Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

hallil, the understanding of the referendum was that no community was expected to say yes or no. You said yes because you felt there would have been possitive benefits for your community the GC's said no because they did not feel that. Go right ahead support Talat who has so far proven to be a partitionsist. This makes you statement hypocritical in that really what you supported back in 2004 was not the Anan Plan but a partition plan. So unification and Anana Plan do not go together, it is an oximoron. Congratulations on your yes vote. Once again GC's are to blame. May be if you or your leader Mr Talat (liar) could come up with a trully unifying plan for our country people will actually vote yes throughout the country and you will have unification. The reality is Turkey keeps telling you what to so, feeds you lies to wait till se secures membership and then you will create your own country based on lies and stolen land of my country. This is not going to happen dude. Do you think that Cyprus has the power to stop the aid to trash can, I don't think so the reason you have not gotten aid and direct trade is because the EU does not want to give it. since 77 or whatever it was the plan fo cyprus is based on a federation with two states and untl that is presented the EU and RoC will not accept anything

Stop being such victims of always blaoming the RoC and start acting like you do want unification and it will come and you weill share in the wealth that you claim other cypriot cousins are sharing/

Furthrmore, you blames TP for not meeting with your leader, may be your leader is Ankara and that is what TP is doing dealing with the people who rule the roost. get rid of the Turkish occupation forces and then pershasp we could be talking unification, the harsh answer tot this is that you cannot get rid of the turkish occupation forces.,

What an absolute crock of shit...really.

You are doing all you can to bend every little bit of history mate. How can you stand there and not feel any shame about making it seem as if all the people that voted yes to the Annan Plan knew what was rreally going on and all those that voted OXI did as well. The propaganda behind those statements are just so obvious that I would blush from now until Christmas

The reason that TPap and his puppet state of "RoC" will not talk to TCs is because of the real story of what happened in Cyprus will get out and he has done every thing he can to stop it. That I am afraid is not working anymore because he did not bank on those of us abroad. We are spreading the word my friend and you cannot hide behind those lies any more..The "RoC" is not for us and has not been designed for us. It is a Greek state in which we can only protect our identity with special provisions in the constitution and our own area to live in. History has taught us that and is now teaching the rest of the world. This is not about trust although you are fast losing our trust, but about insurances...It has been recognised that that is what is needed by the UN and the EU and you can get as many resolutions you want but I am positive that right will win.

[Nikitas]

Each of us has his reasons for and against the Annan plan. I was against it because it gave one side everything right away whereas the Greek Cypriots got their "benefits" on an instalment plan with no guarantees that something would not go wrong and negate the whole deal in he first ten years. In the meantime the Cyprus Republic would cease to exist and there would be no going back. It was a hostage situation.

Secondly the territorial arrangements were vague. The plan did not specify it the Turkish Component state would get 29 per cent of the island or of the Republic of Cyprus. In the former case the British bases were on the Greek side and would revert to it should they British leave. In the latter case they were a neutral area to be fought over in the future if the British left.

Third, there was no fair provision for the smaller Cypriot communities (non Greek and non Turkish) and given the political equality of the two major communities this was unfair and racist.

Last and most important, Annan and his co authors bent over backwards for the welfare of settlers and their descendants but the plan contained NOTHING to attract emigrant Cypriots back to Cyprus and make them stakeholders in the future federal republic. I found that personally insulting as a Cypriot of the diaspora.

[the_snake_and_the_crane]

Zan, dont you get tired of writing the same old bullshit?? You've already been proved several times your knowledge on the history of Cyprus (AND the rest of the world) is flawed. Why carry on making an arse out of yourself?

[zan]

Each of us has his reasons for and against the Annan plan. I was against it because it gave one side everything right away whereas the Greek Cypriots got their "benefits" on an instalment plan with no guarantees that something would not go wrong and negate the whole deal in he first ten years. In the meantime the Cyprus Republic would cease to exist and there would be no going back. It was a hostage situation.

Secondly the territorial arrangements were vague. The plan did not specify it the Turkish Component state would get 29 per cent of the island or of the Republic of Cyprus. In the former case the British bases were on the Greek side and would revert to it should they British leave. In the latter case they were a neutral area to be fought over in the future if the British left.

Third, there was no fair provision for the smaller Cypriot communities (non Greek and non Turkish) and given the political equality of the two major communities this was unfair and racist.

Last and most important, Annan and his co authors bent over backwards for the welfare of settlers and their descendants but the plan contained NOTHING to attract emigrant Cypriots back to Cyprus and make them stakeholders in the future federal republic. I found that personally insulting as a Cypriot of the diaspora.

Nikitas, How many pages of the Plan did you read before you voted. Even if you did not vote I think you have made it quite clear which way you would have voted. Then please give me some indication as to how many normal people in the "RoC" would have read more than a couple of pages at most....

