Cyprus-Forum.com

[kurupetos]

Kurupetos

Most TC where living in enclaves prior to 1974 and therefore find it unfeasible that they would take all their windows and doors with them, Secondly most TC's took refuge in the SBA areas when Turkish forces landed in 1974.

Many TC's still view themselves as first and foremost Cypriots, also wages are higher in the south than in the north. Only a fistful of GC's live in the north mainly due to GC attitudes to the "illegal" regime.

stuballstu,

I am sorry to say that you are completely wrong. Are you saying that GCs were not forced out of their homes but left on their own? Also TCs did take all of their belongings with them. Go and ask TCs living in the occupied areas to verify this. I have seen pictures and have witnesses to verify that also. TCs were also given GC houses and land (in most cases much more than what they possessed in the RoC). On the contrary, GCs were stacked in refugee camps like animals. What exactly do you mean that TCs view themselves as first and foremost Cypriots? Finally the "TRNC" is ILLEGAL. The 1960 Constitution which is the only legal constitution ever existed since independence prohibites the partition or annexation of the island. I understand that you are British. Does your country recognize the "TRNC"?

kurupetos

I'm sorry that your opinions are of the nature they are. Many TC's lived in enclaves prior to 1974, many stayed in tents etc and I am sure that they did not take the windows and doors for their tents during the population exchange. Cypriots took what they could when they left their homes. Also please remember that all refugees at the time of leaving, thought that it would be sometime soon when they returned. All these years later very few have returned.

TC's where given GC houses and lands this was reciprocated in the south.

There is only 1 or 2 countries who recognise the TRNC, I am not from there. This is not about recognition. There are many TC's who view themselves as Cypriot.

stuballstu,

1. Concerning the TC enclaves: TCs chose to separate themselves from GCs after directions from Ankara.
2. TCs stayed in tents? Nonsenses Prove it. Have you ever visited the free area of RoC? If you had you should have seen the refugee houses in the surburbs of Nicosia, Limassol, Larnaca and other areas. Are there any similar in the "TRNC"? NO. Why? Because there were plenty GC houses for TCs. Not the other way around.
3. I am a GC refugee myself and I have never received any TC property as most GC had not.

If you want to write garbage for your own private or other propaganda reasons suit yourself. Nobody cares.

1 Nonsense I suggest you do more un biased research into the Cyprus problem prior to 1974

2 I spend a lot of time in the "free areas of Cyprus". Turkish Cypriot has already shown pics of thier family. I used to own a house in Paphos until I sold it last year. Currently we are looking at purchasing another house in the area. As for TC land go to the village of Mandria, its not far from Paphos Airport, and look at the TC land which is now getting residential development. Why did the government of the free areas of Cyprus not allow some GC refugees like your family to use it? Please read my previous posts on this thread for my opinions on this subject. Go to Mandria and look for yourself, or are you scared what you may find because it doesn't fit your arguement?

3 There are many houses that TC refugees stay in which are at best a shambles. I know of a very good TC friend of mine who lost 6 donums in Lemesos, when he applied to the TC administration he was told because he has a British passport he is entitled to nothing. Unfortunately in Cyprus there has been a few individual winners but for each one of them there has been many loosers with the current status quo.

What I pointed it is more to do with a balanced view. There are many GC's who would deny that building is going on on TC land and justify that there has been the using of TC land for "public projects". What has happened in the north with GC land is morally and legally wrong however on one hand GC's cant pass to much judgement on that when it is going on under their own administration and is swept under the carpets.

As i said earlier on one hand you can't say don't visit the north, most of the land used to belong to GC's but its ok to land at Larnaca which used to belong to a TC. You can't have your cake and eat it.

1. We already discussed the RoC law concerning TC land.

2. I was talking post 1974. Read my reply to T_C.

3. This is between Turkey and TCs.

Also why should GCs take TC land and TCs take GC land They should take the land they originally had.

Concerning Larnaca airport being built on TC land the answer is simple: This airport was built after 1974 to replace Nicosia airport. If Turkey repairs the demolished Nicosia Int. Airport (now under UN control) and give it back to RoC, for use by GCs and TCs, Larnaca airport can be torn apart and land returned to the TC owner How about that?

[Pyrpolizer]

Up until last year we had a house at Aphrodite Hills in Paphos which we sold to our long term tenant and decided we wanted to buy another house in Paphos hence the reason for the tour of agents. We did ask them some question about deeds etc it was when this came to light about the Turkish Cypriot land. As with the many plots of "exchange" land we were offered in the north we politely declined and will continue to look for something else in the Paphos area which has a "clean" title. I can't blame the ROC government or GC's for selling the land after all the TC regime has been doing it for years but I don't think its right that some GC's refuse to believe it is happening. All they have to do is go to the village of Mandria and see the developments for themselves.

