Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Piratis
I believe Muharrem Faiz (TC) conducted the survey in the north and let me assure you, that Turks and TCs can be told apart, not only from appearence but from speach, we talk differently like you do from Greeks.

[Piratis]

I believe Muharrem Faiz (TC) conducted the survey in the north and let me assure you, that Turks and TCs can be told apart, not only from appearence but from speach, we talk differently like you do from Greeks.

Ok 2 questions:

1) If a "settler looking" person said to Faiz that he was in Cyprus before 74, would Faiz tell him: "No you did not!" and refuse to write what the person said.

2) How about the children of settlers that either were born here, or came very young. Can you necessarily tell the difference between those and TCs as well?

[Alexandros Lordos]

The chart of Alexandros drew my attention (although I've seen it before).

Alex, I guess being a settler is not considered very prestigious in the occupied areas, right? Also, I guess the settlers realized that in case of solution some of them would have to leave. Couple that with the fact that most of them are not very educated, and the question is: Don't you think that many settlers would intentionally hide their real identity in such an interview? After all the "TRNC" doesn't make a distinction between settler and TC. Maybe many of them would also prefer to be seen as Cypriots instead of settlers, and this is why they intentionally gave misleading info.

No offense, but simply asking people might not be the most correct way to get precise results (as you claim they are) in this case.

Piratis, I don't doubt your point, and I am sure that some systematic bias of the results crept in ... however, we should also recall that the question looked innocent at first sight, I did not directly ask "are you a settler or a "true" Turkish Cypriot" - which of course would have been tantamount to asking for an insincere response. I just asked how long their family has been in Cyprus. And it being the fiftieth or so question in a survey where one was struggling to express his true views, I doubt many would have made the connection "oh, they are asking me now if I am a settler and I should lie about when I came to Cyprus in order to hide that".

Besides, almost every survey done in the north, from what my colleagues have told me, gets the settlers proportion at around 30%. (unless it is all ... a big conspiracy? Any takers for the conspiracy theory approach? )

The best thing to do, no doubt, is to have an internationally monitored census in the north (not just of people but also of properties). Then we will all know for sure, and all propaganda relating to this matter will cease.

[Alexandros Lordos]

If a "settler looking" person said to Faiz that he was in Cyprus before 74, would Faiz tell him: "No you did not!" and refuse to write what the person said.

Actually, I think Viewpoint has a valid point here. The survey was conducted by Turkish Cypriots, and when they entered a house it would be obvious that it was a settler family. Now, the settlers would know that the TC was aware of their origin, and they would therefore be ashamed to speak a lie that the other person would immediately see through. Nobody wants to be labelled a liar, any more than they like being labelled a settler. So again, I acknowledge that some bias would creep in (some people would lie without shame), but not much.

Actually, someone who is not willing to reveal that he is a settler is far more likely to respond with "No Response" rather than with "I have been here since before 1974". And indeed there was a 4% of the sample which did not respond, and my assumption is that most of these were settlers.

[Bananiot]

" ... However, the longer this debacle continues, the wider the gap between the two will become as TCs continue to seek better opportunities elsewhere. Then, the partition will certainly be cemented..."

So says Cannedmoose and I couldn't agree more. I would add to that the fact that more and more settlers will arrive and eventually they will be the vast majority. This is as good a reason as any for our government to rush for a solution, rather than play the stalling tactics.

I find the discussion on the reasons the TC's (or anyone come to that) want a solution very unproductive. Its like arguing that a person contributes to charity in order to gain a place in heavens. Looking at motives is not always the most clever thing to do but, paranoia, is the an ailment that is endemic in Cyprus.

[Piratis]

However, the longer this debacle continues, the wider the gap between the two will become as TCs continue to seek better opportunities elsewhere. Then, the partition will certainly be cemented

TCs never stopped seeking "better opportunities" elsewhere. TCs were trying to legalize partition for 30 years. The only reason that the debate continues is that they didn't manage to do it because it is illegal. So to continue to try to legalize what they got from us illegally is really nothing new.

Whether or not partition is cemented doesn't depend on TCs. If it was, it would have been cemented 30 years ago.

[Viewpoint]

My friend, you must realize that the state of play has now changed, we have the EU, the fall out caused by the referendum and Turkeys bid to join EU.

[cannedmoose]

Besides, almost every survey done in the north, from what my colleagues have told me, gets the settlers proportion at around 30%. (unless it is all ... a big conspiracy? Any takers for the conspiracy theory approach? )

Somehow Alex, I think you'll have plenty of takers...

[MicAtCyp]

Metecyp
Sener Levent is the only one who tells something about the occupation.I do not consider him a God, but where from can we get information when noone of you speaks? Even in this forum you have to be provoked the hell to open your mouths and say some truths. Listen very carefully to what Brother said. "We wisper the truths amongs us" in the North but cannot say them publicly. Hasan Kahvecioglu was talking to us a bit in the past, but after the regime sue him in court together with other journalists he shouted his mouth completely....
About Sener Levent he is right the number of TCs working in the free areas is 12K and this can be verified from the number of crossings every day!!! What they discovered to be 5-6K is those who registered their salary,by paying tax and social insurance out of that.The other 6 K sort of "agree" secretely with their bosses to work unregistered accepting a bit lower salary but still saving from the fact they don't pay tax and social insurance. Although that is illegal it seems our Police just plays crazy, because in addition to that Denktash taxes their salary as if they were working abroad by something like 20-30% I think.

Settlers comprise about 30% of voters in the north, no more, no less.

This according to your poll of course which was made by telephone, and to which propably most settlers would refuse to even participate, and to which propably most settlers did not participate because they did not have a telephone, and because for many other reasons that only you can tell or find out.
Alexandre, Cannedmoose already gave the answer.The settlers 4 years ago were 57%. How far you think that figure is TODAY from my 2 out of 3 (66%) claim compared to your claim for 30 (?!)%
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Metecyp
I said I understood and appreciated your reasons.Even if some will lead to economic improvement, there is no problem for me, in fact isn't that your human right to seek that? There would be a problem for me if that were your ONLY reason. But it is not.You listed very good and rigid reasons which I appreciated.Lets not spoil the whole spirit OK?
Brother
thank you too brother for the reasons you listed, they are equally appreciated like those of Metecyp. I knew the fact that "you whisper" the truths between you, and I appreciate your honesty in confirming it.

Cannedmoose
I don't know where I applied double standards against you, but if I did then I sincerely apologise.

[insan]

Sener Levent is the only one who tells something about the occupation.I do not consider him a God, but where from can we get information when noone of you speaks? Even in this forum you have to be provoked the hell to open your mouths and say some truths. Listen very carefully to what Brother said. "We wisper the truths amongs us" in the North but cannot say them publicly. Hasan Kahvecioglu was talking to us a bit in the past, but after the regime sue him in court together with other journalists he shouted his mouth completely....
About Sener Levent he is right the number of TCs working in the free areas is 12K and this can be verified from the number of crossings every day!!! What they discovered to be 5-6K is those who registered their salary,by paying tax and social insurance out of that.The other 6 K sort of "agree" secretely with their bosses to work unregistered accepting a bit lower salary but still saving from the fact they don't pay tax and social insurance. Although that is illegal it seems our Police just plays crazy, because in addition to that Denktash taxes their salary as if they were working abroad by something like 20-30% I think.

Swearing, insulting, trying to degrade some individuals and institutions has nothing to do with the truths and democrasy. None of them was sued because of what they say, they were sued because of the baseless allegations they made and the swearing, insulting, degrading style of wordings.