Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Dear Kik-a-poo (ever thought of that one? ) )

Thanks GR.

If you don't mind, I would like to use the above phrase now and again on certain members.

Do I get your permission to do that, since you're the "Patent Holder".

[humanist]

GR you never cease to amaze me and make me laugh :)

[Get Real!]

Dear Kik-a-poo (ever thought of that one? ) )

Thanks GR.

If you don't mind, I would like to use the above phrase now and again on certain members.

Do I get your permission to do that, since you're the "Patent Holder".

Where did you dig that one up? It's funny how you often respond to things like 3 weeks later...

It's all yours bud!

[Get Real!]

GR you never cease to amaze me and make me laugh :)

Can I tempt you with an autograph at just CY 15.00 + VAT ???


Thanks Humanist...

[Kikapu]

Dear Kik-a-poo (ever thought of that one? ) )

Thanks GR.

If you don't mind, I would like to use the above phrase now and again on certain members.

Do I get your permission to do that, since you're the "Patent Holder".

Where did you dig that one up? It's funny how you often respond to things like 3 weeks later...

It's all yours bud!

Thanks GR.

I try to read everything that is written on the forum with interest, but do not always have time to respond at that time, so I store it in the back of my Brain until I have time for them.

Of course, that all depends how much Kik-a-poo I need to do with Zan, which may delays things for me even longer.

[zan]

Dear Kik-a-poo (ever thought of that one? ) )

Thanks GR.

If you don't mind, I would like to use the above phrase now and again on certain members.

Do I get your permission to do that, since you're the "Patent Holder".

Where did you dig that one up? It's funny how you often respond to things like 3 weeks later...

It's all yours bud!

Thanks GR.

I try to read everything that is written on the forum with interest, but do not always have time to respond at that time, so I store it in the back of my Brain until I have time for them.

Of course, that all depends how much Kik-a-poo I need to do with Zan, which may delays things for me even longer.

Get your poo boots on and do up the laces real tight, It's going to be a hard game....


You didn't answer my question on another thread though.....Doing a Birkibrisli on me????

[free_cyprus]

does anyone have anything costructive to say in this forum, how we can move on and find a solution for cyprus.

[bigOz]

When the same report says directly the following then your interpretations are not needed. You have been doing then what you are doing now, and what you have been doing since the 50s. As if there is any doubt about what your aim is.

It is not an interpretation to know that ingnoring ones own consitutional court rulings is illegal. It is not interpretation to know that ignoring ones own constitution is illegal. It is not interpretation to know that setting up armed bands of ethnic thugs used to kill and intimidate innocent TC is illegal. It is not interpretation to know that Clerides demands to unilateral non negotiable changes to the agreed consitution in favour of GC and to the detrmiment of TC, before he would 'allow' TC to take up their legal government positions, was illegal. They were all clearly illegal - but that does not matter if illegalites benefit GC. Illegality only matters if GC lose, then it is the single and only important thing.

You do not ask the reequired questions, if your goal is objective understanding of what occured and why, as to WHY the TC leadership pursued such a policy and more importantly WHY it was able to gain so much support from it from ordianary TC. You do not ask this question because it involves looking at YOUR communites actions and responsibilites. So you just do not do it. You do not ask what effect on support for seperation amongst ordianary TC the GC communities pursuist of the ethnic divisive and exculding objective of enosis had. You do not ask what role the post 60's GC leaderships refusal to implement that which had previously agreed had. What effect the illegal refusal to abide by consituional court rulings had. What affect appointing a vicious racist thug like Yiorjardis to the interior ministry had. What effect his romaing bands of ethnic killers had. What effect driving TC from their homes at gunpoint and burning the hoes after they left had. The reason you ignore all of these questions is that you have no interest in objective understanding , only in propaganda.

If you had any complaints then why you didn't take RoC to international courts? Why there are no UN resolutions or anything of that sort placing the blame on the GCs as you do? (in the same way that UN declared your pseudo state as legally invalid)

There was no 'international court' that had jusrisdiction and could stop your leaderships illegalites. Your leadership knew this. They knew that the only thing that could ultimatley stop their illegalites was Turkey. If you think the TC community could have challenged and stopped these illegalites at the ECHR at that time it just shows you know nothing of the history of the ECHR.