The fact is I know very well the developments at Mandria because that's part of my job. All the things you said are pure nonsense. Mandria was indeed a predominantly TC village and most of the land in there belongs to TCs. That's why the whole village from the center where the coffe shop is up to the sea which is about 3km away is basically deserted. The developments there however ARE EXCLUSIVELY ON GC LAND.(At least the ones I know). And they are very far away from the sea, because there is no GC land by the sea.

In fact there is a straight asphalted road outside the village separating the whole area in two. the first area is the one leading inland towards the centre of the village, and the second area having a width of about 1 km, leading towards the sea. Inside that 1km strip of land towards the sea there is absolutely nothing, not even one building. Only plantations separated by extremely tall rows of cypresses.

If it were like you said then it would be stupid to develop "stolen TC land" so far away from the sea don't you think?

I don't know if a TC from Mandria living abroad had perhaps returned and developed his own property. Tcs who left Cyprus before 1974 are entitled to get their land immediately as you know. Imo you got your facts wrong. Land ownership is very closely watched and is extremely difficult and risky for anyone to steal TC land.

About the argument that the Larnaca Airoport is built on TC land.This is nonsense once again. Only a small part of that area indeed belongs to a TC (i think it was about 1% of the total) but here we are talking for a public project and legal expropriation for public use, not for some stolen land distributed at will to whoever crook.

Pyrpoliser

I can assure you that I am not talking nonsense.

There are 2 developers developing TC land there. Another agent also confirmed this. It is not a TC who is returning to develop their land as I was also told that you will wait a couple of years for the deeds but dont worry it will be ok. It reminded me about the crap I heard when i bought my land in Kyrenia. I dont want any refugee coming back to me claiming back the lands which they rightfully own hence the reason we chose clear title lands in the north which was also checked out at the land register in Nicosia to confirm ownership prior to 1974.

I will be back in Paphos in a few weeks to look at some other properties. If you want I'll pm you before I come down and we can arrange to have a beer and let me pick your brains about the developments there.

And I can assure you what you are saying is just hearsay.It's one thing to say that most land at Mandria belongs to TCs (which is true) and another to say the specific developments are made on "stolen TC land". As for the title deeds that need some time to be issued this is NORMAL in every construction EVERYWHERE in Cyprus. o have individual title deeds for any villa/house in a project:

a)The project has to be completed.
b)There must be on site check by the municipality and FINAL APPROVAL that everything was done as per drawings, regulations, and initial license.
c)The whole project must be de-mortgaged from the Bank(this happens when all buyers pay)
All the above usually occur within 1 -2 years after completion. When this happens then
d)The lands registry issues individual title deeds to the buyers and this may take 1-2 years more.
So it is NOT unusual to wait for 3-4 years to get your deed ANYWHERE in Cyprus. In the meantime however the developer gives you a Bank guarantee for everything you paid, and carries all responsibility to give you the final deed.

So the time you need to get your deed is totally irrelevant as to who the developed land belongs.

Please do send me a PM for which Company you are talking about and NAME OF PROJECT and I will check it out personally. I gave you so many clues that what you said is impossible yet you insist on your initial theory.

And for your information at least one of the HUGE companies there is a public company at the Cyprus stock exchange. Do you know what it means for a company at the Cyprus Stock exchange to build on "stolen land"??? You must be joking really.

[Viewpoint]

The refugee camp (really nice houses) in Limasol built on TC land is 55 donums and a part of this has been development by private developers and sold to GCs, this is yet another example of how these issues are kept quite in the south and only a few surface and are quickly brushed to one side as unimportant, what do you call people who say one thing and do another Hypocrite that's the word.

[denizaksulu]

Agreed about comparing to today's prices, but if the Trustee is doing his job properly then the money held in trust should have been invested in bonds etc and accumulate interest. That is what trustees are supposed to do. If it is not done then there is a problem.

The coffers are empty as the GC leadership know there will never be a solution they have nothing to pay, because its only then that people will say wheres my money.

Nikitas
Some people who claim there land back are presented with a gigantic bill for unpaid taxes on land and property they had no access to since 1963. What do you say about that?

Gigantic??? Boy o' boy...

i have right in front of me my immovable property tax for this year. It is 1.5 per thousand. So for 40 or even 50 years maybe you will pay 6-8% of it's value.

Just for your information if you buy land today you have to pay 5% tax IN CASH. Just to transfer the deeds in your name....

Hey Deniz, if those people don't want their lands tell them to contact me, I will pay all the giagantic bills and get the lands for myself

You bet All else fails, buy Cyprus back. Thats a raw deal for you, isnt it Pyro?

