Cyprus-Forum.com

[Alexandros Lordos]

2. Stop exaggerating about the number of settlers. It is ridiculous to be saying that there are two settlers for every Turkish Cypriot, and it undermines the respect of GCs for the TC community.

Sener Levent article #526198 at Politis on 22/2/05

Besides these elections are not TC elections. Since the vast majority of the voters were mainland Turks, to what kind of TC Political will can we refer to?

Whats the meaning of vast majority to you Alexandre?

MicAtCyp,

all I know for sure is my own survey, which was a representative sample of voters in the north. (The fact that the sample was representative can be verified by the fact that known statistics (e.g. referendum vote, 2003 election results) were predicted with accuracy):



Settlers comprise about 30% of voters in the north, no more, no less.

Now, I don't know where Sener Levent gets his figures, but they don't make any sense to me whatsoever ...

[metecyp]

Settlers comprise about 30% of voters in the north, no more, no less.

Now, I don't know where Sener Levent gets his figures, but they don't make any sense to me whatsoever ...

Thanks Alex for pointing out the truth. That's why we need more scientific research and less empty words.

[-mikkie2-]

This argument about the number of settlers voting is pointless unless there is a proper censous in the north that establishes the facts.

When GC's talk about settlers we talk about them as a total which includes the illegal workers and temporary workers. Many of these people under the Annan plan would eventually get citizenship.

Now, regarding the result of Alexandros' survey, the actual honesty of it depends on the people that conducted the survey. I would assume that Alexandros employed an agency in the north to do this survey and we have to take it that this agency was impartial and did what was asked of it.

I guess only Alexandros knows the answers to these questions and we will have to take his word for it. I personally don't have any reason to question it.

Any solution will have economic benefits for TCs because the current situation is an economic disaster for TCs and if you dig hard enough, you can find economic benefits in everything.

Metecyp,

If the situation in the north is such an economic disaster, why are there so many illegal workers coming to northern Cyprus?

[insan]

If the situation in the north is such an economic disaster, why are there so many illegal workers coming to northern Cyprus?

Because of the greediness of Turkish and TC bosses. Vast majority of those illegal workers work at construction industry in North. They are paid lower wages than the TCs are paid in South. With the opening of the gates 5-6 thousands of TC who were working at construction industry in North quit their works and went South in order to get a bit higher wages. As a consequence of this replacement, the greedy Turkish and TC bosses of Construction Industry of North imported more cheap labourers from Turkey.

Last year anew migration, work permission law was passed in the parliament of North in order to give a chance to those illegal workers to get registered otherwise they would be deported.

I have no knowledge about how many of those illegal workers have been registered or deported. Anyone has any info? There should be a GC/TC/Foreign researcher-journalist who might have asked this question any of the relevant authorities in the North.

[metecyp]

Metecyp,

If the situation in the north is such an economic disaster, why are there so many illegal workers coming to northern Cyprus?

It's disaster for T-Cypriots not necessarily Turks. These illegal workers have nothing in Turkey, no jobs, no house, etc. They come to Cyprus and work in constructions, earn very little compared to the standards in the north. They live in the construction sites and they eat bread and cheese as dinner. So they keep all the money they earn and in 1-2 years they have enough money to go back to Turkey or bring their families from Turkey.

What they earn is minimal in north standards and it's nothing compared to south standards but it's something for the standards of Turkey. That's why they keep coming to the north.

[insan]

It's disaster for T-Cypriots not necessarily Turks. These illegal workers have nothing in Turkey, no jobs, no house, etc.

metecyp,

It is true that they had no jobs in Turkey but ain't it a bit exagerration to say that they have no huse etc? So where do their families(if they have) live already?

They come to Cyprus and work in constructions, earn very little compared to the standards in the north.

They work at least twice over-time a TC construction worker is able to work and they get 300Tl. to 500Tl. wages.

They live in the construction sites and they eat bread and cheese as dinner.

It is true that they carefuly spend their money but making over-generalisations and claiming that they eat bread and cheese as dinner does not reflect the truth about them. In Nicosia most of them are living in restored old houses of walled-city by paying very little amounts of rental costs.

So they keep all the money they earn and in 1-2 years they have enough money to go back to Turkey or bring their families from Turkey.

It is true that they are careful to keep most of their money to send their families in Turkey or rent a house to bring their families to North.

[metecyp]

It is true that they had no jobs in Turkey but ain't it a bit exagerration to say that they have no huse etc? So where do their families(if they have) live already?

I should have said "proper house" rather than house. You know most of them live in what they call "gecekondu" in Turkey.

It is true that they carefuly spend their money but making over-generalisations and claiming that they eat bread and cheese as dinner does not reflect the truth about them. In Nicosia most of them are living in restored old houses of walled-city by paying very little amounts of rental costs.

Ok, I admit that I'm overgeneralizing but it's not completely unfounded. When I was a kid, there was a construction going on next to my house and it lasted for 3-4 years. I saw how these people lived. In the afternoon, one of the workers would go to the market and come back with 10 breads and 2-3 yogurts for 8-10 workers. It was the same schene almost every day.

[insan]

I should have said "proper house" rather than house. You know most of them live in what they call "gecekondu" in Turkey.

The houses they live in North are almost the same with the ones they live in Turkey because those type of houses are the ones they can afford to pay economically. Have you recently visited the old Nicosia?

Ok, I admit that I'm overgeneralizing but it's not completely unfounded. When I was a kid, there was a construction going on next to my house and it lasted for 3-4 years. I saw how these people lived. In the afternoon, one of the workers would go to the market and come back with 10 breads and 2-3 yogurts for 8-10 workers. It was the same scheme almost every day.

It seems to me that their nutritive customs arise from the economic and social circumstances they have been condemned. Besides the practicality of the foods they choose to eat. If the construction company have cooked and brought them dinners for a reasonable price; they wouldn't resist not to eat that dinner.

[metecyp]

It seems to me that their nutritive customs arise from the economic and social circumstances they have been condemned. Besides the practicality of the foods they choose to eat. If the construction company have cooked and brought them dinners for a reasonable price; they wouldn't resist not to eat that dinner.

I didn't say otherwise. I wasn't trying to condemn these people. I just described their situation in Cyprus and I'm not proud of it. I think TCs should realize that we cannot keep letting these people in and not give them the opportunities for a proper life. We should stop everyone coming in and accept only as much as we need so we can provide the necessary conditions for their proper living.

[Piratis]

Ok, I have not followed the discussion for long time, so I just dropped in the last page.

The chart of Alexandros drew my attention (although I've seen it before).

Alex, I guess being a settler is not considered very prestigious in the occupied areas, right? Also, I guess the settlers realized that in case of solution some of them would have to leave. Couple that with the fact that most of them are not very educated, and the question is: Don't you think that many settlers would intentionally hide their real identity in such an interview? After all the "TRNC" doesn't make a distinction between settler and TC. Maybe many of them would also prefer to be seen as Cypriots instead of settlers, and this is why they intentionally gave misleading info.

No offense, but simply asking people might not be the most correct way to get precise results (as you claim they are) in this case.