Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

Bir makes sense, as always.

No matter what the division and the foreign interference, the two communities always built bridges, even during the worst days of the intercommunal strife of the 60s. Now we see those bridges in the form of thousands of people who come south every day to work.

Moving into a fair society, where there is equality of status, and more important equality of opportunity (importand for all individuals not just TCs), is now easier because of the EU and its overriding provisions that take precedence over the Cyprus constitution. And also the remedies available, in European courts, which would not permit any of the past bullshit.

There will be small minorities in each community who will not relinquish their clinging to their ethnic background. Maybe for those diehards we could set aside small areas of ethnic purity, on in the north and one in the south, and in time these would become theme parks of the past.

As for the language thing, which I see as a possible obstacle, every Cypriot could be taught to understand, not speak, the other's language. There is a precedent for this, when engineers building the Concord plane back int he 60s were taught to understand French and English respectively. The plane is more complex than any project we are likely to face in daily life in Cyprus, and it got built and it works so we can conclude the engineers understood each other fairly well.

In a European society of the 21st century respect for the individual, and his uniquequness, is paramount and that should be the starting point for a Cyprus solution. Naturally the Turkish Cypriot community needs some minimum guarantees as a community, but not in the limiting form of the past. To give an example, the provision in the Constitution is that the president of the republic must be Greek Cypriot. Why not just Cypriot? And let the matter be decided by the voters themselves and the social situation prevailing at the time. It is conceivable that at some future point Cypriots would decide that the best person for the job is not a Greek Cypriot- and I think that this kind of situation is what Bir is talking about and one most of us Cypriots would like to see in the future. Where we judge the quality of the individual and not his nationality. Something we do in our daily routines now no matter where we live.

Why do you not sound sincere and why do I not trust what you say, is it because you are comfortable knowing your are the 80% and I am 20% and that GCs (and TCs) are mainly racists to a degree that they would rather vote in a monkey than have a TC as president. Judging from this forum GCs have not matured one iota from the 1960 and still want to force their domination on us reducing us to minority status rather than the community partnership as per the 1960 agreements, knowing all this would you throw yourself at the mercy of GCs and an imbalance of 80% who if not openly but psychologically still seek revenge for the past losses?

Can see what your concern is VP, however it makes little difference to you one way or another. All plans have called for a GC president, so you'd have that anyway. What Nikitas is saying why a GC president, make it a Cypriot. I believe a TC candidate would bend over backwards for the GC's anyway just to prove to the world he would not be biased. Compared to Christofias and Papadopoulos if there were a viable option of a TC candidate I would vote for him/her.

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint,

It was a point of view that I expressed. If you detect insincerity point it out.

And for your info, I know many Turkish Cypriots that I would rather vote for than any of the current crop of politicians in the Cyprus political stage. I definitely would not vote for a monkey!

I have worked with Turkish Cypriots, socialised with them and some of my best friends are Turkish Cypriots. In the UK, free of the choke hold of nationalism, people form friendships and partnerships along personal criteria. This of course does not happen n Cyprus thanks to the enforced division and the exclusion enforced by foreigners. Although there too, when i was there last month, I saw many Turkish Cypriots working and moving around apparently fearlessly.

On a personal footing, Viewpoint, do you get along with ALL Turkish Cypriots? Can you say that you cannot get along with ANY Greek Cypriot?

Nikitas there is nothing wrong with the people its the power sharing that is the problem this is what triggers off fighting and civil unrest. You live in the UK and you abide by those rules, here it is different as we do not want those rules to be set and instigated by purely GCs, we want a say in our own future, we have learned our lessons from the past on how to deal with GCs and that not to turn you back or let your guard down as they will vote for that GC monkey than have a TC for president. You obviously do not know out own people, if you claim that such things will not happen in 2007 then whats wrong with having safeguards that will not be functional if what you say is true and just in case will deter the devious GCs from doing anything like turning a united Cyprus into Greece overnight just because they are the majority.

[Viewpoint]

Bir makes sense, as always.

No matter what the division and the foreign interference, the two communities always built bridges, even during the worst days of the intercommunal strife of the 60s. Now we see those bridges in the form of thousands of people who come south every day to work.

