Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Get Real, I wouldn't like to burst your bubble but I am quite sure that Kifeas has no political vision. For example, he dismissed lightly the effort of Makarios to alter the Constitution and he said that the Turksih Cypriots had only to reject these "suggestions" and we would be as we were. Well, this points to a childish approach to real events that shaped our future and this "I play" "I stop playing" thing is something you encounter only in kindergardens.

I’m afraid I will disappoint you by agreeing with Kifeas, that Makarios simply made a list of 13 PROPOSITIONS and nothing else.

Unfortunately, back then the TC leaders (encouraged by Turkey) didn’t know the MEANING of the word “negotiate” and were quick to reach for their guns! The “13 points” were the perfect excuse for Turkey to install FEAR in the TC community who then advised them to ABANDON the new government… which step by step led to everything else!

There is little doubt in my mind that Turkey caused SERIOUS damage to Cyprus by leading the TC community astray and thus kick-starting all subsequent calamities in Cyprus.

You on the other hand prefer to blame everything on Makarios for ”MAKING” the 13-point suggestion!! What a lousy judge you’d make in a court of law!!! As if leaders are NOT allowed to suggest modifications to a constitution…. since when Bananiot?

[MR-from-NG]

Bananiot mate, after the understanding you've shown I don't think you would recieve any bad replies from any of the TCs regarding our mistakes.

The TCs made msitakes???

I know we made many mistakes, but (in my opinion) I think our biggest mistakes were after the war and even now we are making many mistakes on our side...

T-C imo your biggest mistake was that you BROUGHT TURKEY HERE.
And that was not simply because the GCs wanted Enosis, it was pre-planed.

This mistake will finally eradicate you from Cyprus, and donate the northern part to Turkey and its settlers.

T-C imo your biggest mistake was that you BROUGHT TURKEY HERE.

Really? No Turkey in 74 no TCs left in Cyprus. The end result? ENOSIS and the end of TCs.

So Pyrp, you want us all to believe it was a mistake for Turkey to intervene in 74. Please pull the other one, its got bells on it.

[Get Real!]

Anyway, I've just been invited to go eat Souvlakia at a friend's place nearby (lucky me!) so I'll join you guys again later tonight so have a good evening...

[Kifeas]

So, Pyrpolyser, you think that I talk a lot about Papadopoulos. Just wait until Christofias opens his mouth! You also think that by bashing Denktash and his followers all day you serve your country. You could not be more wrong. We made the same mistake in 1963 and look where it got us. I remember the "patriots" back in the early 80's who decided that a meeting with Denktash was an act of treason and anyone who suggested this constituted a national threat. Soon, however, they were forced to eat their words, just like Papadopoulos, who made mockery of anyone calling for a meeting with Talat, only to send a letter and ask for one as soon as Christofias became a candidate for the top job.

Get Real, I wouldn't like to burst your bubble but I am quite sure that Kifeas has no political vision. For example, he dismissed lightly the effort of Makarios to alter the Constitution and he said that the Turksih Cypriots had only to reject these "suggestions" and we would be as we were. Well, this points to a childish approach to real events that shaped our future and this "I play" "I stop playing" thing is something you encounter only in kindergardens.

So, let me ask a question and anyone can attempt to answer it. If we can agree that we can learn from our mistakes, what are these mistakes we made? It is only appropriate that Greek Cypriots list mistakes made by their own side and Turkish Cypriots mistakes made by them.

Childish is your assumption that the TC leadership, with its rigid, impatient and extreme attitude, did nothing to force Makarios’ hand in preparing and forwarding the proposal of those 13 amendments on an already unfair and highly indigestible for the GC community constitution!

Childish is also your assertion that Makarios had forced; or had even the power alone and without any from of consent on the part of the TC and /or the Turkish side, to force those or most of those 13 amendments on the constitution!

Childish is also your claim that I do not have a vision, when I (the “hardliner”) have managed to compile and put up very elaborate proposals and ideas on key trivial issues of a potential future solution, that had drawn the attention and even approval of most TCs in this and other forums; and you have a vision when all you do in the forums is to anathematize and vilify Papadopoulos and the GC community for rejecting the Annan “plan!”

[MR-from-NG]

Childish is also your claim that I do not have a vision, when I (the “hardliner”) have managed to compile and put up very elaborate proposals and ideas on key trivial issues of a potential future solution, that had drawn the attention and even approval of most TCs in this and other forums; and you have a vision when all you do in the forums is to anathematize and vilify Papadopoulos and the GC community for rejecting the Annan “plan!”

Kifeas, your IQ is failing you miserably. These issues you mention, are they key or trivial. My IQ cant work this one out maybe you can explain.

Thank you

Btw, Bananiot is far too intelligent and knowledgeable for your IQ to deal with. As for his opinion on the Cyprob, he has the balls to tell it as it is. He is not brainwashed nor is he living in denial.

Well done Bananiot, you give us Tcs hope for the future.

[Pyrpolizer]

Bananiot mate, after the understanding you've shown I don't think you would recieve any bad replies from any of the TCs regarding our mistakes.

The TCs made msitakes???

I know we made many mistakes, but (in my opinion) I think our biggest mistakes were after the war and even now we are making many mistakes on our side...

T-C imo your biggest mistake was that you BROUGHT TURKEY HERE.
And that was not simply because the GCs wanted Enosis, it was pre-planed.

