Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

Kikapu

That all very well to compensate all TC's who's land have been used in the South for public projects by the RoC, but what if the TC's who owned these lands in the South have already been compensated with GC land in the North. So you see, I don't think the RoC is going to be giving any money to any TC, unless there is a settlement, after the GC's get their lands back in the North. Unfortunately, it is not illegal to expropriate land by any government for public works in any country, and will even do it by force, if necessary, and they will only pay what is the market rate at that time. So if TC land was used for Larnaca airport 20 years ago, any money set aside for the owners of the land, will be at the rate it was 20 years ago, and not at any settlement date in the future. Yes, the owners will lose out on today's market price, had their land remained intact. But I can't see the RoC paying any TC for their land in the South, if these same people have gotten land in the North in "land exchange". That would be called "double dipping", if a solution was not found, which a TC would get cash for the land in the South, while holding onto GC land in the North.

Kikapu whilst I agree with you post I also like to say that I hope the RoC takes a more positive approach and in case of settlement that TC's where the aiport sits and other public works are given more consideration than 74 market value compensation. We know that in 74 that area was a swamp and worth jack shit really. There needs to be a fairer compensation system. Similarly with GC property in the occupied areas.

[denizaksulu]

Kikapu

That all very well to compensate all TC's who's land have been used in the South for public projects by the RoC, but what if the TC's who owned these lands in the South have already been compensated with GC land in the North. So you see, I don't think the RoC is going to be giving any money to any TC, unless there is a settlement, after the GC's get their lands back in the North. Unfortunately, it is not illegal to expropriate land by any government for public works in any country, and will even do it by force, if necessary, and they will only pay what is the market rate at that time. So if TC land was used for Larnaca airport 20 years ago, any money set aside for the owners of the land, will be at the rate it was 20 years ago, and not at any settlement date in the future. Yes, the owners will lose out on today's market price, had their land remained intact. But I can't see the RoC paying any TC for their land in the South, if these same people have gotten land in the North in "land exchange". That would be called "double dipping", if a solution was not found, which a TC would get cash for the land in the South, while holding onto GC land in the North.

Kikapu whilst I agree with you post I also like to say that I hope the RoC takes a more positive approach and in case of settlement that TC's where the aiport sits and other public works are given more consideration than 74 market value compensation. We know that in 74 that area was a swamp and worth jack shit really. There needs to be a fairer compensation system. Similarly with GC property in the occupied areas.

Perhaps its the 'Double Dipping ' scandals that are preventing the TC leadership agreeing to unification. 'Allegedly' they have been complicit in this and they fear exposure or accountability.

[humanist]

Deniz

Perhaps its the 'Double Dipping ' scandals that are preventing the TC leadership agreeing to unification. 'Allegedly' they have been complicit in this and they fear exposure or accountability.

Deniz make have no doubt that double dippers exist in both communities and they are protecting their interets my friends whilst the average Levent and Maria are paying the price.

[denizaksulu]

Deniz

Perhaps its the 'Double Dipping ' scandals that are preventing the TC leadership agreeing to unification. 'Allegedly' they have been complicit in this and they fear exposure or accountability.

Deniz make have no doubt that double dippers exist in both communities and they are protecting their interets my friends whilst the average Levent and Maria are paying the price.

Tell me about it.

[Kikapu]

Does life stop? no we move on using those means available to us, we cannot be held hostage by GC policies to force us into a corner and surrender to their will of dominating us.

No, life does not need to stop for the TC's, and some GC land will need to be used for Public Projects, as TC land is used in the South also. But what you are talking about is something totally different. You want the TC's to claim GC land as their own personal land and do what ever they want with it, because they are now been given new deeds from the original ones under the name of "Turkish Land Deeds" based on this so called "land exchange", which in actual fact, it has only been one sided "exchange", or "TOOK" is actually a better word. So this is where the "corrupt society" starts to take form, specially when it starts at the very top and works it's way down to the common man.

When the President of the "TRNC" for decades, Rauf Denktash takes (gifts) 30,000 Donums of land for himself, which belongs to others, and I have no doubt many in his Government then and now are no better, is no wonder that average man on the street has no problem accepting such practices. When the "soul is corrupted", then there are no limit as to where it will lead to, but most definitely, way beyond just Money and Power. It will be the destruction of ones Moral Values, and without that, one can not build a sound society, or at least, it will take a several Decades to correct it, gradually, if ever.