Moving into a fair society, where there is equality of status, and more important equality of opportunity (importand for all individuals not just TCs), is now easier because of the EU and its overriding provisions that take precedence over the Cyprus constitution. And also the remedies available, in European courts, which would not permit any of the past bullshit.

There will be small minorities in each community who will not relinquish their clinging to their ethnic background. Maybe for those diehards we could set aside small areas of ethnic purity, on in the north and one in the south, and in time these would become theme parks of the past.

As for the language thing, which I see as a possible obstacle, every Cypriot could be taught to understand, not speak, the other's language. There is a precedent for this, when engineers building the Concord plane back int he 60s were taught to understand French and English respectively. The plane is more complex than any project we are likely to face in daily life in Cyprus, and it got built and it works so we can conclude the engineers understood each other fairly well.

In a European society of the 21st century respect for the individual, and his uniquequness, is paramount and that should be the starting point for a Cyprus solution. Naturally the Turkish Cypriot community needs some minimum guarantees as a community, but not in the limiting form of the past. To give an example, the provision in the Constitution is that the president of the republic must be Greek Cypriot. Why not just Cypriot? And let the matter be decided by the voters themselves and the social situation prevailing at the time. It is conceivable that at some future point Cypriots would decide that the best person for the job is not a Greek Cypriot- and I think that this kind of situation is what Bir is talking about and one most of us Cypriots would like to see in the future. Where we judge the quality of the individual and not his nationality. Something we do in our daily routines now no matter where we live.

Why do you not sound sincere and why do I not trust what you say, is it because you are comfortable knowing your are the 80% and I am 20% and that GCs (and TCs) are mainly racists to a degree that they would rather vote in a monkey than have a TC as president. Judging from this forum GCs have not matured one iota from the 1960 and still want to force their domination on us reducing us to minority status rather than the community partnership as per the 1960 agreements, knowing all this would you throw yourself at the mercy of GCs and an imbalance of 80% who if not openly but psychologically still seek revenge for the past losses?

Can see what your concern is VP, however it makes little difference to you one way or another. All plans have called for a GC president, so you'd have that anyway. What Nikitas is saying why a GC president, make it a Cypriot. I believe a TC candidate would bend over backwards for the GC's anyway just to prove to the world he would not be biased. Compared to Christofias and Papadopoulos if there were a viable option of a TC candidate I would vote for him/her.

We do not trust the 80% GC voters, easy as that.

[DT.]

Bir makes sense, as always.

No matter what the division and the foreign interference, the two communities always built bridges, even during the worst days of the intercommunal strife of the 60s. Now we see those bridges in the form of thousands of people who come south every day to work.

Moving into a fair society, where there is equality of status, and more important equality of opportunity (importand for all individuals not just TCs), is now easier because of the EU and its overriding provisions that take precedence over the Cyprus constitution. And also the remedies available, in European courts, which would not permit any of the past bullshit.

There will be small minorities in each community who will not relinquish their clinging to their ethnic background. Maybe for those diehards we could set aside small areas of ethnic purity, on in the north and one in the south, and in time these would become theme parks of the past.

As for the language thing, which I see as a possible obstacle, every Cypriot could be taught to understand, not speak, the other's language. There is a precedent for this, when engineers building the Concord plane back int he 60s were taught to understand French and English respectively. The plane is more complex than any project we are likely to face in daily life in Cyprus, and it got built and it works so we can conclude the engineers understood each other fairly well.

In a European society of the 21st century respect for the individual, and his uniquequness, is paramount and that should be the starting point for a Cyprus solution. Naturally the Turkish Cypriot community needs some minimum guarantees as a community, but not in the limiting form of the past. To give an example, the provision in the Constitution is that the president of the republic must be Greek Cypriot. Why not just Cypriot? And let the matter be decided by the voters themselves and the social situation prevailing at the time. It is conceivable that at some future point Cypriots would decide that the best person for the job is not a Greek Cypriot- and I think that this kind of situation is what Bir is talking about and one most of us Cypriots would like to see in the future. Where we judge the quality of the individual and not his nationality. Something we do in our daily routines now no matter where we live.