Apparently Erolz you want to be the Judge, but sorry you are not. You can have any opinion you want, but you can not decide what is legal and what is not based on your own interpretations.

But Clerides in 65 could be Judge and just decide

14.The Government position was that certain
provisions of the constitution which conferred a special status
on the Turkish Cypriot community could no longer be considered as
being in effect;

and

Finally,
Mr.Clerides stated that unless the Turkish Cypriot members
accepted the conditions laid down by him, he found it pointless
to supply to them copies of the pending bills.­

and

However, since the Government
had stated that it no longer recognized Dr. Kuchuk in his capacity as
Vice-President, this latter provision of the constitution was
inapplicable in practice.­

and

He [clerides] made
it plain that, unless agreement was reached on these matters, he
would not permit the Turkish Cypriot members to attend the House.
Mr.Clerides also stated that the constitutional provisions
concerning promulgation of the laws by the President and the
Vice-President were no longer applicable. He subsequently stated
that in his opinion the Turkish Cypriot members had no legal
standing any more in the House.­

It is because the GC leadership showed its DETERMINATION to do as it liked with NO REGARD for legality in its pursuit of illegaly removing the TC communites rights that those TC elements that wanted division as a politcal ideal were able to gain so much support from ordianry TC.

Having acted in the most clearly illegal was the GC leadership was then rewarded for it's illegalites and violence and aggression by the international community with 'recognition'. It was rewarded with such because it was expedient to the world powers at the time to do so, not because such was just or legal. This is clear. So havin gained a massive advantage through the use of illegality and the rewarding of such by the international community placing self interest and expediency pefore justic and international leglaity, you now lecture the TC about ignoring legality and seeking to gain back what was stolen from it , by the SAME meathods - the use of powerful states willingness to place their own self interests before internaional legality and justice.

If you want a solution based on purely legality then you have to address ALL the illegalites, not just ours. If you want to try and keep what you stole illegaly from us and was allowed to steal by powerful states putting their own self interests before legality , then do not expect us to use the SAME meathods.

Weel put erolz!

However I would like to add to the above to demonstrate even more ignorance of facts by Piratis when he makes uneducated statements like "If you had any complaints then why you didn't take RoC to international courts?"

Although no ECHR courts, the current authority at the time was the Supreme Constitutional Court of Cyprus.

Article 173 of the Constitution provided that separate municipalities be established for Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots. The Greek Cypriots refused to obey this provision, so the Turkish Cypriots took the matter to the Supreme Constitutional Court of Cyprus.

In February 1963 (Cyprus Mail 12.2.63) Archbishop Makarios declared on behalf of the Greek Cypriots that if the Court ruled against them they would ignore it. On 25th April 1963 the Court did rule against them and they did ignore it. The neutral President of the Court (a German citizen) resigned and the rule of law in Cyprus collapsed.

With regards to Piratis' comments about UN resolutions, the question that needs to be asked is: If TC entity was an illegal one, and this was just an internal problem for Cyprus then WHY THE HELL DID WE HAVE UN PEACE KEEPING CONTINGENCIES ON THE ISLAND SINCE 1963? Since when UN takes action on internal affairs or even armed clashes within a country - unless there is a blatant violation of the rights of one ethnic group by another, in the absence of a proper ruling government and its authority.

I suggest he reads page 262 onwards of:
http://books.google.com/books?id=lsyOVH6E-PEC&dq=UN+and
+Cyprus+1964+fightings&pg=PA262&ots=-rClR3xEXa&sig
=kIduXRTFOWSBBcJFyNeNaIgVZIc&prev
=http://www.google.com/search%3Fq%3DUN%2Band%2BCyprus
%2B1964%2Bfightings%26sourceid%3Dnavclient-ff%26ie
%3DUTF-8%26rlz%3D1B2GGGL_enGB231&sa=X&oi=print&ct
=result&cd=1#PPA261,M1

AND HOW ABOUT: UN Secretary-General's Report
S/5950, September, 1964.
""41. The UNFICYP observations have established that during the month of July the Cyprus Government imported large amounts of arms and equipment which came in the main through Limassol docks. In addition, an estimated 5,000 personnel entered the island in the same way presumably from Greece. It is believed that the import of arms and military equipment were in excess of 3,000 tons of freight which left Limassol docks in some 1,000 loads..."