So basically VP accepts the premise of "double dipping" and formation of "corrupt society" in the "TRNC", but he excuses them with reasons and justifications. As my old girlfriend use to say, "excuses are like assholes, in that everybody has one". It is like a hooker trying to make a deal with a "John". She says to him, "who do you think I am, a cheap whore", in which he says, "we already know what you are, it is the price that seems to be in question".

[stuballstu]

Humanist TC's agreed to the last effort by the UN for a political settlement in Cyprus. Now we know that the TC who owns the land that Larnaca airport is built on is never getting his land back, he will get financial compensation instead. But why does he have to wait until a political solution to recieve compensation, why can't the government offer it to all the TC landowners who have had property used for public works. .

Stuballstu,

That all very well to compensate all TC's who's land have been used in the South for public projects by the RoC, but what if the TC's who owned these lands in the South have already been compensated with GC land in the North. So you see, I don't think the RoC is going to be giving any money to any TC, unless there is a settlement, after the GC's get their lands back in the North. Unfortunately, it is not illegal to expropriate land by any government for public works in any country, and will even do it by force, if necessary, and they will only pay what is the market rate at that time. So if TC land was used for Larnaca airport 20 years ago, any money set aside for the owners of the land, will be at the rate it was 20 years ago, and not at any settlement date in the future. Yes, the owners will lose out on today's market price, had their land remained intact. But I can't see the RoC paying any TC for their land in the South, if these same people have gotten land in the North in "land exchange". That would be called "double dipping", if a solution was not found, which a TC would get cash for the land in the South, while holding onto GC land in the North.

Kikapu

I appreciate what you are saying and this is why the Cyprus problem is getting more complex the longer it goes on. The TC who owned the land which Larnaca airport was built on will not recieve compensation until a settlement but at the same time is forbidden by the laws of the ROC to sell the land he has received in exchange in the North.

I do have some sympathies for the ROC government for returning TC refugees who claim their proper back. The system is with its flaws much like the TC property commission. Unfortunately there is never going to be a simple answer for all refugees and no matter what is decided as part of a political settlement not everyone will be happy with the outcome.

[Kikapu]

Humanist TC's agreed to the last effort by the UN for a political settlement in Cyprus. Now we know that the TC who owns the land that Larnaca airport is built on is never getting his land back, he will get financial compensation instead. But why does he have to wait until a political solution to recieve compensation, why can't the government offer it to all the TC landowners who have had property used for public works. .

Stuballstu,

That all very well to compensate all TC's who's land have been used in the South for public projects by the RoC, but what if the TC's who owned these lands in the South have already been compensated with GC land in the North. So you see, I don't think the RoC is going to be giving any money to any TC, unless there is a settlement, after the GC's get their lands back in the North. Unfortunately, it is not illegal to expropriate land by any government for public works in any country, and will even do it by force, if necessary, and they will only pay what is the market rate at that time. So if TC land was used for Larnaca airport 20 years ago, any money set aside for the owners of the land, will be at the rate it was 20 years ago, and not at any settlement date in the future. Yes, the owners will lose out on today's market price, had their land remained intact. But I can't see the RoC paying any TC for their land in the South, if these same people have gotten land in the North in "land exchange". That would be called "double dipping", if a solution was not found, which a TC would get cash for the land in the South, while holding onto GC land in the North.

Kikapu

I appreciate what you are saying and this is why the Cyprus problem is getting more complex the longer it goes on. The TC who owned the land which Larnaca airport was built on will not recieve compensation until a settlement but at the same time is forbidden by the laws of the ROC to sell the land he has received in exchange in the North.

I do have some sympathies for the ROC government for returning TC refugees who claim their proper back. The system is with its flaws much like the TC property commission. Unfortunately there is never going to be a simple answer for all refugees and no matter what is decided as part of a political settlement not everyone will be happy with the outcome.

Stuballstu,

The TC's, who's land has been used by the RoC for Public Projects, such as airports and highways will be paid in due time, I'm sure. Unfortunately, by the time that happens with the coming of a settlement, it may not be very much money for them. But on the other hand, those TC's who still own land in the South that are now near the newly built highways, roads, schools, hospitals, water projects and so on, are worth much more now, than if these projects never took place in the first place. So, as you can see, there are going to be winners and losers.

