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How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby erolz » Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:01 am

paliometoxo wrote: it does not make re unification easier only a 5 yr old baby would believe that...


Yet it is the policy of both the UN and the agreed policy of the EU's highest policy setting body agreed by all those attending this policy setting meeting including the RoC's foreign minsiter of the time.

paliometoxo wrote:talat is full of crap


I think you mean the UN and the EU council (including the RoC) is full of crap. Assuming of course you are trying to make sense that is rather than just rant.
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Postby Kikapu » Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:05 am

erolz wrote:
paliometoxo wrote:that rubbish why would turkey need isolations lifted if they want peace and re unified land?


Ending the isolation of the TC community post annan plan is the stated policy of the UN and the AGREED policy of the EU and the reason is to make future reunification easier.

From the 2576th EU Council meeting in Luxembourg, 26 April 2004

http://ue.eu.int/ueDocs/cms_Data/docs/p ... /80142.pdf

The Council is determined to put an end to the isolation of the Turkish Cypriot communityand to facilitate the reunification of Cyprus by encouraging the economic development of theTurkish Cypriot community. The Council invited the Commission to bring forward comprehensive proposals to this end, with particular emphasis on the economic integration of the island and on improving contact between the two communities and with the EU.


Oh and from the list of attendees at this meeting where EU policy is AGREED and SET at the highest level we have

Cyprus :Mr George IACOVOU Minister for Foreign Affairs


Erolz,


From the 2576th EU Council meeting in Luxembourg, 26 April 2004

So what happened to what the EU wanted to happen Erolz, regarding the lifting of the isolation of the "TRNC". Does this mean, that the EU does not see peace on the horizon, therefore the isolation will not be lifted. Could this have been an "idle threat" for the RoC, that should they vote NO on the AP, the TC's will be the winners regardless, just to add pressure on them to accept the AP. I'm only asking the question, because it has been over 3 years since that meeting, and nothing has changed.

By the way, is this the "EU promise" that you quoted above was to lift isolation of the "TRNC" as well as rewarding a "YES" vote on the AP by the TC's, that Turkey and the "TRNC" are always quoting.

If so, obviously the EU has not taking seriously to what they said or "promised", which brings me back to the "idle threat" point that I made above.

Which do you think it was.??
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Postby erolz » Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:32 am

Firstly my post was in response to paliometoxo post that suggested that Turkey wanting the lifting of isolation of TC would not promote reunification. I was pointing out this is not a view shared by the UN or the EU.

Kikapu wrote: Could this have been an "idle threat" for the RoC, that should they vote NO on the AP, the TC's will be the winners regardless, just to add pressure on them to accept the AP.


It does not make sense that this was an idle threat made to promote a yes vote from GC because this EU policy was set 2 days AFTER the Annan Plan vote.

Kikapu wrote:
I'm only asking the question, because it has been over 3 years since that meeting, and nothing has changed.


It is not true that nothing has changed. The fact that is is now UN and EU policy, even if there had been total failure to achieve the policy is a change. In fact there have been some minor sucsesses in achienving the policy set but much remains to be done.

Kikapu wrote:By the way, is this the "EU promise" that you quoted above was to lift isolation of the "TRNC" as well as rewarding a "YES" vote on the AP by the TC's, that Turkey and the "TRNC" are always quoting.


This is not a promise. This is the agreed stated offical EU policy on the matter.

Kikapu wrote:If so, obviously the EU has not taking seriously to what they said or "promised", which brings me back to the "idle threat" point that I made above.

Which do you think it was.??


Actually the EU commission, charged with finding proposals to meet this policy has been working hard and continues to do so to meet this EU policy, as it is its job to do. That the RoC has so far mamanged to block these comission proposals on some major fronts to date does not mean the EU does not take its policy objectives seriously. It will contionue to try and end the isolation of the TCs and the RoC , despite agreeing to this policy, will no doubt continue to try and block proposals that it considers are not acceptable to it. It still remains to be seen if the EU and its policy objectives can 'win out' against RoC blocking manouvers or if the RoC will remain able to be the tail that wags the EU dog on this issue indefinately without cost to itself. I blieve that Turkey , having made a major, historic and unprecedented move in signing the custome union protocal is waiting to see whihc is the case before implenting it. If the EU and its policy objectives can be seen to win out against RoC blocking based on parocial interest , then I believe that it will implement the customs union protocal with the RoC. If however the EU prooves unable to implement its own policy objectives in the face of RoC parocial blocking then I think Turkey will continue to refuse to implement the protocal it signed. To me I think this is a 'test case' for Turkey on the issue of if the EU with the RoC as a member can be part of the solution to finding a settlement or if it will end up being part of the problem.