The only resolutions passed at the time were as the results of very clever and devious tactic by Greece and Cyprus GC government during 1964, 1967 and even 1974. They would first attack the TCs and every time Turkey threatened to invade under guarantee rights the Greeks would complain to UN and have a resolution passed to "stop aggression by Turkey"! Meanwhile no one gave a shit about the dying TC civilians. What I always said and say is FUCK THE UN! Who cares whose side they support for what reason - their purpose, insensitivity and (non) functionality against the massacre of Muslims had been proven many times in Worlds History. Not just in Cyprus but in Palestine, Russia, Bosnia wherever - which one of these countries did they achieve or prevented anything all these decades?

[denizaksulu]

does anyone have anything costructive to say in this forum, how we can move on and find a solution for cyprus.

Dont you have anything constructive to say? Cyprus is built on this C !

[zan]

When the same report says directly the following then your interpretations are not needed. You have been doing then what you are doing now, and what you have been doing since the 50s. As if there is any doubt about what your aim is.

It is not an interpretation to know that ingnoring ones own consitutional court rulings is illegal. It is not interpretation to know that ignoring ones own constitution is illegal. It is not interpretation to know that setting up armed bands of ethnic thugs used to kill and intimidate innocent TC is illegal. It is not interpretation to know that Clerides demands to unilateral non negotiable changes to the agreed consitution in favour of GC and to the detrmiment of TC, before he would 'allow' TC to take up their legal government positions, was illegal. They were all clearly illegal - but that does not matter if illegalites benefit GC. Illegality only matters if GC lose, then it is the single and only important thing.

You do not ask the reequired questions, if your goal is objective understanding of what occured and why, as to WHY the TC leadership pursued such a policy and more importantly WHY it was able to gain so much support from it from ordianary TC. You do not ask this question because it involves looking at YOUR communites actions and responsibilites. So you just do not do it. You do not ask what effect on support for seperation amongst ordianary TC the GC communities pursuist of the ethnic divisive and exculding objective of enosis had. You do not ask what role the post 60's GC leaderships refusal to implement that which had previously agreed had. What effect the illegal refusal to abide by consituional court rulings had. What affect appointing a vicious racist thug like Yiorjardis to the interior ministry had. What effect his romaing bands of ethnic killers had. What effect driving TC from their homes at gunpoint and burning the hoes after they left had. The reason you ignore all of these questions is that you have no interest in objective understanding , only in propaganda.

If you had any complaints then why you didn't take RoC to international courts? Why there are no UN resolutions or anything of that sort placing the blame on the GCs as you do? (in the same way that UN declared your pseudo state as legally invalid)

There was no 'international court' that had jusrisdiction and could stop your leaderships illegalites. Your leadership knew this. They knew that the only thing that could ultimatley stop their illegalites was Turkey. If you think the TC community could have challenged and stopped these illegalites at the ECHR at that time it just shows you know nothing of the history of the ECHR.

Apparently Erolz you want to be the Judge, but sorry you are not. You can have any opinion you want, but you can not decide what is legal and what is not based on your own interpretations.

But Clerides in 65 could be Judge and just decide

14.The Government position was that certain
provisions of the constitution which conferred a special status
on the Turkish Cypriot community could no longer be considered as
being in effect;

and

Finally,
Mr.Clerides stated that unless the Turkish Cypriot members
accepted the conditions laid down by him, he found it pointless
to supply to them copies of the pending bills.­

and

However, since the Government
had stated that it no longer recognized Dr. Kuchuk in his capacity as
Vice-President, this latter provision of the constitution was
inapplicable in practice.­

and

He [clerides] made
it plain that, unless agreement was reached on these matters, he
would not permit the Turkish Cypriot members to attend the House.
Mr.Clerides also stated that the constitutional provisions
concerning promulgation of the laws by the President and the
Vice-President were no longer applicable. He subsequently stated
that in his opinion the Turkish Cypriot members had no legal
standing any more in the House.­

It is because the GC leadership showed its DETERMINATION to do as it liked with NO REGARD for legality in its pursuit of illegaly removing the TC communites rights that those TC elements that wanted division as a politcal ideal were able to gain so much support from ordianry TC.