The reason as to why it is illegal to sell any GC land that was given to TC's in the North, was not a legal transaction to begin with, with the laws of the RoC. The TC's are still considered to be citizens of the RoC afterall, and 70,000+ TC's have taken out a RoC, EU passports. People can play ignorant all they want, by just simply saying "the TRNC said it was legal and here are our new Turkish Land Deeds". This will never fly and all those who sold GC land given to them, potentially are at risk of being charged in illegal land buying and selling. All the settlers who may have done this, will just move back to Turkey along with any TC's, to avoid any prosecution if a settlement was to be reached. But those who have bought and sold GC land and are now trying to cash in on their TC land in the South by doing the "double dipping", will first need to live in the South for a period of 6 months and also try to explain their way out of what they did with the GC land, that they may have received in this "exchange". There are other ways of getting around this problems, but I'm not going to spell them out on this forum. It will only encourage Partition and not a settlement.

By selling GC land to foreigners, which is applauded by some Partitionist on this Forum, since they believe, any settlement will also have to include the foreigners. I think the Partitionist will want to derail any settlement by having the foreigner element in the mix. For me it is very easy to decide on the foreign element mix. They lose what they bought if in fact it was a GC property who's owner the property and had not been compensated. I would much rather make things "right" between the TC's and the GC's, than worry about bunch of opportunist to cash-in on the misery of others.

[kurupetos]

Kurupetos

Most TC where living in enclaves prior to 1974 and therefore find it unfeasible that they would take all their windows and doors with them, Secondly most TC's took refuge in the SBA areas when Turkish forces landed in 1974.

Many TC's still view themselves as first and foremost Cypriots, also wages are higher in the south than in the north. Only a fistful of GC's live in the north mainly due to GC attitudes to the "illegal" regime.

stuballstu,

I am sorry to say that you are completely wrong. Are you saying that GCs were not forced out of their homes but left on their own? Also TCs did take all of their belongings with them. Go and ask TCs living in the occupied areas to verify this. I have seen pictures and have witnesses to verify that also. TCs were also given GC houses and land (in most cases much more than what they possessed in the RoC). On the contrary, GCs were stacked in refugee camps like animals. What exactly do you mean that TCs view themselves as first and foremost Cypriots? Finally the "TRNC" is ILLEGAL. The 1960 Constitution which is the only legal constitution ever existed since independence prohibites the partition or annexation of the island. I understand that you are British. Does your country recognize the "TRNC"?

kurupetos

I'm sorry that your opinions are of the nature they are. Many TC's lived in enclaves prior to 1974, many stayed in tents etc and I am sure that they did not take the windows and doors for their tents during the population exchange. Cypriots took what they could when they left their homes. Also please remember that all refugees at the time of leaving, thought that it would be sometime soon when they returned. All these years later very few have returned.

TC's where given GC houses and lands this was reciprocated in the south.

There is only 1 or 2 countries who recognise the TRNC, I am not from there. This is not about recognition. There are many TC's who view themselves as Cypriot.

stuballstu,

1. Concerning the TC enclaves: TCs chose to separate themselves from GCs after directions from Ankara.
2. TCs stayed in tents? Nonsenses Prove it. Have you ever visited the free area of RoC? If you had you should have seen the refugee houses in the surburbs of Nicosia, Limassol, Larnaca and other areas. Are there any similar in the "TRNC"? NO. Why? Because there were plenty GC houses for TCs. Not the other way around.
3. I am a GC refugee myself and I have never received any TC property as most GC had not.

If you want to write garbage for your own private or other propaganda reasons suit yourself. Nobody cares.

[T_C]

These are pictures of my family and there are many more of TCs living in tents...now why don't YOU prove to us that TCs "chose" to seperate themselves from GCs because I know for SURE that my family had to run for their lives when they left Aleftora in Limassol!

Some TCs lived in tents for nearly 10 YEARS and you come here telling us it's lies and propaganda?

[kurupetos]

TC,

prove what? That TMT was killing its own people to create tension or the abandon of public offices by the TC vice president, MPs, and public servants?

I dont believe TCs lived in tents for the following obvious reason:

If there were not enough GC houses in the "TRNC" to facilitate the TCs coming from the south how come your illegal regime brought thousands of turkish settlers from Anatolia who took GC houses in addition to those taken by the TCs.

Prove that