Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Humanist

The territory thing is one of the toughest parts of the solution. There are all kinds of thoughts, some obvious some not so obvious.

The closer the territory issue solution follows ownership the less likelihood there is for discontent in the future. However ownership by itself is not enough because there is governement and church and evkaf land in the mix. So the population proportions are another guideline to ensure minimum resistance (feelings of unfairness) in the future, the 18-82 or there abouts proportions.

In addition there are military, economic, and political considerations to include in this, and not much of this was discussed during the Annan phase by anyone except the Turkish High Command who demanded delineation lines they considered defensible.

The one thought we must address is the possible future secession by one of the states from a federal structure. Having defined borders, legal personality, a national culture etc it will be much easier in the future for a breakaway state of a federation to claim recognition. It is a cynical thought but we have got to think of it and discuss it openly.

Also territory is not just land area, the length of coastline is a major factor too. As is the shape of each component state on the map, a Greek component state split in two by the Dekelia base is a situation proposed in ALL the Annan maps that accompanied the Plan. It is not wise to accept such a shape.

Sounds like a lot of talk on territory, but I believe that the fairer the territory settlement is perceived to be by the people the more likely it is to lead to a working compromise on the remaining issues like settlement, movement, ownership etc. So in my view it ranks close to the top.

Judging from past experience, essentially pre 1963 experience, the communities like to live in areas populated by their ethnic brothers. This is a natural impulse and in a federal system it will naturally arise (my opinion). So there will be areas in the south were Turkish Cypriots decide to settle as there will be areas in the north where Greek Cypriots do the same, applying the rights of settlement, ownership etc in a federal structure. However overall I believe the communities will start by living within the borders of their component states out of choice while they may have businesses etc in the other state. At some point there may also be a development along class or affluence lines, like rich people of both communities tending to congregate let us say in exclusive (and expensive) areas. Once the trends move from ethnic criteria to class and others we will know that the BBF is working!

These are thougths, not cast in stone or claimed to be the product of a wise and infallible intellect, so do not all jump on me at once!

[Get Real!]

Helen it's very difficult to understand anything in here. This arguing and never agreeing is part of our Cypriot culture.

You are better off staying away from the Cyprob section of the forum. Instead of wasting your time and effort reading heaps of garbage in here, you're better off spending your time reading the detailed Cyprus conflict site I recommended in my PM.

Oh please share this link T_C... others want to learn too!


Catch them members early and "teach" them in private! What do you charge for your private tutes T_C I wanna sign up!

[free_cyprus]

i really dont know what all the fuss is about regarding cyprus, and all this conflict stuff,theres no cypriots in cyprus, they are simply greeks and turks, what im looking for is cypriots, but i guess geneside must have been commited by the somany who have invaded and killed all cypriot people, since theres no evidence that there is any cypriots left. but the good news is cyprus is filled with greeks and turks whoooooraaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[humanist]

What is interesting no Turkish Cypriot has posted on this topic. Is it possible that they are not interested in BBF or any other form of Unification but rather supporting moves fr partition?

[Nikitas]

Humanist, perhaps it is that BBF is very much akin to partition but with a sugar coating that they have not posted, there is no need from their point of view. Just a thought.

[denizaksulu]

what does bbf stand for?

Err, that's just a Buffet Breakfast feast. They help forget the painful past...

My treat GetReal

[Get Real!]

what does bbf stand for?

Err, that's just a Buffet Breakfast feast. They help forget the painful past...

My treat GetReal

I wonder if what's-his-name above made a reservation...

[denizaksulu]

The content of BBF (Bizonal Bicommunal Federation) has never been agreed.

It seems the Turkish side translates that to 2 separate states that will just join together to have a common face in external affairs and the EU.
In fact they want:

a)A guaranteed or manipulated small number of refugees returning
b)To get to own the majority of (now illegally grabbed) GC properties through a scheme of compensations that the GCs will pay themselves.
c)A totally separate management of their "state" where they will be the absolute majority because there is no way for them to otherwise feel "first class citizens"
d)Absolutely no interference and on merging in business (because they say the GCs are economically stronger and they will subordinate them economically if they are let free to do bussiness in "their state")

These as far as BBF is concerned. Add to that the standard burdens they want to load us,IN ANY TYPE OF SOLUTION like

i) an equal number of Tuirkish settlers over and above the population of the TCs ii)A Loooong stay of the Turkish army to guarantee everything that gives the GCs any land back will be postponed indefinetely
ii)Loading all responsibility for all the illegalilties they ve done for 30 years like selling our stolen lands to foreigners, or donating them for free to settlers, to the new state.

AND MANY MORE ......

I would say not only BBF but any solution within the above lines is NEVER going to be accepted by the GCs.

You sit down at atable, put down your 'demands' and negotiate/fight it out

[denizaksulu]

what does bbf stand for?

Err, that's just a Buffet Breakfast feast. They help forget the painful past...

My treat GetReal

I wonder if what's-his-name above made a reservation...

Alzheimers! surely not.

[Pyrpolizer]

The content of BBF (Bizonal Bicommunal Federation) has never been agreed.

It seems the Turkish side translates that to 2 separate states that will just join together to have a common face in external affairs and the EU.
In fact they want:

a)A guaranteed or manipulated small number of refugees returning
b)To get to own the majority of (now illegally grabbed) GC properties through a scheme of compensations that the GCs will pay themselves.
c)A totally separate management of their "state" where they will be the absolute majority because there is no way for them to otherwise feel "first class citizens"
d)Absolutely no interference and on merging in business (because they say the GCs are economically stronger and they will subordinate them economically if they are let free to do bussiness in "their state")

These as far as BBF is concerned. Add to that the standard burdens they want to load us,IN ANY TYPE OF SOLUTION like

i) an equal number of Tuirkish settlers over and above the population of the TCs ii)A Loooong stay of the Turkish army to guarantee everything that gives the GCs any land back will be postponed indefinetely
ii)Loading all responsibility for all the illegalilties they ve done for 30 years like selling our stolen lands to foreigners, or donating them for free to settlers, to the new state.

AND MANY MORE ......

I would say not only BBF but any solution within the above lines is NEVER going to be accepted by the GCs.

You sit down at atable, put down your 'demands' and negotiate/fight it out

The table is there, it's called "8th July agreement" set and decorated with flowers by the UN, and all our demands are in the menu.

Where's Talat????