[stuballstu]

And I can assure you what you are saying is just hearsay.It's one thing tosay that most land at Mandria belongs to TCs (which is true) and another to say the specific developments are made on "stolen TC land". As for the title deeds that need some time to be issued this is NORMAL in every construction EVERYWHERE in Cyprus. o have individual title deeds for any villa/house in a project:

a)The project has to be completed.
b)There must be on site check by the municipality and FINAL APPROVAL that everything was done as per drawings, regulations, and initial license.
c)The whole project must be de-mortgaged from the Bank(this happens when all buyers pay)
All the above usually occur within 1 -2 years after completion. When this happens then
d)The lands registry issues individual title deeds to the buyers and this may take 1-2 years more.
So it is NOT unusual to wait for 3-4 years to get your deed ANYWHERE in Cyprus. In the meantime however the developer gives you a Bank guarantee for everything you paid, and carries all responsibility to give you the final deed.

So the time you need to get your deed is totally irrelevant as to who the developed land belongs.

Please do send me a PM for which Company you are talking about and NAME OF PROJECT and I will check it out personally. I gave you so many clues that what you said is impossible yet you insist on your initial theory.

And for your information at least one of the HUGE companies there is a public company at the Cyprus stock exchange. Do you know what it means for a company at the Cyprus Stock exchange to build on "stolen land"??? You must be joking really.

Pyrpolizer

We as viewers went to view some property in Paphos and this is how it was sold to us as land formerly owned by a Turkish Cypriot prior to 1974. It is not a theory but something which has been presented to me by a GC as fact. I know how long it takes to get deeds in Cyprus, I owned a house at Aphrodite Hills. Big companies on the stock exchange mean nothing, just because they are on the exchange does not mean that they are whitere that white. As everything in Cyprus its not what you know but wholm.

As I said I'll pm you before we go back down to Paphos and meet up with you.

[Pyrpolizer]

And I can assure you what you are saying is just hearsay.It's one thing tosay that most land at Mandria belongs to TCs (which is true) and another to say the specific developments are made on "stolen TC land". As for the title deeds that need some time to be issued this is NORMAL in every construction EVERYWHERE in Cyprus. o have individual title deeds for any villa/house in a project:

a)The project has to be completed.
b)There must be on site check by the municipality and FINAL APPROVAL that everything was done as per drawings, regulations, and initial license.
c)The whole project must be de-mortgaged from the Bank(this happens when all buyers pay)
All the above usually occur within 1 -2 years after completion. When this happens then
d)The lands registry issues individual title deeds to the buyers and this may take 1-2 years more.
So it is NOT unusual to wait for 3-4 years to get your deed ANYWHERE in Cyprus. In the meantime however the developer gives you a Bank guarantee for everything you paid, and carries all responsibility to give you the final deed.

So the time you need to get your deed is totally irrelevant as to who the developed land belongs.

Please do send me a PM for which Company you are talking about and NAME OF PROJECT and I will check it out personally. I gave you so many clues that what you said is impossible yet you insist on your initial theory.

And for your information at least one of the HUGE companies there is a public company at the Cyprus stock exchange. Do you know what it means for a company at the Cyprus Stock exchange to build on "stolen land"??? You must be joking really.

Pyrpolizer

We as viewers went to view some property in Paphos and this is how it was sold to us as land formerly owned by a Turkish Cypriot prior to 1974. It is not a theory but something which has been presented to me by a GC as fact. I know how long it takes to get deeds in Cyprus, I owned a house at Aphrodite Hills. Big companies on the stock exchange mean nothing, just because they are on the exchange does not mean that they are whitere that white. As everything in Cyprus its not what you know but wholm.

As I said I'll pm you before we go back down to Paphos and meet up with you.

I am based in Nicosia but I do travel there for work once or twice a month. Actually I will be there tomorrow...

Imo what MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED, if indeed the land belonged to a TC, is that particular TC SOLD the land before 1974. This is perfectly legal.

However what you are actually talking about is a case of fraud.
Well just think about this: If indeed the case you came up to involved fraud do you think they would let everybody know about it even prospective clients like you?

And if the developments at Mandria involved fraud, how do you explain the fact those developments are NOT in any worthy piece of land, but instead so far away from the sea??

Furthermore it's been 4 years since the borders opened. Do you think the TCs haven't already checked their properties? Do you think they would just say "well who cares?" The fact is only 2 cases so far involved fraud and in both cases the ones who did it ended up in jail. Nobody can do it without having at least one accomplice at the lands registry, and another at the district administration, and another in the police. That's too many people risking ending up in jail...
And for what? For a shitty piece of land at Mandria that worths so little?

I am looking forward to receiving your PM, however I am very sorry to say that all your information so far doesn't seem to be anything more than rumors and hearsay. But like I said if you can give me specific information and name of project I can check it even if it is hearsay.