Why do you not sound sincere and why do I not trust what you say, is it because you are comfortable knowing your are the 80% and I am 20% and that GCs (and TCs) are mainly racists to a degree that they would rather vote in a monkey than have a TC as president. Judging from this forum GCs have not matured one iota from the 1960 and still want to force their domination on us reducing us to minority status rather than the community partnership as per the 1960 agreements, knowing all this would you throw yourself at the mercy of GCs and an imbalance of 80% who if not openly but psychologically still seek revenge for the past losses?

Can see what your concern is VP, however it makes little difference to you one way or another. All plans have called for a GC president, so you'd have that anyway. What Nikitas is saying why a GC president, make it a Cypriot. I believe a TC candidate would bend over backwards for the GC's anyway just to prove to the world he would not be biased. Compared to Christofias and Papadopoulos if there were a viable option of a TC candidate I would vote for him/her.

We do not trust the 80% GC voters, easy as that.

looks to me like everyone's willing to do their part xcept you.

[Viewpoint]

DT.

looks to me like everyone's willing to do their part xcept you.

Do you know exactly what you are asking? put your trust in the hands of 80% GC voters and pray they allow you to have say in your own future. They would rather vote for a GC monkey than a TC president.

[Kikapu]

DT.

looks to me like everyone's willing to do their part xcept you.

Do you know exactly what you are asking? put your trust in the hands of 80% GC voters and pray they allow you to have say in your own future. They would rather vote for a GC monkey than a TC president.

I did not know until this moment, that monkeys actually have a Nationality.

[denizaksulu]

DT.

looks to me like everyone's willing to do their part xcept you.

Do you know exactly what you are asking? put your trust in the hands of 80% GC voters and pray they allow you to have say in your own future. They would rather vote for a GC monkey than a TC president.

I did not know until this moment, that monkeys actually have a Nationality.

Why not . Cypriot donkeys are very famous for their endurance and strength. They also helped defeat Napoleon during his wars in the Lvant and Egypt.

[T_C]

Kikapu and Bir, thank you for your replies I will get back to you tonight after I've caught up with everything else.

[Nikitas]

There is a lot of thought in this forum about ethnic considerations, and very little thought about the class aspect of the Cyprus issue.

Yesterday in the Politis newspaper there was an article, it might have been a reader's comment which analysed the issued from a class perspective and it is interesting to consider that in relation to what Bir calls the germ of our problem- unthinking nationalism.

According to the writer the EOKA struggle of the 50s was carried out by peasant boys and its passion and effectiveness were such that they caught society by surprise. These boys won, a victory of sorts, and after independence they were rewarded with positions in the government and civil service. Most Cypriots can attest to this rewarding of "fighters" even if the only fighting they did was to release a bunch of leaflets in a deserted street at night.

The social effect of the situation was that it sideswiped the normal social order and marginalised classes who would be the natural "managers" in normal situation- the middle urban class, the technocrats, the professional classes. It might also explain the stubborn fixation on goals which were obviously not attainable.

The coming of the junta in Greece, with its psychopathic anticommunist obsession matched the mentality pervading Greek Cypriot society to a key. People here must surely remember the terminology of the time- you were judged to be "pure", "nationally minded", of the "proper nationalist fiber" and a host of other outdated crap which the middle class, the urban working class and the professionals swallowed because the peasants had the upper hand.

This ties in with Bir's opinion about unchecked nationalism. ANd I wonder if a similar upset of the social structure happened on the Turkish Cypriot side.

By the way I have nothing against peasant or village people, the term is used to denote a class of people, in the sense of "working class" "middle class" etc.

[Kikapu]

DT.

looks to me like everyone's willing to do their part xcept you.

Do you know exactly what you are asking? put your trust in the hands of 80% GC voters and pray they allow you to have say in your own future. They would rather vote for a GC monkey than a TC president.

I did not know until this moment, that monkeys actually have a Nationality.

Why not . Cypriot donkeys are very famous for their endurance and strength. They also helped defeat Napoleon during his wars in the Lvant and Egypt.

Yes, a Cypriot Donkey of course Deniz, but a "Greek Cypriot Donkey" .???