Cyprus-Forum.com

[EPSILON]

Papadopoulos a lawyer that specialises in international affairs GR? Where did you unearth this gem from? Can you provide some proofs? Surely you do not mean the shady deals of his office with the dictator of Serbia or the numerous offshore companies (sic) that sprung to life thanks to his office?

Gul now. His elections constitutes a major shift in political thinking in Turkey. The army, however, is not defeated and if there is going to be a smooth transition to a civil state, the army must not be seen to be defeated or humiliated because there probably will be a backlash in this case. It is going to be a slow process, a step by step process which will only be completed once Turkey becomes a full member of the EU. Gul seems the right person for this and I do hope he succeeds. Another thing, we often get carried away and think that the sun rises every morning because of Cyprus. Of course we are justified to place the cyprob as our number one priority but countries such as Turkey have other pressing priorities too. We would be wise to show some sensitivity to this too.

Another thing that bothers me is the forlorn hope many people live on in Cyprus that the end of our problems will come when Turkey disintegrates into smithereens. This reminds me of a person that dreams on winning the lottery in order to solve his financial problems. Dreaming that winning the lottery is not half as bad as expecting Turkey to disintegrate. This is because you start living in a make believe world and you remain inactive while others shape the future.

In a nutshell, we should understand that Turkey is here to stay and make peace with this. Furthermore we should try to make the most of the presence of this country, in a positive way. If we start thinking along these lines it will make it easy for the civil government of Turkey to work with us in finding a just and lasting solution. Gul also needs the encouragement in order to fend off any pressure from the die harts.

Fully agree on the general position stated herein. Gcs must realise that they must make some basic changes on their daily attendance to the Cyprus problem themselves and not to wait miracles to help them.

Why i have the feeling that the only part of Gcs society which is dealling with the problem is the state's officials and nobody else? Watching progress in TV is not a sufficient effort.

Someone can ask me and what Iam doing different than these i blame to watch the problem through the tv? Beilieve me many!!!and on small is my participation in this forum

[bigOz]

I would like to point out that I, for one, do not wish Turkey to disintegrate. Quite the contrary – I wish it all the best and continue to support Abdullah Gul in his efforts to join the EU.

Good luck

Chances of Turkey gaining EU entry, pre-Gul = 0%

Chances of Turkey gaining EU entry, post-Gul = 0%

Find some other suckers for your third world, backward nation to join.

Pip-pip
Phoenix

Says the descendant of those who killed off Socrates!

[CopperLine]

That Gul has been elected president seems to be a good thing. As foreign minister he did more than any of his recent predecessors to engage with Europe. As a cabinet minister he did more than most to reform Turkey's repressive penal system. As a member of government he has done more than most in organising a more democratic Turkey. So far so good.

Fears of army action against the AKP in general and Gul and Erdogan in particular are real and serious. Any direct intervention by the army would be a disaster for all, both in Turkey and outside Turkey.

And for Cyprus, the worst you can say about Gul is that he is the best of a bad lot. But being more positive, you might also say that he's been the most active in trying to come to some resolution of the Cyprus question, at least through his active support of the Annan Plan. (I know that there are lots of people who are opposed to the Plan, but the reality is that up until the referendum that was the only game in town). If we ask which is the more powerful opponent to Gul regarding Cyprus, the Turkish army or the RoC, I'd say every time that it has been the Turkish army. Thus if the Turkish army can be contained and democratically controlled then this bodes well for Cyprus.

Finally, I've got to say with some exasperation, that some of the comments about Turkish politics and Turkish democracy being 'medieval' or such like are frankly idiotic. Idiotic because if the posters believe the descriptions they themselves give of a backward, brutal, barbarian society then they're only deluding themselves.

[Pyrpolizer]

CooperLine,

You talked in the past for the power of the Military in various economic sectors in Turkey.
birkibrisli talked in the past for the so called "islamic capital" meaning economic sectors controlled by hard core islamists.

