Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

Like we believe anything the "RoC" produces, and feeds the EU..come on you inflated the figures to suit your goals, do they include 40.000 Pontians?

Have you made allowances for the land stolen from TCs during the 1930s 40s 50s?????

The 40,000 Pontians are only 20,000 Pontians, they amount to only 3% in comparison to the size of the GC community, they are residents /workers due to EU citizenship, just like the British, German etc, and they were NOT GIVEN RoC citizenship!

The 130,000 mainland Turkish settlers amount to almost 100% in comparison to the size of the TC community, they are illegal colonizers to alter the demographics in violation of the Geneva Convention, and they were GIVEN TC community membership and "TRNC citizenship!"

There is no TC stolen land by anyone in the 1930s 40s 50s, set aside by the GCs! The GCs were the last to have been favored by the British, and is a well document fact that the spoiled children of the British colonialists in Cyprus were the members of the TC community, and the GCs the bad boys! It so happens that during the ottoman occupation of Cyprus, Evkaf became the possessor of substantial areas of Cyprus, thanks to the firmans of the "Grand Porte" and the various Sultans! These lands were kept unused and uncultivated, and many of them were turned into swamps for mosquitoes! consequnetly the British decided (in the 1930's) to expropriate them and SOLD them to peasants to cultivate them, or build houses (i.e. a large part pf Varosha.) In 1960, before Cyprus was given its independence, the British made a one last settlement of compensation to Evkaf of some 1.5 million pounds, to Denktash and Kutchuk, who were the guardians of the Evkaf on behalf of the TC community, and who have signed and returned a memorandum to the British, by which they verify that there is no further claim visa vie the issue of expropriated Evkaf property anywhere in Cyprus! The issue of expropriated Evkaf property was closed then, at the time Cyprus was gaining its independence! The ECHR in the Arestis vs. Turkey case had rejected the renewed TC claims /objections on the basis of allegations for "usurped" Evkaf “owned” properties!

One last question! If before the 1571 Lala Mustafa's onslaught in Cyprus, Evkaf had a zero (0%) percent of property ownership in Cyprus, from whom did you (Evkaf) buy the 30% of land ownership that you (Evkaf)claim to have acquired in Cyprus during the ottoman years, how much did you pay for it and to whom?

[oranos64]

Like we believe anything the "RoC" produces, and feeds the EU..come on you inflated the figures to suit your goals, do they include 40.000 Pontians?

Have you made allowances for the land stolen from TCs during the 1930s 40s 50s?????

The 40,000 Pontians are only 20,000 Pontians, they amount to only 3% in comparison to the size of the GC community, they are residents /workers due to EU citizenship, just like the British, German etc, and they were NOT GIVEN RoC citizenship!

The 130,000 mainland Turkish settlers amount to almost 100% in comparison to the size of the TC community, they are illegal colonizers to alter the demographics in violation of the Geneva Convention, and they were GIVEN TC community membership and "TRNC citizenship!"

There is no TC stolen land by anyone in the 1930s 40s 50s, set aside by the GCs! The GCs were the last to have been favored by the British, and is a well document fact that the spoiled children of the British colonialists in Cyprus were the members of the TC community, and the GCs the bad boys! It so happens that during the ottoman occupation of Cyprus, Evkaf became the possessor of substantial areas of Cyprus, thanks to the firmans of the "Grand Porte" and the various Sultans! These lands were kept unused and uncultivated, and many of them were turned into swamps for mosquitoes! consequnetly the British decided (in the 1930's) to expropriate them and SOLD them to peasants to cultivate them, or build houses (i.e. a large part pf Varosha.) In 1960, before Cyprus was given its independence, the British made a one last settlement of compensation to Evkaf of some 1.5 million pounds, to Denktash and Kutchuk, who were the guardians of the Evkaf on behalf of the TC community, and who have signed and returned a memorandum to the British, by which they verify that there is no further claim visa vie the issue of expropriated Evkaf property anywhere in Cyprus! The issue of expropriated Evkaf property was closed then, at the time Cyprus was gaining its independence! The ECHR in the Arestis vs. Turkey case had rejected the renewed TC claims /objections on the basis of allegations for "usurped" Evkaf “owned” properties!

One last question! If before the 1571 Lala Mustafa's onslaught in Cyprus, Evkaf had a zero (0%) percent of property ownership in Cyprus, from whom did you (Evkaf) buy the 30% of land ownership that you (Evkaf)claim to have acquired in Cyprus during the ottoman years, how much did you pay for it and to whom?

