Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

I am extremely proud to be able to gain the appreciation and trust of my fellow countrymen. This is the only way to go forward, is't it? Do you think you can discredit me by pointing out that Turkish Cypriots feel comfortable with me? You are just as bad as the Archbishop and the rest of the bigots who think that the word "Turk" is a dirty word.

Turkey, by the way, would have never ventured to come to Cyprus if it were not for our myopic policies in the 50's, 60's and early 70's. We also made Denktash as well as TMT. We laid a bed of roses for them and here is you arguing that we brought Greece and you cannot see that this is part of the reason Turkey is here today!

a)Your countrymen are not only the TCs. It would be very nice if you could gain the appreciation of the TCs and at the same time gain the same appreciation of the GCs.
The remaining of your blah- blah rhetoric with the word "Turk", is called faque defense. Something similar to your old tactic of creating and fighting against fabricated ghosts

b)Turkey would invade Cyprus one way or ANOTHER.May I remind you that until 1962 the GCs were practically armless whereas the TCs were continuously smaggling weapons in, and continuously preparing their enclaves. The Armenians were kicked out of North Nicosia much earlier than 1963. The TCs were working for it, and imo it had nothing to do with Enosis other than using it as an excuse.It has everything to do with the fact that the TCs used to be the ruling class so they either wanted to equate the 18% minority to the 82% majority in all respects in the new state, or have their own separate state.

[MR-from-NG]

MR-FROM-NG,

you already have the likes of Bananiot. Vote Fanos for president next time

Pyrp,

Fanos is an individual I read about on the forum and so far I've read nothing good about him.

Bananiot is someone I've met on my last visit to Cyprus. He is an honest and an honorable gentleman if ever there was one. I would not hesitate for a millisecond to share this beautiful island with him.

He has a vote of confidence from me and the rest of the TCs on the forum.

Btw Pyrp, I would also give you my vote of confidence, you know I've always liked and respected you.

[repulsewarrior]

Basically we are suffering because of our bonds to our being "Turkish" or "Greek" upholding traditions which are in reality unsuited for our collective position, desired by many interlocutors, a people who wish an end to their subjugation, free, having self representation and a State, they can call Cyprus, to defend their Individual Rights.

But, the pride we have as Hellens or Anatolian, this state of being, is masked, by the Government of the day, to become a possesion of which they are the stewards. Our small population is easily moved in this manner. The leaders of either community are no different in their abilities in an adversarial regime.

Our wake up call will be in the future, which will have a demographic completely different to what we have now. And unless we have a State Sovereign over this whole island we will have little chance to sustain a distinctiveness which can be called Cypriot, be it turcophone or grecophone.

Yet beyond the unbiased State, and its Government, we need two National Assemblies to be Bicommunal, with territories over which one culture, or the other, rule as a majority, will serve us as Cypriots, through democratic means (one man one vote), self representation, in our Internal Affairs, and a reciprocal respect for the minorities in our midst.

[Eliko]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/21/wcyprus121.xml

Cyprus 'may be split permanently'

By David Blair in Nicosia
Last Updated: 3:58am BST 21/08/2007


President Mehmet Ali Talat

Cyprus faces "permanent partition" unless the "poisonous wound" of the conflict between Greek and Turk is resolved soon, the president of the isolated North has told The Daily Telegraph.

Officials representing President Mehmet Ali Talat, the leader of the self-styled "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus", will open talks today designed to prepare for a crucial meeting with his Greek Cypriot counterpart, President Tassos Papadopoulos.

Mr Talat, 55, gave warning that any hope of uniting the island may soon die forever.

Politicians who favour a settlement could lose power in Northern Cyprus and their hardline successors may ensure the island's permanent dismemberment.

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"The division is deepening. There are opinion polls which indicate that the majority of Turkish Cypriots are in favour of the two-state solution: permanent partition," Mr Talat said at his residence near the "green line" dividing the capital, Nicosia.

"This shows that Turkish Cypriots are diverting from their former position."

In 2004, the 250,000 Turkish population of Northern Cyprus overwhelmingly approved a peace plan devised by Kofi Annan, then secretary-general of the UN.

This would have abolished the "green line", reunited the island as a loose federation and allowed the new Republic of Cyprus to join the European Union.

In a parallel referendum, three quarters of the Greek population of southern Cyprus rejected the plan, encouraged by Mr Papadopoulos. As the island's recognised government, southern Cyprus was allowed to enter the EU. Its economy has boomed ever since.

Mr Talat believes that public opinion in the North has hardened and become "totally contradictory" to the referendum result.


The failure to resolve the dispute has "deepened the sentiment of the people to avoid unification of the island," he said.