Do you see and clash between the 2 economic powers, or is the clush between the Army and AKP only ideoligical?

[kalahari]

Copperline, I share your exasperation, but I have found that the best way to deal with these posters is to simply ignore them, in the same way one ignores the grafitti around the fountain at St Nick's!

[karma]

CooperLine,

You talked in the past for the power of the Military in various economic sectors in Turkey.
birkibrisli talked in the past for the so called "islamic capital" meaning economic sectors controlled by hard core islamists.

Do you see and clash between the 2 economic powers, or is the clush between the Army and AKP only ideoligical?

both...army doesnt wana spend any penny on head scarfs

[CopperLine]

Pyropolizer,
Needless to say the army is a very powerful institution in Turkey, and the return of the AKP and the election of Gul is certainly not an end to the army's power. Indeed the army's power is not only decades in the making but it will be many decades in the unmaking. The struggle between the AKP (and many other parties and movements) with the army is going to run and run.

For what it is worth I have never been persuaded that the struggle in Turkey over the last ten or fifteen years has been between a rising Islamist movement bent on destroying the secular foundations of the state. This is the story which the old established elite, including the army, in Turkey believed and continue to believe with a passion and which is the basic story which is reported by the major news agencies around the world.

The headscarf question is symbolically of high profile, of course, but it is quite diversionary to the real and substantial changes that have been going on in Turkish society and politics for well over a decade. Also I'm not convinced of the idea of 'hardcore Islamists' - neither that they are numerous nor that they are particularly powerful. The best days of the thoroughly secular business families of Sabanci and Koc have been during AKP rule. Have these so-called Islamists fought against the liberal capitalism of IMF and World Bank imposed privatisations, public spending cuts and so on ? No, on the contrary they've simply asked how can we privatise faster, how can we sell even more of our national capital to international capital. The AKP is, contrary to the old elite story, the secular state's best friend, the EU's best negotiator and even the US's loyal ally.

I say all of this as an atheist, as an anti-nationalist and no friend of the AKP.

[kalahari]

There's a thought...

[humanist]

I wish Gul proves to be a good President. A prosperous and democratic Turkey will benefit all the people in this part of the world.

I hope a president for a prosperous democratic nation, means that he will not violate the sovereignty of another nation. Therefore withdrwing its troops from Cyprus and requests the UN to take up the role of protecting the Turkish speaking Cypriot community.

[karma]

Pyropolizer,
Needless to say the army is a very powerful institution in Turkey, and the return of the AKP and the election of Gul is certainly not an end to the army's power. Indeed the army's power is not only decades in the making but it will be many decades in the unmaking. The struggle between the AKP (and many other parties and movements) with the army is going to run and run.

For what it is worth I have never been persuaded that the struggle in Turkey over the last ten or fifteen years has been between a rising Islamist movement bent on destroying the secular foundations of the state. This is the story which the old established elite, including the army, in Turkey believed and continue to believe with a passion and which is the basic story which is reported by the major news agencies around the world.

The headscarf question is symbolically of high profile, of course, but it is quite diversionary to the real and substantial changes that have been going on in Turkish society and politics for well over a decade. Also I'm not convinced of the idea of 'hardcore Islamists' - neither that they are numerous nor that they are particularly powerful. The best days of the thoroughly secular business families of Sabanci and Koc have been during AKP rule. Have these so-called Islamists fought against the liberal capitalism of IMF and World Bank imposed privatisations, public spending cuts and so on ? No, on the contrary they've simply asked how can we privatise faster, how can we sell even more of our national capital to international capital. The AKP is, contrary to the old elite story, the secular state's best friend, the EU's best negotiator and even the US's loyal ally.
I say all of this as an atheist, as an anti-nationalist and no friend of the AKP.

it is sad to see how people believe all these fairy tales...they r the Mollas ruled by Zionists...I wish I was wrong but I am not...