Bravo ...well said .... and detailed responce

i want all of my land back in Varosha ...all 16 acres and extras ...housing built on it for turkish colonials knocked down ...

well said regarding the Turkish cyps being the british lapdogs ..this is well doucmented in varosin area ....

[T_C]

Surely he would of sold it for more than 1.5 million if he did sell it?!?!? Thats nothing!!!!! He might as well of given it away for free...

Did this really happen? TCs????

[GreekForumer]

But that does not change the factt that the TCs at the time still owned around 31 % of the land. Knowing you will not take my word for it here is another reputable independent link for you:
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedi ... la-(Cyprus)
that says

On 20 July 1974, the initial invasion secured the port city of Kyrenia/Girne, and by the 22nd, a road access to the Cypriot capital city of Nicosia, which secured the northern (Turkish) sector. The second stage of the operation (three weeks later) extended Turkish control out to cover the north-eastern two-thirds of the island, stretching from Kokkina/Erenköy in the west to Cape Apostolos Andreas in the east, then south to Louroujina/Akincilar. This latter move was justified by the Turkish forces on the grounds that as the Turkish Cypriots had ownership of 31% of the island before 1963 - and were forced off into enclaves of just 4% of the land in the wake of the intercommunal violence, taking control of over 30% of the north was seen as redressing those land losses.

As this move forced the eviction of Greek Cypriots to the southern sector of Cyprus, this has been seen as ethnic cleansing by the Greek Cypriot government. Today, only a few enclaved Greek Cypriots remain in the north.

If you click on the link and read the article you will see that the page is not biased in favour of TCs at all - and is not TC propaganda site!

The "reputable and independent" Nationmaster.com get their "encyclopaedia" content straight from Wikipedia. The EXACT Nationmaster text can be found by searching through the previous Wiki edits. And the current Wiki edit is....

On 20 July 1974, the initial operation (Atilla I) captured the port city of Kyrenia/Girne, and by 22 July 1974 a road access to the Cypriot capital Nicosia/Lefkoşa. This secured the northern (Turkish) sector of the city. After UN talks about the withdrawal of the Turkish Army failed, the second stage of the operation (Atilla II) began on 14 August 1974 and extended Turkish control to cover the north-eastern third of the island, stretching from Kokkina/Erenköy in the west to Cape Apostolos Andreas/Zafer Burnu in the east, and then south to Louroujina/Akıncılar. This latter move was justified by the Turkish forces on the grounds that the Turkish Cypriots had ownership of 31% of the island before 1963 and were forced off into enclaves of just 3% of the island in the wake of the intercommunal violence which lasted for 11 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Atilla

The Wiki page DOES NOT CITE it's demography sources at all.

[GreekForumer]

It appears this "Operation Atilla" article was created by a contributor called Expatkiwi. The same Expatkiwi on atcanews.org no doubt.

He wrote the following paragraph on the first edit of the Wiki page and has stayed there, in a modified form, ever since.

The initial invasion secured the port city of [[Kyrenia]]/Girne, and a raod access to the Cypriot capital city of [[Nicosia]], which secured the northern (Turkish) sector. The second stage of the operation extended Turkish control out to cover the north-eastern two-thirds of the island, stretching from [[Kokkina exclave|Kokkina]]/Erenköy in the west to [[Cape Andreas Aspostos]] in the east. This latter move was justified on the grounds that as the Turkish Cypriots had ownership of 31% of the island before 1963 - and were forced off into enclaves of just 4% of the land in the wake of the intercommunal violence, taking control of over 30% of the north was seen as redressing those land losses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... d=24353189

Reputable and Independent indeed, BigOz!

[denizaksulu]

Like we believe anything the "RoC" produces, and feeds the EU..come on you inflated the figures to suit your goals, do they include 40.000 Pontians?

Have you made allowances for the land stolen from TCs during the 1930s 40s 50s?????

The 40,000 Pontians are only 20,000 Pontians, they amount to only 3% in comparison to the size of the GC community, they are residents /workers due to EU citizenship, just like the British, German etc, and they were NOT GIVEN RoC citizenship!

The 130,000 mainland Turkish settlers amount to almost 100% in comparison to the size of the TC community, they are illegal colonizers to alter the demographics in violation of the Geneva Convention, and they were GIVEN TC community membership and "TRNC citizenship!"