"This is a big danger. This of course lessens the options for politicians. Politicians cannot go against the people's will."

For decades, Northern Cyprus was dominated by hardline Turkish nationalists, notably Rauf Denktash. But Mr Talat, a moderate Left-winger who won office in 2005, favours unity and power-sharing.

"Today, the total power here in the North is under the control of pro-solution forces. If this changes, I don't know what will happen," said Mr Talat.

Mr Papadopoulos does not recognise Mr Talat as the leader of a neighbouring state. His government has treated Northern Cyprus as "occupied territory" for 33 years.

Northern Cyprus cannot trade directly with the EU and its airport has no flights to anywhere except Turkey.

Lifting this isolation would be the "best remedy for the present situation", said Mr Talat. This would bolster "pro-solution" politicians and provide Mr Papadopoulos with a new incentive to negotiate.

The Conflict

Cyprus has been divided for the last 33 years. The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, recognised only by Turkey, covers 38 per cent of the island and contains about 250,000 people.

The official government of Cyprus rules the rest of the island, where the population of 600,000 is mainly Greek.

The division dates from 1974, when hardline Greek generals launched a military coup with the aim of unifying Cyprus and Greece.

Turkey responded by sending troops to the island - an "invasion" say the Greeks, a "peacekeeping operation" say the Turks.

A "green line", policed by the UN, divides the island and capital, Nicosia.

In 2004, the UN drew up a plan for reunification. Turks in the north voted for it, the Greeks in the south voted against.

Greek Cyprus was allowed to join the EU in 2004. Northern Cyprus was shut out.

This man is such a liar and a partitionist and Turkish speaking Cypriots need to look closer to home when blaming. Blame him not the RoC.

The RoC's econmy boomed soon after 74,

The isolations are enforced due to occupation of the Island's territory

there are not 250, 000 turkish speaking cyriots in the north

Mr Talat you are a liar and traitor to your country. And if they vote you out for more hard liners well we'll deal with them just ike we have dealth with you.

The fact that Mr Talat is a politician is enough evidence to qualify him for the title of 'Liar', can you name any one of them who is NOT?.

[Pyrpolizer]

MR-FROM-NG,

you already have the likes of Bananiot. Vote Fanos for president next time

Pyrp,

Fanos is an individual I read about on the forum and so far I've read nothing good about him.

Bananiot is someone I've met on my last visit to Cyprus. He is an honest and an honorable gentleman if ever there was one. I would not hesitate for a millisecond to share this beautiful island with him.

He has a vote of confidence from me and the rest of the TCs on the forum.

Btw Pyrp, I would also give you my vote of confidence, you know I've always liked and respected you.

The respect is mutual my friend you are a man of honour by my standards.

[Kifeas]

No Pyrpolyser, whatever anyone says. The fact of the matter is WE brought Turkey here. Is this so difficult to understand?

Corrupted and demoralised Bananiot, if it is such an undisputable fact that “WE” brought Turkey here, why on earth did the ECHR find Turkey guilty of the occupation and its consequences in Cyprus in all the 4 cases of Cyprus vs. Turkey, and the Loizidou vs. Turkey one; and why on earth did the CoE and the UN GA in no uncertain terms condemned Turkey in their resolutions?

Why didn't they all tell us to "fuck off," for "we" have brought it upon ourselves?

How much do they pay you to say the crab you do in the forums, as you have surpassed Murataga, Ata Atun and their likes, in the pro-Turkish chauvinist propaganda?

Why didn't you go to the ECHR, as a defence witness, to testify in favour of Turkey when it was judged, and tell them that Turkey is “innocent” and we the “guilty,” for "we" have brought them here? Why, since you know all the "truth?" Why did you allow Turkey to be "wrongfully" found guilty, instead?

Your corruption has not limits and no bottom to stop!

[Bananiot]

"Only the truth serves national interests" this is my motto and I will adhere to this despite the indignant rantings of the pavement patriots for whom I have no respect at all.

Pyrpolyser has made a statement and one should look seriously at it. He claims that Turkey would have invaded, anyway. Probably, Kifeas will tell him off once again, but in my book, this argument cannot be supported with hard facts and basically it only serves the purpose of absolving the Greek Cypriot side of the responsibilities it has in this affair. Thus, I am going to stick to my motto (which of course I borrowed from Dionysios Solomos) and, no matter how much it hurts, I will lay down some painful truths.

On December 3 1963, just before the intercommunal strife started, a bomb went off by the statue of EOKA hero Markos Drakos in Nicosia. This was blamed on the Turkish Cypriots but, as Makarios Droushiotis points out in his books, it was proved beyond doubt, that the bomb was planted by the "organisation", a paramilitary organisation that was formed by Makarios and had Yiorgadgis as its leader and Papadopoulos was its vice leader. An officer of the Cyprus army, named Chrysaphis, confirmed this and claimed that he heard Yiorgadgis give the order for the planting of the bomb.

