plan was a disguised confederation, and it didn't even resemble that of Belgium, regardless of what it was mentioned in it! Wish it was like Belgium, but it was far worst! It was a disguised confederation between two pre-existing ethnically based nation-states, via "virgin birth!" Totally unhistorical, unacceptable and intolerable for the Greek Cypriot existentialist consciousness!

It was drafted in such a way so that it would historically, politically and legally vindicate nearly all of the fait accomplices of the Turkish invasion, ethnic cleansing, occupation, property usurping, TC separatism and the division of Cyprus!

The problem however is that the the other side (Turkish) is the winner of a war.Do you consider it possible they to accept a federation like the one we have in mind or even better a real indepedent state?

My answer is no. They will never do so, therefore if we really want a solution we must reconsider our side's targets.

My point is that any solution which include co-operation of the two communities under the unbrella of a central government will include also very heavy for us rights for the winner of the war.This will guide in a second 1963-1974 condition and which may reasulted a further disaster for the Gcs society.

My point here is that if we really want a permanent and final solution we must clearly have in mind

1.Turks invated by army and occupy a certain area of the Island-This is a result of a war (despite the reasons of the war)
2.There are no signs that the invator will withdraw without to secure rights against the Gcs.
3.The Gcs side has not and for the next 100 years will not have the military power to change the situation.
4.The international community will not accept Tcs to live in no country for long.
5.Gcs must urgently consider the actual facts and circustances and try to convist the invator to keep a much less land against a separate state to be recognised in the North.Of course solution always under the guarantee of the international community.
6.On the present targets of a solution we guide the Cyprus problem to make a second but similar circle like the one 1956-1974.
7.If you are the looser of a war and there are no signs for changes in this regard you must finally accept the circustances and try to minimize the damage-On the way we are going we are taking the risk to loose the whole Island within 15-20 years

so what do u suggest?

I thing item 5 of my post is clear

sorry, didn't take it as such.
How does it feel to be one of the few people on this forum TC and GC to be in complete agreement with VP?

I do not have any coplex to agree or disagree with anyone. I do not have any coplex in order to avoid the real facts even are no good for me.

With all due respect DT, if Epsilon is big enough and man enough to see the realities of the situation Cyprus is really in he should not be criticised for it.

The day the GC community start accepting this reality the better it will be for all concerned.

Btw, VP's views on this subject is absolutely spot on. Why he is branded as a propagandist or partitionist is beyond me. The guy makes sense and is by far the most consistent member on the forum. He has my full support and respect.

Her, here! AND yes I also say BANANIOT FOR PRESIDENT!

Here Here and there there!!!!

[Kifeas]

Sorry Epsilon (and all the rest of the crow clan,) but I will disappoint you!

The realities are the following:

In 1974, the Turks (the pimp neo-ottoman kemalist establishment of Turkey and its local prostitutes) had not won the war! They had only won just one battle! The war is not over yet, but it still continues! What we have today is only a cease-fire in one of the fronts, the military one! In all the rest of the fronts, or dimensions, the war continues! In 1974, we only signed a cease-fire on the military dimension! Ever since 1974, the Turks (see above) have been losing all the subsequent and consecutive battles, on all the rest of the fronts!

They have lost all the battles in forcing us to capitulate and formally surrender to them the 37% of our country, as they have not been able to legalize anything of the illegitimate fait accomplices that the 1974 invasion has produced for them!

They have lost all the political battles in getting their since 1983 puppet state being recognized!

They have lost all the legal battles in the European Court of Human rights!

Finally, they have lost the biggest battle of all, which was for the RoC -with its entire de jure territory and sovereignty, not to become an EU member state; or at least to become one after first capitulating on their since 1974 illegitimate political demands, visa vie a solution of the Cyprus problem (read Annan plan!)

If in 1974, the Turks had managed to grab us from both of our two balls, and have been squeezing them ever since; in 2004, by winning the EU accession battle, we have managed to grab them from their two balls as well, and we can now both squeeze each other equally!