There is no TC stolen land by anyone in the 1930s 40s 50s, set aside by the GCs! The GCs were the last to have been favored by the British, and is a well document fact that the spoiled children of the British colonialists in Cyprus were the members of the TC community, and the GCs the bad boys! It so happens that during the ottoman occupation of Cyprus, Evkaf became the possessor of substantial areas of Cyprus, thanks to the firmans of the "Grand Porte" and the various Sultans! These lands were kept unused and uncultivated, and many of them were turned into swamps for mosquitoes! consequnetly the British decided (in the 1930's) to expropriate them and SOLD them to peasants to cultivate them, or build houses (i.e. a large part pf Varosha.) In 1960, before Cyprus was given its independence, the British made a one last settlement of compensation to Evkaf of some 1.5 million pounds, to Denktash and Kutchuk, who were the guardians of the Evkaf on behalf of the TC community, and who have signed and returned a memorandum to the British, by which they verify that there is no further claim visa vie the issue of expropriated Evkaf property anywhere in Cyprus! The issue of expropriated Evkaf property was closed then, at the time Cyprus was gaining its independence! The ECHR in the Arestis vs. Turkey case had rejected the renewed TC claims /objections on the basis of allegations for "usurped" Evkaf “owned” properties!

One last question! If before the 1571 Lala Mustafa's onslaught in Cyprus, Evkaf had a zero (0%) percent of property ownership in Cyprus, from whom did you (Evkaf) buy the 30% of land ownership that you (Evkaf)claim to have acquired in Cyprus during the ottoman years, how much did you pay for it and to whom?

Bravo ...well said .... and detailed responce

i want all of my land back in Varosha ...all 16 acres and extras ...housing built on it for turkish colonials knocked down ...

well said regarding the Turkish cyps being the british lapdogs ..this is well doucmented in varosin area ....

After the conquest in 1571., the Ottomans had the rights of the conquerer. They took over the lands of the Latin church and the lands of the Europeans, French Genoese, Venetians. .They paid for it with there blood. They also gave the Greek Cypriot population their church and land and the power to run the lives of the GCs, so stop being so ungrateful.

If the Ottomans were not so generous to the favoured peoles of Cyprus, you would not have existed today.

Regards

[Viewpoint]

Like we believe anything the "RoC" produces, and feeds the EU..come on you inflated the figures to suit your goals, do they include 40.000 Pontians?

Have you made allowances for the land stolen from TCs during the 1930s 40s 50s?????

The 40,000 Pontians are only 20,000 Pontians, they amount to only 3% in comparison to the size of the GC community, they are residents /workers due to EU citizenship, just like the British, German etc, and they were NOT GIVEN RoC citizenship!

The 130,000 mainland Turkish settlers amount to almost 100% in comparison to the size of the TC community, they are illegal colonizers to alter the demographics in violation of the Geneva Convention, and they were GIVEN TC community membership and "TRNC citizenship!"

There is no TC stolen land by anyone in the 1930s 40s 50s, set aside by the GCs! The GCs were the last to have been favored by the British, and is a well document fact that the spoiled children of the British colonialists in Cyprus were the members of the TC community, and the GCs the bad boys! It so happens that during the ottoman occupation of Cyprus, Evkaf became the possessor of substantial areas of Cyprus, thanks to the firmans of the "Grand Porte" and the various Sultans! These lands were kept unused and uncultivated, and many of them were turned into swamps for mosquitoes! consequnetly the British decided (in the 1930's) to expropriate them and SOLD them to peasants to cultivate them, or build houses (i.e. a large part pf Varosha.) In 1960, before Cyprus was given its independence, the British made a one last settlement of compensation to Evkaf of some 1.5 million pounds, to Denktash and Kutchuk, who were the guardians of the Evkaf on behalf of the TC community, and who have signed and returned a memorandum to the British, by which they verify that there is no further claim visa vie the issue of expropriated Evkaf property anywhere in Cyprus! The issue of expropriated Evkaf property was closed then, at the time Cyprus was gaining its independence! The ECHR in the Arestis vs. Turkey case had rejected the renewed TC claims /objections on the basis of allegations for "usurped" Evkaf “owned” properties!

One last question! If before the 1571 Lala Mustafa's onslaught in Cyprus, Evkaf had a zero (0%) percent of property ownership in Cyprus, from whom did you (Evkaf) buy the 30% of land ownership that you (Evkaf)claim to have acquired in Cyprus during the ottoman years, how much did you pay for it and to whom?

Bravo ...well said .... and detailed responce

i want all of my land back in Varosha ...all 16 acres and extras ...housing built on it for turkish colonials knocked down ...

well said regarding the Turkish cyps being the british lapdogs ..this is well doucmented in varosin area ....