This mistake will finally eradicate you from Cyprus, and donate the northern part to Turkey and its settlers.

T-C imo your biggest mistake was that you BROUGHT TURKEY HERE.

Really? No Turkey in 74 no TCs left in Cyprus. The end result? ENOSIS and the end of TCs.

So Pyrp, you want us all to believe it was a mistake for Turkey to intervene in 74. Please pull the other one, its got bells on it.

Mr-From-Ng,

When I said the TCs BROUGHT Turkey here I didn't mean they brought her in 1974. The TCs brought Turkey here from as early as 1962 when her Generals were in every unmixed TC village and in every area in towns where TCs were concentrated. You are old enough to remember the TCs were living with the dream of seeing the Turkish ships coming one day. What happened in 1974 was the finalising of that BRINGING IN.

I think I said my opinion about what happened in 1974 many times in this forum. Everything imo was AGREED between the Greek Junta, the CIA, and Turkey to achieve DOUBLE ENOSIS/double annexation i.e one part to unite with Turkey and the other with Greece.

Unfortunately it seems most GCs and TCs think the coup happened just to kick Makarios out and then declare Enosis. There is a widely spread fairy tale both among the Greeks, the GCs and TCs and the Turks that the coup happened just for that.... IT DID NOT! **

Anyway the biggest mistake Makarios made (and I hope this answers Bananiot's question as well) was the formation of the National Guard. This consisted of GC drafted soldiers, whereas all the OFFICERS were mainland Greeks.This way he brought GREECE here. Imo the GC paramilitary groups had no chance, without having their veins connected to the NG.

** Politicians spell this truth out from time to time. Omirou said it, Mitsotakis said it too in his interview to RIK last month.

@Kifeas: Does Stella Soulioti say anything about it in her books?

[Pyrpolizer]

So, Pyrpolyser, you think that I talk a lot about Papadopoulos. Just wait until Christofias opens his mouth!

Bananiot I can point you 10s of your posts (each with minimum 200 words) devoted specifically to Papadopoulos. Mostly rumors and factually unsupported opinions. I will be all ears to hear what Christofias will say. I only hope what he'll say, will help ease my pain, for having to vote a communist for the first time in my life

Previously you said you wrote numerous posts against TMT. Just show me one post of yours referring to TMT in detail. All you wrote is a few one liners (27 in total) accusing the GCs for the actions of TMT.

[Pyrpolizer]

Now coming back to Talat:

There were rumours when he took over, that in 1974 he was torturing GC captives.
Have you heard anything?

[Bananiot]

Are you now insinuating that I support the TMT pyrpolyser? What I have claimed, and this is my firm belief, is that TMT would be treading on thin water had we not provided the excuse. Had Sampson and Yiorgadgis, along with Lissarides, not been murdering kids and women in Omorfita, but extended a warm hand to the ordinary Turkish Cypriots, TMT would have found it extremely difficult to recruit members. Samson, a known murderer, was given a heroes status and went visiting villages and communities where young women showered him with flowers. Makarios, I am sorry to say, at best kept silent and allowed the paramilitary to dictate its terms.

It is extremely childish indeed to think that a proposition to change the Constitution is a light hearted affair. It is easy to blame the Turks as if they encouraged makarios to go ahead in order to use it as an excuse but, despite being very young at the time, I remember clearly the time when Makarios went on a state visit to Turkey and Inonu, this serene gentleman, urged Makarios "your beautitude, please do not go ahead". It makes no sense trying to deny this and keep the Greek Cypriots in the dark, constantly believing that they are always the victims, when the whole world knows about it. Of course, Kifeas has categoricaly said that "who cares about the international community" but this is only another example of how apolitical this person is.

Of course I have heard of the rumours pyrpolyser but please also tell us who was spreading the rumours. Then we can make some safe deductions.

[Get Real!]

Had Sampson and Yiorgadgis, along with Lissarides, not been murdering kids and women in Omorfita, but extended a warm hand to the ordinary Turkish Cypriots, TMT would have found it extremely difficult to recruit members.

All one can do here is laugh because your mixed up assumptions are not worth a reply.

Samson, a known murderer, was given a heroes status and went visiting villages and communities where young women showered him with flowers. Makarios, I am sorry to say, at best kept silent and allowed the paramilitary to dictate its terms.

Denktash too, a known murderer was given a heroes' welcome here and there while Kutchuk looked on but that doesn't seem to bother you one bit.

It is extremely childish indeed to think that a proposition to change the Constitution is a light hearted affair.

And I find it extremely naive for anyone to assume that the RoC was a rigid totalitarianist constitution that could never be modified! Could that possibly ever work?

It is easy to blame the Turks as if they encouraged makarios to go ahead in order to use it as an excuse but, despite being very young at the time, I remember clearly the time when Makarios went on a state visit to Turkey and Inonu, this serene gentleman, urged Makarios "your beautitude, please do not go ahead". It makes no sense trying to deny this and keep the Greek Cypriots in the dark, constantly believing that they are always the victims, when the whole world knows about it. Of course, Kifeas has categoricaly said that "who cares about the international community" but this is only another example of how apolitical this person is.

If there is a technical point in the paragraph above I definitely missed it...

Bananiot, have you EVER found ANY non-Turkish/TC person who actually agrees with your views?