[Pyrpolizer]

Pyrpolizer

We as viewers went to view some property in Paphos and this is how it was sold to us as land formerly owned by a Turkish Cypriot prior to 1974. It is not a theory but something which has been presented to me by a GC as fact. I know how long it takes to get deeds in Cyprus, I owned a house at Aphrodite Hills. Big companies on the stock exchange mean nothing, just because they are on the exchange does not mean that they are whitere that white. As everything in Cyprus its not what you know but wholm.

As I said I'll pm you before we go back down to Paphos and meet up with you.

Here's the communication/comprehension problem I was talking about before.
Did you buy that piece of land for God sake or you just saw it?
What do you mean belonged to TC before 1974. Did for example the TC sell it in 1970? When was the actual date it changed ownership from the TC to a GC and then to you??? Do you imply it changed ownership after 1974?

I have to make so many assumptions, and ask so many questions, just to get a simple conversation through. As if I were at a coffee shop.

[Pyrpolizer]

The refugee camp (really nice houses) in Limasol built on TC land is 55 donums and a part of this has been development by private developers and sold to GCs, this is yet another example of how these issues are kept quite in the south and only a few surface and are quickly brushed to one side as unimportant, what do you call people who say one thing and do another Hypocrite that's the word.

Oh yeah? So who are the TC owners? Why don't they copy their title deeds together with the land drawings and send them to the newspapers. Why don't they go to the police?Why don't they write a letter to the EU?

Just show us something concrete. Show some proof. Rumors and hearsay is the only thing we are full.

As for the refugee camps (if indeed you are talking for refugee camps and NOT FOR SELF HOUSING CAMPS) why don't you go live there and see how nice they are?

[stuballstu]

Pyrpolizer

We as viewers went to view some property in Paphos and this is how it was sold to us as land formerly owned by a Turkish Cypriot prior to 1974. It is not a theory but something which has been presented to me by a GC as fact. I know how long it takes to get deeds in Cyprus, I owned a house at Aphrodite Hills. Big companies on the stock exchange mean nothing, just because they are on the exchange does not mean that they are whitere that white. As everything in Cyprus its not what you know but wholm.

As I said I'll pm you before we go back down to Paphos and meet up with you.

Here's the communication/comprehension problem I was talking about before.
Did you buy that piece of land for God sake or you just saw it?
What do you mean belonged to TC before 1974. Did for example the TC sell it in 1970? When was the actual date it changed ownership from the TC to a GC and then to you??? Do you imply it changed ownership after 1974?

I have to make so many assumptions, and ask so many questions, just to get a simple conversation through. As if I were at a coffee shop.

Pyrpolizer

Take it easy man and please do not make judgements on my character. As for the communication issue you are speaking about listen to what I have said.

As a viewer looking at prospective properties I was shown some by 2 developers who told me it was TC land before 1974. Can I be any clearer than that?

So are they the developers telling fibs.

I though you were based in Paphos, however as i said the next time I am in Paphos I will go to the same agents and get the brochures etc which I will gladly give to you in order that you can see for yourself.

[74LB]

Pyrpolizer

We as viewers went to view some property in Paphos and this is how it was sold to us as land formerly owned by a Turkish Cypriot prior to 1974. It is not a theory but something which has been presented to me by a GC as fact. I know how long it takes to get deeds in Cyprus, I owned a house at Aphrodite Hills. Big companies on the stock exchange mean nothing, just because they are on the exchange does not mean that they are whitere that white. As everything in Cyprus its not what you know but wholm.

As I said I'll pm you before we go back down to Paphos and meet up with you.

Here's the communication/comprehension problem I was talking about before.
Did you buy that piece of land for God sake or you just saw it?
What do you mean belonged to TC before 1974. Did for example the TC sell it in 1970? When was the actual date it changed ownership from the TC to a GC and then to you??? Do you imply it changed ownership after 1974?

I have to make so many assumptions, and ask so many questions, just to get a simple conversation through. As if I were at a coffee shop.

Pyrpolizer

Take it easy man and please do not make judgements on my character. As for the communication issue you are speaking about listen to what I have said.

As a viewer looking at prospective properties I was shown some by 2 developers who told me it was TC land before 1974. Can I be any clearer than that?

So are they the developers telling fibs.

I though you were based in Paphos, however as i said the next time I am in Paphos I will go to the same agents and get the brochures etc which I will gladly give to you in order that you can see for yourself.

Pyrpolizer
Apologies for interupting, but when stuballstu says 'sold to us' what I interpret this as saying is that that is the way it was explained/advertised by the selling agent, rather than actually buying the said property/land.


stuballstu will of course be able to confirm this...........I hope !