If the former happens then Turkish accession can get back on track, which is good news for GC, for continued accession of Turkey creates some leverage, good for Cyprus in general , good for Turkey and good for the EU and the region. If however the later proves to be the case I think it is bad for all.
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Postby Piratis » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:15 am

The EU never said anything about isolation of the so called "trnc". It talked about the TC community who are part of the EU member Cyprus.

Cyprus is doing everything possible to help the law obeying TCs. Beyond that, if TCs continue to have some problems those are due to the illegal Turkish occupation, and if they want those problems to end then they should help (instead of opposing) the efforts of Republic of Cyprus to end this illegality that violates international law and the human rights of all Cypriots. (most of which are much more serous that any "isolation")

Our (EU) efforts to help the TC community should not be confused with the efforts of the Turkish regime to give recognition to their pseudo state and permanently partition our island. It goes without saying that those that support illegalities and crimes should suffer the consequences and not to be rewarded.
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:58 am

erolz wrote:
The Council is determined to put an end to the isolation of the Turkish Cypriot community and to facilitate the reunification of Cyprus by encouraging the economic development of theTurkish Cypriot community. The Council invited the Commission to bring forward comprehensive proposals to this end, with particular emphasis on the economic integration of the island and on improving contact between the two communities and with the EU.




The key here is that any economic steps MUST fascilitate the re-unification of the island, not cement partition. Direct trade and direct flights (the key issues that are burning you) will definitely give legal status to the pseudo state, and hence cement partition. The RoC is absolutely justified to object.

Furthermore:It has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt the "direct trade issue" is nothing more than an effort by your side, to gain at least partial recognition of the pseudo. The green line regulations as prepared by the EU include almost everything the TCs could export. Yet last year there has only been ONE EXPORT of total value CYP1000 !!!!! (turkish delights).

So the obvious question is:Are the total exports the whole TC community can ever do, only worth 1000 pounds???
Certainly NOT. However they are already doing their exports using ships that do transhipments via Turkey. Even if they would have the option to do direct exports they would still use ships doing transhipments, the same way the GCs do. It is extremely rare for any Cypriot to export whole ship loads and use ships that call directly at ports.

As for aifreight exports this almost always includes fresh vegetables. So far the TCs found it easier and profitable to sell their fresh vegetables to the GC market via the green line regulation.
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Postby humanist » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:19 am

Is it me or my perverted sense of humor, but didn't the Turkish speaking Cypriots benefit more from the RoC's EU membership than Turkey's talks for membership


pls
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:19 am

Spot on humanist!

But it seems to me the TCs have just one special gene in their blood. That of "always complining" :lol:
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Postby Nikitas » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:41 pm

Is the assumption that Turkey wants a separate and internationally recognised TRNC valid?

If tomorrow the Republic of Cyprus by unilateral act ceded part of its territory to the Turkish Cypriot community and instantly recognises it as an independent state, would that be welocmed by Turkey, Britain and the US?

My suspicion is that the first to react with charges of illegality would be Turkey closely followed by Britain with the US sending all kinds of envoys to fix the problem.
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Postby EPSILON » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:56 pm

paliometoxo wrote:ending isolation in the north will make the turkish do nothing! it does not make re unification easier only a 5 yr old baby would believe that... it makes a step towards TRNC being recognised it means when they have no isolations they have no reason to budge towards re unification

talat is full of crap


Dear Friend, you make a basic mistake- Gcs have not the power or the right to lift isolation. Isolation is applied in line with the International law (by UN) since this fake state is a result of an invasion.
Only the lift of the invasion can lift the isolation and this has nothing to do with ROC .
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Postby humanist » Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:02 pm

Yes Nikitas

Yes Nikitas




Is that a fact EPSILON
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