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Humanist Re:Gemikonağı

Feel free to talk about anything that you want.

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:59 am

Nikitas wrote:I have a genuine question about the changed in place names in northern Cyprus.

Why are place and village names changed? In some cases like Komi Kepir, Famagusta, Kouklia etc the names are not even Greek, so why the need to change?

I read somewhere that Rauf Denktash was born in a Turkish village in the Paphos district called Ayios Vassilios, Saint Basil. Why didn't the Turkish Cypriots living in this village through centuries of Ottoman rule and about a century of British rule feel the need to change its (Christian and Greek) name, yet they changed every name of the north since 1974?

I am not challenging or seeking an argument, I want to know the impulse behind the changes.

According to Niyazı Kızılyürek (a Turkish Cypriot academic who for years was denied entry to the "TRNC" of which he is a "citizen" for being too "pro-Greek") on pages 249-250 of his book "Milliyetçilik Kıskacında Kıbrıs", this process goes back to the late fifties when Rauf Denktash was brought in to head both the TMT and the Federation of Turkish Cypriot Organisations. Denktash initiated a wide-ranging Turkification programme, including the imposing of fines on people for speaking Greek. It seems at that time quite a few people who were classified as Turkish Cypriots couldn't even speak Turkish. Kızılyürek even quotes a passage from Denktash's own memoirs in which he described how on a visit to Yeşilırmak/Limnitis he noticed an old man sitting in total silence in the coffee shop. On making inquiries, it turned out that this fellow had been fined several times for speaking Greek, and since he did not know any Turkish he now just came to the coffee shop and sat there in sullen silence! (Rauf Denktash's Memoirs Vol 10, p.128) Part of this campaign involved inventing "pure Turkish" names for every village in Cyprus. Kızılyürek again quotes Denktash when he justified this particular campaign by saying, "At the end of the day, we were trying to prove that we were a people with a historical footprint on Cyprus, that Cyprus was not a Greek island as the Greek Cypriots claimed" (Rauf Denktash's Memoirs, Vol 10, p.129 My Translation).
So this phenomenon is not restricted to the North. Every village on the island has a Turkish name and in most cases these were arbitrarily invented in the late fifties as part of a conscious political program. I have a map of the whole of Cyprus published in the "TRNC" showing the Turkish names for villages over the whole island, so, for example, Erimi on the outskirts of Limassol is called Yunus.
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Postby iceman » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:12 am

Tim Drayton wrote:Every village on the island has a Turkish name and in most cases these were arbitrarily invented in the late fifties as part of a conscious political program. I have a map of the whole of Cyprus published in the "TRNC" showing the Turkish names for villages over the whole island, so, for example, Erimi on the outskirts of Limassol is called Yunus.


and i have a map of whole Cyprus (with Turkish names on Turkish & mix villages) dating back to 1882..The first map made by the British administration. :wink:
As i pointed out on my previous post there were Turkish names for Turkish & mix villages but for those without one,a name was made up in the period you mention..
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maybe we can go together

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:14 pm

Humanist, if you are really worried e-mail me at [email protected] closer to the time and, if I have enough spare time, we can go together. I can also show you where Agios mamas church is in Morphou if you want to see that.
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Postby Nikitas » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:06 pm

Tim

Thank you for a moste elucidating response. I honestly had no idea that the place names would be such a big issue for Mr Dentkash and regarded vital in establishing a "historical footprint". I cant see the need for the artifice when a community has been continually present for 4 centuries.

From a linguistic point of view the process brings to mind a study done by a former colleague for a PhD, his thesis being that at the root of many conflicts lies a linguistic difference. I can see his point now, for Greek is noematic language often using compound words to convey a meaning. So Prodromos is the forerunner, and calling a village by that name denotes it sits at the start of a route, it is the first village in line etc. Turkish seems fine with phonetic rendering regardless of the original etymological roots- ie Istanbul (Is tin poli), Kaiseri (Caesaria), etc.

Interesting!
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Postby Nikitas » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:38 pm

After thanking Tim for his clear and instructive post I want to thank all the others who provided information about this name changing phenomenon.

Special thanks to Deniz for sticking to the historic name of his village. I can empathize because I am attached to the name Famagusta even though it is not at all Greek, it gives me a clue about the city, who built it, what it meant at the time. I do not expect the legitimacy of my ties to the city to be reinforced if someone arbitrarily gives it a Greek name. Same goes for other non Greek names like Belle Paix, Cantara, Komi Kepir. That last one is a hamlet at the beginning of the Karpasia peninsula, for which I have a soft spot, we always stopped there for coffee when travelling to Apostolos Andreas, a journey of 65 miles and considered a "long trip" in those days necessitating a stop!

Kibir in Arabic means big, so I always thought that it meant Big Komi, whatever Komi means, and that Arabs had something to do with the name. I may be wrong but never thought to change its name to something else.

Re reading the Denktash rationale for name changes just brings disappointment. If one of the major figures of our recent history thought and acted like that then God help Cypriots. We should seek EU funds for being an endangered species.

Humanist good luck finding your way around your home village my friend!
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Postby denizaksulu » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:47 pm

Nikitas wrote:After thanking Tim for his clear and instructive post I want to thank all the others who provided information about this name changing phenomenon.