TPap should have sat down with Talat and worked this out and stopped his stupid games...He has let his people down and if we take it for granted that he is actually representing both communities, he has let the entire nation down.

[Murataga]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/21/wcyprus121.xml

Cyprus 'may be split permanently'

By David Blair in Nicosia
Last Updated: 3:58am BST 21/08/2007


President Mehmet Ali Talat

Cyprus faces "permanent partition" unless the "poisonous wound" of the conflict between Greek and Turk is resolved soon, the president of the isolated North has told The Daily Telegraph.

Officials representing President Mehmet Ali Talat, the leader of the self-styled "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus", will open talks today designed to prepare for a crucial meeting with his Greek Cypriot counterpart, President Tassos Papadopoulos.

Mr Talat, 55, gave warning that any hope of uniting the island may soon die forever.

Politicians who favour a settlement could lose power in Northern Cyprus and their hardline successors may ensure the island's permanent dismemberment.

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"The division is deepening. There are opinion polls which indicate that the majority of Turkish Cypriots are in favour of the two-state solution: permanent partition," Mr Talat said at his residence near the "green line" dividing the capital, Nicosia.

"This shows that Turkish Cypriots are diverting from their former position."

In 2004, the 250,000 Turkish population of Northern Cyprus overwhelmingly approved a peace plan devised by Kofi Annan, then secretary-general of the UN.

This would have abolished the "green line", reunited the island as a loose federation and allowed the new Republic of Cyprus to join the European Union.

In a parallel referendum, three quarters of the Greek population of southern Cyprus rejected the plan, encouraged by Mr Papadopoulos. As the island's recognised government, southern Cyprus was allowed to enter the EU. Its economy has boomed ever since.

Mr Talat believes that public opinion in the North has hardened and become "totally contradictory" to the referendum result.


The failure to resolve the dispute has "deepened the sentiment of the people to avoid unification of the island," he said.

"This is a big danger. This of course lessens the options for politicians. Politicians cannot go against the people's will."

For decades, Northern Cyprus was dominated by hardline Turkish nationalists, notably Rauf Denktash. But Mr Talat, a moderate Left-winger who won office in 2005, favours unity and power-sharing.

"Today, the total power here in the North is under the control of pro-solution forces. If this changes, I don't know what will happen," said Mr Talat.

Mr Papadopoulos does not recognise Mr Talat as the leader of a neighbouring state. His government has treated Northern Cyprus as "occupied territory" for 33 years.

Northern Cyprus cannot trade directly with the EU and its airport has no flights to anywhere except Turkey.

Lifting this isolation would be the "best remedy for the present situation", said Mr Talat. This would bolster "pro-solution" politicians and provide Mr Papadopoulos with a new incentive to negotiate.

The Conflict

Cyprus has been divided for the last 33 years. The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, recognised only by Turkey, covers 38 per cent of the island and contains about 250,000 people.

The official government of Cyprus rules the rest of the island, where the population of 600,000 is mainly Greek.

The division dates from 1974, when hardline Greek generals launched a military coup with the aim of unifying Cyprus and Greece.

Turkey responded by sending troops to the island - an "invasion" say the Greeks, a "peacekeeping operation" say the Turks.

A "green line", policed by the UN, divides the island and capital, Nicosia.

In 2004, the UN drew up a plan for reunification. Turks in the north voted for it, the Greeks in the south voted against.

Greek Cyprus was allowed to join the EU in 2004. Northern Cyprus was shut out.

This man is such a liar and a partitionist and Turkish speaking Cypriots need to look closer to home when blaming. Blame him not the RoC.

The RoC's econmy boomed soon after 74,

The isolations are enforced due to occupation of the Island's territory

there are not 250, 000 turkish speaking cyriots in the north

Mr Talat you are a liar and traitor to your country. And if they vote you out for more hard liners well we'll deal with them just ike we have dealth with you.

Have you no shame or do you just not know the history? Our isolation began after 1963, at a time when no Turkish soldier was here and the Greek Army was increasing presence by the invitation of Makarios in the thousands. A little dignity for God`s sake.

[Nikitas]

Zan,

I did no vote, but because of my job I was in constant touch with the contents of the plan, so I read more, much more, than the average person. But I did not read the full 9000 pages. I doubt Annan read them all himself!

What was evident from early on here in Greece was the intense interest of the British and American embassies to promote the plan. This ferver went against the plan, as people instinctively suspect anything promoted by those two. But that aside, there was a last ditch attempt at that Swiss town, Burgenstock?, by Christofias to have private contacts with Talat. Somehow they did not come through. The outcome that night, as we saw on live TV was that Mr Erdogan came out looking triumphant, and all others, including the Turkish Cypriot delegation a little cowed, the body language was telling. And later statements prove it.

