Cyprus-Forum.com

[BigDutch]

As someone of non-Cypriot descent that married into a GC family i have been interested for many years in the Cyprus problem, its cause(s) and results etc, i have always tried to keep an open mind and research for a 2nd side to the story before making my opinions on events. I tend to find that i understand more of both sides stories than anyone i have discussed within the immediate family, who all appear to be almost closet turk haters, even those young enough to have never seen any Cyprus troubles, anyway we have been thinking to take a trip into the Turkish occupied area since for a number of years but for various reasons it has never been convenient for all of our interested group.

Having realised that yesterday was going to be convenient we decided to go for it. We arrived at the check-point in Astromeritis at around 10:30, and aside from spotting the (presumed) number plate camera on the RoC checkpoint we passed through the unmanned cabins without issue. After a short drive through the buffer zone we arrived at the Turkish checkpoint and parked up behind another car.

We took out our passports and i left the car and approached the 2nd hut which said immigration control. The occupant took my passport and then asked if i had insurance specifically for the "TRNC", I replied no (my RoC insurance are unable to provide service to the occupied area) and i was advised i needed to have insurance for my car before i could cross. My wife starting filling in the "visas" whilst i went to arrange the insurance. CY£10 later i have my document and with our "visas" stamped, our details entered into the computer we loaded back up and get moving. So the paper-work took about 20 minutes to resolve, during which many other people (non-ROC cars) just flashed what looked like small cards and after a nod jumped back in their cars and carried on. Within 20m of where we were a uniformed staff member (with a gun in holster so presume a security related person) stopped my car demanding to see my driving license. I searched in the car and realised i must have left it at home 2 hours away. I explained that i do hold a full license however appear to have left it at home. The person roughly replied "you cannot drive with us". I said that i have car insurance and immigration have stamped my visa so why i cannot pass, to which the person just walked off, ignoring my "excuse me sir, have you finished?". I then went down from the car and asked another person in uniform what was the problem that i was insured etc but i cannot pass. They didn't understand why so checked with person#1 who in Turkish replied something and person#2 relayed to me that without license i cannot take the car, but we could walk or pile into our fellow travellers car and leave mine there - very safe to have 8 people in a car designed for 4 - surely that would count against any road safety ?! And walking to Kyrenia would take a looooooooooong time.

At this point it appeared that all those that spoke English beforehand now were unable to understand my questions, or made themselves busy in their cabins. So as we didn't know why we couldn't pass we waited. A car behind us asked me in English what was the problem and i said i couldn't pass without my driving license being presented and he said did i have insurance to which i replied yes. He then said well that is strange as the only time you will need your license is to validate any insurance claim that you need to make. He then spoke in Turkish to the nearest uniform and after a discussion person#1 was summoned and involved in the discussion again. The man from the car behind then said that person#1 was in charge and that whilst it was unusual that there was nothing anyone could do, that without the driving license the insurance would be invalid ?!!!

So we decided that we would now have to turn back so i went back to the insurance cabin and explained that i couldn't now use the insurance because i didn't have my license that i expected a refund. Again the occupant suddenly couldn't speak English so i shouted out for someone that could. When an English speaker arrived i asked why i was given insurance without my driving license being requested considering person#1 won't let me pass as the insurance is invalid without the driving license ....... i received the Cypriot shrug. I asked about a refund "no" was the reply. But its not even been 45 minutes since you "issued" the document and as its only a paper "pad" rather than a computerised system can you not just give me the refund and screw up the policy ? "no". I was now severly aggravated and let the occupant know that i thought it was ludicrous and effectively daylight robbery, without translation the occupant smirked and said "what will you do?". I returned to the car and turned around and drove back into the government controlled area and headed home, passing through the seemingly unoccupied RoC checkpoint.

Of course CY£10 isn't a lot of cash but i feel robbed. Why was person#1 so adament that i couldn't cross when all others appeared not-fussed ? Of all the 30 or so vehicles passing whilst we were there we were the only "RoC" registered numberplate, and for nearly an hour why was my car the only one stopped by person#1 and asked to show a drivers license ? Was it because we were the only obviously "GC" people trying to cross in the hour ? If it was this difficult to get CY£10 returned for a service that was sold "illegally" to me, what if i had to even make an insurance claim - how difficult would that be?! So first impressions of "TRNC". Keen to receive money, not ready to give it back. Keen to record details of those entering and leaving even when i arrive in London from RoC they never do this ! Keen to ensure one set of rules for "us" another set of rules for "them" ? Keen to make the transfer of GC into the occupied areas as difficult as possible in reality but publically state its easy to continue the public relations battle ?