Now we also know that the fire that burned Ayios Kassianos school was started by a Greek cypriot who was a pupil at the school and has confessed since. At the time it was claimed that the Turkish Cypriots started the fire and the police said they found turkish cigarette butts in the area, in an obvious effort to implicate the Turkish cypriots.

In March 1962, the "organisation" blasted the mosques of Bayraktar and Omerie and of course, these were just the excuses we needed to start the attack on the Turkish Cypriots in December 1963. It was an indescriminate attack that did not focus on extremists elements of TMT but women and children. It aimed at breaking the spirit of the Turkish Cypriot community.

Only by staring history in the eyes can we understand the mistakes and the policies (of both sides) that have brought us to the brink of partition. I can only speak about the mistakes and policies of my side and make an effort to comprehend what leads us to the nationalist blindness (it is always the fault of the others) and most important to the political cowardiness (hush, your damaging our cause).

Of course, for a number of people the Cyprob serves only as a means to promote their "non-negotiable" nationalism which proved to be much weeker that the Turkish nationalism.

It is not hard to conclude, therefore, that we are much to blame for our predicament. In effect, we were begging for Turkey to intervene and if Turkey did not intervene earlier, we should thank our lucky star, or better the dreaded Americans who saved our skin in August 1964 and again in 1967.

P.S. Humanist, I cannot disagree with you. An EU force would ideally oversee any transition period after the solution, without the presence of Turkish or Greek forces. This has to be agreed by both sides, just like everything else.

[MR-from-NG]

No Pyrpolyser, whatever anyone says. The fact of the matter is WE brought Turkey here. Is this so difficult to understand?

Corrupted and demoralised Bananiot, if it is such an undisputable fact that “WE” brought Turkey here, why on earth did the ECHR find Turkey guilty of the occupation and its consequences in Cyprus in all the 4 cases of Cyprus vs. Turkey, and the Loizidou vs. Turkey one; and why on earth did the CoE and the UN GA in no uncertain terms condemned Turkey in their resolutions?

Why didn't they all tell us to "fuck off," for "we" have brought it upon ourselves?

How much do they pay you to say the crab you do in the forums, as you have surpassed Murataga, Ata Atun and their likes, in the pro-Turkish chauvinist propaganda?

Why didn't you go to the ECHR, as a defence witness, to testify in favour of Turkey when it was judged, and tell them that Turkey is “innocent” and we the “guilty,” for "we" have brought them here? Why, since you know all the "truth?" Why did you allow Turkey to be "wrongfully" found guilty, instead?

Your corruption has not limits and no bottom to stop!

It is obvious there is no reasoning with you Kifeas. All you do is throw insults at those who do not agree with your views. I wonder what kind of upbringing you had, I also wonder if you have the slightest clue as to how democracy works.

You are a disgrace to mankind.

[Nikitas]

Banana,

There were acts of "agent provocateurs" in both sides of the conflict, and this we know from public statements of people like Denktash re the bomb at the Turkish information office etc. The most effective such self-put bomb was the one in Attaturk's place of birth in Thessaloniki in 1955 that led to the riots and expulsion of Greeks from Istanbul.

The meddling by "motherlands" is constant, real and proven and came both from Greece and Turkey. There is no question of balance here, who did worse or better. The present situation is what counts and now Greece is on a path that is totally the opposite of the Turkish one, at least the evidence points that way- Greece is glad to be rid of the Cyprus problem, Turkey is in there with occupation troops. And our problem as Cypriots is what to do about the mess we are in NOW.

As for the past actions of our plitical leaders, word has it that Mehmet Ali Talat was an anti Greek operative during the days of the invasion. SO what! Now he is the elected leader of the Turkish Cypriot community and we must deal and negotiate with him, and others who might have had a similar past on either side of the ethnic divide. The line is drawn against people who were involved in crimes and we know how to distinguish those guys.

[Bananiot]

So Nikitas (I will not stoop so low and distort your name, although I have been tempted, I confess) you are saying that the provocateurs are to blame and that we should close our eyes to recent historical facts and simply pretend they did not happen. I always thought that history teaches and makes people more wise in their endeavour to avoid making the same mistakes. However, you have made a valid point. The nationalists of both sides used practicly the same practices to incite intercommunal hate. Absolutely!

By accusing and counteraccusing each other are we not behaving in a similar way now? Will we blame the agent provocateurs once again after the next defeat?