What Papadopoulos said in his pre referendum speech was his opinion. I do not agree with most of it. But I did see the point that all advantages to the Greek side were spaced over ten to fifteen years with no UN guarantees.

Both sides left out the points I mentioned above and I would have expected true Cypriots to have the diaspora in mind before they figure out the interests of settlers. I have no problem with the north being repopulated with Turkish Cypriots attracted to return with financial incentives paid by the Greek Cypriots. But not one politician who was involved in the drafting of the plan considered such a move. Yet they all took time to deal with the settlers' rights. To me that was a kick in the face, it did not make me a stakeholder in the solution. At some point things become personal, that was the point for me.

[humanist]

Zan

What an absolute crock of shit...really.

You are doing all you can to bend every little bit of history mate. How can you stand there and not feel any shame about making it seem as if all the people that voted yes to the Annan Plan knew what was rreally going on and all those that voted OXI did as well. The propaganda behind those statements are just so obvious that I would blush from now until Christmas

The reason that TPap and his puppet state of "RoC" will not talk to TCs is because of the real story of what happened in Cyprus will get out and he has done every thing he can to stop it. That I am afraid is not working anymore because he did not bank on those of us abroad. We are spreading the word my friend and you cannot hide behind those lies any more..The "RoC" is not for us and has not been designed for us. It is a Greek state in which we can only protect our identity with special provisions in the constitution and our own area to live in. History has taught us that and is now teaching the rest of the world. This is not about trust although you are fast losing our trust, but about insurances...It has been recognised that that is what is needed by the UN and the EU and you can get as many resolutions you want but I am positive that right will win.

You are most welcome to my crock of shit eat and enjoy.

I am not ashamed of anything I have said. There is no propaganda whatso ever I am happy to show my face and stad for all that I have said on this bloomin forum Are You? The agreement was that there was to be no labelling or pressure withthis referendum. The Turkish Cypriots voted Yes because they felt they could benefit with a so re-unification proposed under the AP. The Greek Cypriots voted No because they felt they woould have lost. End of story if you see propaganda in that that is precisely your interpretation.

The RoC is NOT a puppet State, at all it is a recognised country, and it is a member of the EU. Hardly a puppet regime like the one you are supportng.

I stand by my coments above. Who to talk too. Talat or Ankara.

We too in the diaspora are talking about what the trnc is all about, Turkeys attempt to make the so called trnc part of its territory and am illegal occupation of Cyprus. One that a nation of 70 million people and a strong army has forced upon a small Island nation that ended in blood shed and loss of life. So stop calling me friend because we are far from being friends. My friends do not share a separatist view or ideology.

The Roc is a State that you deny each day except when it suits you, oil money, health, education, employment, access to EU. The RoC is there for all Cypriots who choose to live there and support it.

In true Turkish Cypriot style you are now dictating to me that I have to trust you. Well trust is a two way thing and your leaders actions selling off his country not to mention mine are not a way to gain trust. I do not trust Talat as far as I can throw him and that ain't far. He is a traitor selling out not only his country but also his comaptriots country and denies them the freedom not only to their properties but to thewir country. Each and everyday you and your vile leader violate my human rights.

We obviously have different beliefs in what is right. You poor sod of an individual you fail to see that unity is not abut winning or loosing is about coming together. Something that you have no idea about. So stop accusing me of propaganda you unethical, hateful individual.

[humanist]

Murataga

Have you no shame or do you just not know the history

Shame for what?

If you are suggesting shame in relation to ecominc embargo NO I do not have any shame just as YOU have no shme about denying me my right to my property, free movement within my country and exploitation of my home each and every day for the past 33 years. Is that simple for you to understand.

[Murataga]

Murataga

Have you no shame or do you just not know the history

Shame for what?

If you are suggesting shame in relation to ecominc embargo NO I do not have any shame just as YOU have no shme about denying me my right to my property, free movement within my country and exploitation of my home each and every day for the past 33 years. Is that simple for you to understand.

Nice of you to come out of the closet and confess you have no shame; but you apparently chose not to quote the rest of the facts in my post, one wonders why?... Read it and try again:

Our isolation began after 1963, at a time when no Turkish soldier was here and the Greek Army was increasing presence by the invitation of Makarios in the thousands. A little dignity for God`s sake.

Our enclavement and our struggle to get out of it... we are ambargoed through out.

[humanist]

Murataga, I never stated that I did not support the economic embargos, we have had this discussion before, I am learning from some of the turkish speaking Cypriots on the forum what to quote.

Unlike you though I want a lasting viable solution one that unites people not separates them, and therefore I am not willing to engage in past history that keeps getting churned upin this forum. You wanna talk about what a dead priest did 35 years ago go for it. I am not going to stop yu nor entertain you.