Whilst this hasn't put me off travelling into the occupied areas it did surprise me how serious are crossing was taken by the Turkish staff and how carefree the RoC staff were. It did occur to me that some things were a tad hypocritical, namely the request of driving license which no-one else had to do, assuming that those with "TRNC" number plates were legal to drive, but me with RoC plates needed to "prove" i was able to drive. That if i had displayed a RoC license would it have been accepted considering "TRNC" doesn't recognise the the RoC ? How can one get insurance for a car without providing any certification on the road "worthyness" of the vehicle ?! The defacto EU border into RoC was on the face of it completely uncontrolled but the checkpoint into "TRNC" was well staffed, some with guns - could this be the clearest example of how different the "TRNC" is compared to the RoC ?

Still looking forward to seeing the view from the Kyrenia mountains down to the northern coast of the island !

[Viewpoint]

Sorry to hear about your problems when crossing BigDutch but in the TRNC it is a crime not to produce your DL when asked by an official, you were lucky you were not fined on the spot like we are.

One plus point is your insurance is still valid and you can cross whenever you wish with you driving licence of course.

[tessintrnc]

Please come and visit Kyrenia BigDutch, you will find it a very friendly place!! I dont know of any place that will allow you to drive without a driving licence!! My friends who crossed to the South in their car - also left the licence at home and were not permitted either - so both sides are hot on that!!
Tess

[Eliko]

BigDutch, whether or not you recognise the validity of the TRNC, you should know that there are likely to be certain requirements/restrictions at the border crossings.

You cannot blame the personnel (military or otherwise) for refusing you entry on account of your own lack of foresight.

Those who "flashed their cards" (as you put it) are probably regular and recognised persons, perfectly entitled to cross without delay since they probably do so on a daily basis.

If you abide by the rules which should be obvious to us all , you will encounter no problems in either direction, the insurance is absolutely essential and in your case still valid.

I realise you may feel a little hard done by to have lost your cash, being a Dutchman you will be possibly more 'pained' by the loss than most of us, look on the bright side mate, you came back from the encounter a little wiser than you were before.

[Sotos]

those thieves stole from me my property that worths many 1000s and you think they would bother with your 10 pounds?. I would not give them a cent. If I want to travel I would go to some nice place not to those criminals!!

[BigDutch]

I`m not upset by anything more than lack of upfront information at the checkpoint to make it obvious to non-Turkish speakers what is required :

1) You will need "TRNC" insurance
2) You will need your passport/id card and complete a visa
3) You will need your driving license
4) Your personal details will be recorded

At least i could have then turned back before paying money, waiting nearly an hour for a translation on why i can't pass or get my money back and having my ID details entered for unknown reasons.

Most of our party were angry to show any identification to have to visit their birth village but a quick and clear process would have got us through without adding ammunition to their feelings about the occupation forces.

Sotos - our party was mostly GC refugees and descendents hoping to visit the villages the parents grew up in to let them remember and to see the natural sites of the occupied areas. There are many donums of land that belong to these family members that are occupied, and two women lost their husbands shortly after the Turkish invasion so i can certainly understand your sentiments.

[Eliko]

those thieves stole from me my property that worths many 1000s and you think they would bother with your 10 pounds? Fuck them. I would not give them a cent. If I want to travel I would go to some nice place not to those criminals!!

Sotos, I fully appreciate your sentiments since I too could bemoan my fate on account of 'dispossession'.

My family has suffered severely on account of such issues, I am sure you would be amazed at the extent of such (were I inclined to reveal all the details), my father was from Rizokarpaso, my relatives (through marriage) from Davlos and Morfou, ALL substantial land owners.

The fact that they have all been deprived of their rights does not embolden me to embrace the tenets of hatred against the ordinary Cypriot population (regardless of their beliefs), since I am of the opinion that no animosity would exist were it not for political persuasion.

The ability to place oneself in the shoes of another is helpful when involved in heated discussions, each of us has a right to exist and should understand that fact.

The politicians ARE to blame for all the dis-harmony that is now affecting our daily lives, the current situation will not be resolved by the ordinary people it will again be the result of what THEY want.

The geographical position of Cyprus is the biggest drawback to a fair settlement of all disputes, We, the people will have no say in the outcome.

Meanwhile, you cannot blame ordinary people for grabbing what they perceive to be a better life for themselves, God Bless them all, there are enough problems in the world without adding personal hatreds into the equation, (Lest it be directed at those who created the problems).

No disrespect to you Sotos, just a different perception of the same issues mate.

[EPSILON]

The important point in this story is that about 2 pounds of the ten given for the insurance will go as taxes to the invators bank, providing foot and guns to the invasion army

[kafenes]

The important point in this story is that about 2 pounds of the ten given for the insurance will go as taxes to the invators bank, providing foot and guns to the invasion army

And the other 8 to the mafia.

[humanist]

BigDutch, thank you for your post ........ a lesson to be learnt for me. I was planning on visiting the occupied areas in mid late November when I will be visiting Cyprus, though I have just changed my mind and feeling quite okay with that. Thanks for sharing your experience.

My understanding is that Morphou is the base for Grey Wolves so perhaps that has something to do with it, being so close to Astromeritis.

Once again thanks