The difference between us and them is that while in our case we have gotten used to the pain of having our balls being squeezed for 33 years; the Turks (read above) have not gotten used to such a pain, that is why one can hear their cries and foul playing so loudly! The war continues!

[DT.]

I don;'t believe anyone has the right to condemn thousands of generations to come, into living on a divided island. I for one would not have such a right to vote for something like this. Who the hell am I and what is so special about my generation (or indeed any generation) to split this island up forever?

Stick your Turkish and Greek Republics where they belong...in Turkey and Greece.

[zan]

Sorry Epsilon (and all the rest of the crow clank,) but I will disappoint you!

The realities are the following:

In 1974, the Turks (the pimp neo-ottoman kemalist establishment of Turkey and its local prostitutes) had not won the war! They had won only a battle! The war is not over yet, but it still continues! What we have today is only a cease-fire in one of the fronts, the military one! In all the rest of the fronts, or dimensions, the war continues! In 1974, we only signed a cease-fire on the military dimension! Ever since 1974, the Turks (see above) have been losing all the subsequent and consecutive battles, on all the rest of the fronts!

They have lost all the battles in forcing us to capitulate and formally surrender to them the 37% of our country, as they have not been able to legalize anything of the illegitimate fait accomplices that the 1974 invasion has produced for them!

They have lost all the political battles in getting their since 1983 puppet state being recognized!

They have lost all the legal battles in the European Court of Human rights!

Finally, they have lost the biggest battle of all, which was for the RoC with its entire territory not to become an EU member state; or at least to become one after first capitulating on their since 1974 illegitimate political demands visa vie a solution of the Cyprus problem (read Annan plan!)

If in 1974, the Turks had managed to grab us from both of our two balls, and have been squeezing them ever since; in 2004, by winning the EU accession battle, we have managed to grab them from their two balls as well, and we can now both squeeze each other equally!

The difference between us and them is that while in our case we have gotten used to the pain of having our balls being squeezed for 33 years; the Turks (read above) have not gotten used to such a pain, that is why one can here their cries and foul playing so loudly! The war continues!

Shame you did not give this honest speech when the EU was thinking about letting you in and as you have stated you have lied your way through all these victories you claim.....Time to pay the piper!!!!!!


You heard it from the horses mouth guys...Now tell me VP and I are wrong.......


Come on...How many times do I have to ask...Pretty please post those missile maps you did once...Nikitas is dying to see them...

[Kifeas]

I know what Zan and "Mr from NG" did not like from what I have explained to them! They didn't like the idea of not being the only ones having the luxury to be squeezing our balls! Now that their balls are also getting equally squeezed and twisted by us, they are getting upset hearing the truth!

Unfortunately Zan and "Mr from NG," we cannot sympathize with your pain! You have been the only ones squeezing for 30 years, now we will also squeeze as much as it ...pains!

[zan]

I know what Zan and "Mr from NG" did not like from what I have explained to them! They didn't like the idea of not being the only ones having the luxury to be squeezing our balls! Now that their balls are also getting equally squeezed and twisted by us, they are getting upset hearing the truth!

Unfortunately Zan and "Mr from NG," we cannot sympathize with your pain! You have been the only ones squeezing for 30 years, now we will also squeeze as much as it pains!

Just cause you did not know what you were holding and how precious it was to us does not excuse you Kifeas. You started the squeezing but told the world you were not....We have the photos my friend

[Nikitas]

Kifeas,

Of all the descriptions of foreign policy I have ever read yours is by far the most direct! Ouch!

The EU is not as big a club (in the weapon sense) as you think. In the long run what will help us prevail is our stubborness and survival skills learned through thousands of years of practice. By us we must define what we mean, for me and others it means all Cypriots and the goal is to get rid of ALL foreign powers.

I do agree with you about the present state being a part way goal and not the disaster some see. For the first time in its history Cyprus is an independent state if not in whole then at least in the greater part.

And yes, like Zan said I do want to see those maps. I think Zan is referring to the S-300 fiasco.

[zan]

I don't think he has the balls Nikitas.......