Special thanks to Deniz for sticking to the historic name of his village. I can empathize because I am attached to the name Famagusta even though it is not at all Greek, it gives me a clue about the city, who built it, what it meant at the time. I do not expect the legitimacy of my ties to the city to be reinforced if someone arbitrarily gives it a Greek name. Same goes for other non Greek names like Belle Paix, Cantara, Komi Kepir. That last one is a hamlet at the beginning of the Karpasia peninsula, for which I have a soft spot, we always stopped there for coffee when travelling to Apostolos Andreas, a journey of 65 miles and considered a "long trip" in those days necessitating a stop!

Kibir in Arabic means big, so I always thought that it meant Big Komi, whatever Komi means, and that Arabs had something to do with the name. I may be wrong but never thought to change its name to something else.

Re reading the Denktash rationale for name changes just brings disappointment. If one of the major figures of our recent history thought and acted like that then God help Cypriots. We should seek EU funds for being an endangered species.

Humanist good luck finding your way around your home village my friend!



Komi is a Cypriote word meaning habitation=village. I dont think they use that word in Greece. Maybe someone will find out. So KomiKebir = big town
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More on Turkish place names

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:05 pm

In connection with the discussion around the turkification of place names, I have come across the following report in the Volkan newspaper dated 4 Aug 2006:
http://www.volkangazetesi.net/index.php ... &category=
This is a fascist newspaper which appears in the north of Cyprus. Oddly I cannot find any references to the same matter from the archives of the left-wing Turkish Cypriot press. I present my own translation of most of the article without further comment:

Village Names revert to Greek
The decision for village, street and place names which have been turkified since 1958 to revert to their former names has been approved by the CTP-DP government.

The decision for village, street and place names which have been turkified since 1958 to revert to their former names which was approved with the votes of CTP and DP members at the Third Culture and Arts Congress that was convened by the Ministry of National Education and Culture on 3-7 April 2006 has also been approved by the CTP-DP government.
The CTP-DP government, at the previous day’s Council of Ministers meeting, gave its approval in accordance with the relevant regulations for the decisions taken at the Third Culture-Arts Congress which convened on 3-7 April to be promulgated in the Official Gazette and come into force. In line with this decision taken by the CTP-DP government, in the coming days work will start on converting place, street and village names into Greek.

WHAT TOOK PLACE AT THE THIRD CULTURE AND ARTS CONGRESS?
It was learnt on the final day of the congress on 7 April in the course of presentations concerning changes made in Subcommittee reports that Folklore Subcommittee Vice Chairman Mustafa Serdengeçti submitted a motion on 3 April to the chair of the Congress Council for village, street and place names which have been turkified since 1958 to revert to their former names

This motion by CTP-supporter Mustafa Serdengeçti sparked off very intense discussion. Those members who opposed this motion, pointing to the political objections which would be caused by readopting the former names of villages, streets and places and the negative consequences which would arise from this decision, stated that this matter infringed on the competence and authority of the TRNC Parliament and that the Turkish names should be retained, and proposed that the old names be shown in brackets.

Mustafa Serdengeçti, becoming very angry when the proposal that it was necessary to retain Turkish names was made, said the following: “I am Cypriot; I did not come from Central Asia. I have no connection or ties with Anatolia. Do not mess with my culture. The Turkish names should be removed and the old names should be used.”
Culture Department Head Mustafa Hastürk, who had been appointed as chairman of the Council, and Tuncer Bağışkan, who had been appointed by the CTP-DP government to the post of Council General Secretary, supported the motion to change Turkish names in their speeches.
After the motion to change Turkish names was approved with the votes of CTP and DP members in the vote which was held, Culture Department Head Mustafa Hastürk said the following in his speech: “The CTP-DP government will pay heed to this decision. This decision, after it has been discussed in the Council of Ministers, will be promulgated in the Official Gazette and will be made law by the CTP-DP majority in Parliament.”
WHAT DID SERDAR DENKTAŞ SAY?
Deputy Prime-Minister and Foreign Minister Serdar Denktaş, who has been forced to comment following coverage in our newspaper VOLKAN, which has reacted strongly to the decision taken by the CTP-DP government at the Third Culture and Arts Congress which was convened by the Ministry of National Education and Culture on 3-7 April 2006 for village, street and place names which have been turkified since 1958 to revert to their former names, said the following in a speech he made from the parliamentary rostrum on 20 April 2006:
“ I do not understand how the decision was passed at the Third Culture and Arts Congress to change Turkish place, street and village names. However, as long as we are part of the government, this decision will not be implemented.”
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Postby Nikitas » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:43 pm

Tim thank you for this latest post.

At least it shows that some people who live north of the ethnic divide retain awareness of Cypriot culture. Something tells me that in everyday speaking Turkish Cypriots themselves use the customary names they used in the past and not the artificial names introduced in the Turkification process.
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Postby Nikitas » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:51 pm

Deniz thank you for the pointers to the name of Komi Kebir, interesing that the original founders called Big Town, even though back then it must have been tiny! A case of civic pride no doubt.

Someone should research the place names, in all languages and trace the roots of the meaning, because so much would be revealed that would help us all appreciate our surroundings.
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Postby denizaksulu » Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:04 pm

Nikitas wrote:Deniz thank you for the pointers to the name of Komi Kebir, interesing that the original founders called Big Town, even though back then it must have been tiny! A case of civic pride no doubt.

Someone should research the place names, in all languages and trace the roots of the meaning, because so much would be revealed that would help us all appreciate our surroundings.


I often get my magnifying glass out to study ancient names on Maps of Cyprus circa 1570 and before. It is fascinating to see the original names, whether they are gree, cypriot or Latin, French Arabic or whatever peoples languages were. A married Classical Greek scholar married to a Latin scholar would be an ideal set up for such worh. It is a pity I am neither. That is my loss.
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