Having acted in the most clearly illegal was the GC leadership was then rewarded for it's illegalites and violence and aggression by the international community with 'recognition'. It was rewarded with such because it was expedient to the world powers at the time to do so, not because such was just or legal. This is clear. So havin gained a massive advantage through the use of illegality and the rewarding of such by the international community placing self interest and expediency pefore justic and international leglaity, you now lecture the TC about ignoring legality and seeking to gain back what was stolen from it , by the SAME meathods - the use of powerful states willingness to place their own self interests before internaional legality and justice.

If you want a solution based on purely legality then you have to address ALL the illegalites, not just ours. If you want to try and keep what you stole illegaly from us and was allowed to steal by powerful states putting their own self interests before legality , then do not expect us to use the SAME meathods.

Weel put erolz!

However I would like to add to the above to demonstrate even more ignorance of facts by Piratis when he makes uneducated statements like "If you had any complaints then why you didn't take RoC to international courts?"

Although no ECHR courts, the current authority at the time was the Supreme Constitutional Court of Cyprus.

Article 173 of the Constitution provided that separate municipalities be established for Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots. The Greek Cypriots refused to obey this provision, so the Turkish Cypriots took the matter to the Supreme Constitutional Court of Cyprus.

In February 1963 (Cyprus Mail 12.2.63) Archbishop Makarios declared on behalf of the Greek Cypriots that if the Court ruled against them they would ignore it. On 25th April 1963 the Court did rule against them and they did ignore it. The neutral President of the Court (a German citizen) resigned and the rule of law in Cyprus collapsed.

With regards to Piratis' comments about UN resolutions, the question that needs to be asked is: If TC entity was an illegal one, and this was just an internal problem for Cyprus then WHY THE HELL DID WE HAVE UN PEACE KEEPING CONTINGENCIES ON THE ISLAND SINCE 1963? Since when UN takes action on internal affairs or even armed clashes within a country - unless there is a blatant violation of the rights of one ethnic group by another, in the absence of a proper ruling government and its authority.

I suggest he reads page 262 onwards of:
http://books.google.com/books?id=lsyOVH6E-PEC&dq=UN+and
+Cyprus+1964+fightings&pg=PA262&ots=-rClR3xEXa&sig
=kIduXRTFOWSBBcJFyNeNaIgVZIc&prev
=http://www.google.com/search%3Fq%3DUN%2Band%2BCyprus
%2B1964%2Bfightings%26sourceid%3Dnavclient-ff%26ie
%3DUTF-8%26rlz%3D1B2GGGL_enGB231&sa=X&oi=print&ct
=result&cd=1#PPA261,M1

AND HOW ABOUT: UN Secretary-General's Report
S/5950, September, 1964.
""41. The UNFICYP observations have established that during the month of July the Cyprus Government imported large amounts of arms and equipment which came in the main through Limassol docks. In addition, an estimated 5,000 personnel entered the island in the same way presumably from Greece. It is believed that the import of arms and military equipment were in excess of 3,000 tons of freight which left Limassol docks in some 1,000 loads..."

The only resolutions passed at the time were as the results of very clever and devious tactic by Greece and Cyprus GC government during 1964, 1967 and even 1974. They would first attack the TCs and every time Turkey threatened to invade under guarantee rights the Greeks would complain to UN and have a resolution passed to "stop aggression by Turkey"! Meanwhile no one gave a shit about the dying TC civilians. What I always said and say is FUCK THE UN! Who cares whose side they support for what reason - their purpose, insensitivity and (non) functionality against the massacre of Muslims had been proven many times in Worlds History. Not just in Cyprus but in Palestine, Russia, Bosnia wherever - which one of these countries did they achieve or prevented anything all these decades?

Bravo to both of you. Bravo........