After the conquest in 1571., the Ottomans had the rights of the conquerer. They took over the lands of the Latin church and the lands of the Europeans, French Genoese, Venetians. .They paid for it with there blood. They also gave the Greek Cypriot population their church and land and the power to run the lives of the GCs, so stop being so ungrateful.

If the Ottomans were not so generous to the favoured peoles of Cyprus, you would not have existed today.

Regards

Well said deniz, Kifeas is making illogical excuses, think of Australia and the USA, the native Americans and Aborginies should get all their land back if that was the case, think of all the wars throughout history where land changed hands, as you say theu should count themselves lucky that they were not wiped of the face of the earth.

I was referring to all the land grab they GCs made through the 30 40 50s via vie ignorant peasants not understanding land issues and very few of them could read and write. There are many TC families who still claim their land was stolen from them illegally by Gc "officials" of the time who would just dismiss their claims. I still feel that TC land is around 25-30% that's why all negotiations to date are agreed around this figure and if any closure is to be had on this issue we should allow an independent court to take all claims into consideration and settle this matter once and for all.

The settlers problem will be resolved once we agree a comprehensive solution and as per the AP, a certain criteria will be put in place to deal with this issue fairly and as humanely as possible. Will you also apply this criteria to foreigners you have granted citizenship to? as we did not authorize the Turkish settler together we did not authorize the thousands you granted residency or citizenship together or is yet again a case of one rule for GCs and another for TCs?

[zan]

CopperLine,

I need to ask you a direct question.

Were you by any chance the legal adviser to Bill Clinton during his Impeachment times. If you remember, Clinton used the phrase what the definition of "is" is. Then he said, "I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky", then turns out, she gave him a "blow job", in which Clinton said " I was not having sex with her, instead she was having sex with me". His logic being of course was, she was doing it to him, therefore it was her who was having sex with him. (I'm innocent your honour). Then later on, it was the cigar that was having sex with Lewinsky, since it was the cigar that was put inside her and not any parts from Clinton. Foreplay was not considered sex either ....That man could weasel out of anything. No wonder he was called the "Teflon Man" because what ever was thrown at him, nothing stuck.

The reason I ask is, you are using similar explanations to various questions to the Cyprus issues. For example, the definitions of Military Occupation,...... definition of Guarantor Powers,... what is a reliable census account, ......was it more reliable back in 1960, 1974, or 2004. Don't you think people knew how to count in those "medieval" times of the 1960's. Ever since I was a kid, and later in life, we TC's always accepted our population to be 4:1 ratio to the GC's in the 60's. Damn it CL, man went to the Moon in the late 60's, so stands the reason, we were able to count also.

I was very impressed with you when you first came on to the Forum, but you have slowly but surely have lost some credibility with me. So much that, I even made you one of us...a Cypriot in my recent post.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13198

I did not attach a ethnicity on you yet, but I'm sure it will be coming soon.

4:1 what One Greek Cypriot and three honorary Greeks to one Turkish Cypriot.....Same on all Greek islands I think.....Make all friendlies Greek and the rest Muslims........Nice one

[Kikapu]

CopperLine,

I need to ask you a direct question.

Were you by any chance the legal adviser to Bill Clinton during his Impeachment times. If you remember, Clinton used the phrase what the definition of "is" is. Then he said, "I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky", then turns out, she gave him a "blow job", in which Clinton said " I was not having sex with her, instead she was having sex with me". His logic being of course was, she was doing it to him, therefore it was her who was having sex with him. (I'm innocent your honour). Then later on, it was the cigar that was having sex with Lewinsky, since it was the cigar that was put inside her and not any parts from Clinton. Foreplay was not considered sex either ....That man could weasel out of anything. No wonder he was called the "Teflon Man" because what ever was thrown at him, nothing stuck.

The reason I ask is, you are using similar explanations to various questions to the Cyprus issues. For example, the definitions of Military Occupation,...... definition of Guarantor Powers,... what is a reliable census account, ......was it more reliable back in 1960, 1974, or 2004. Don't you think people knew how to count in those "medieval" times of the 1960's. Ever since I was a kid, and later in life, we TC's always accepted our population to be 4:1 ratio to the GC's in the 60's. Damn it CL, man went to the Moon in the late 60's, so stands the reason, we were able to count also.

I was very impressed with you when you first came on to the Forum, but you have slowly but surely have lost some credibility with me. So much that, I even made you one of us...a Cypriot in my recent post.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13198

I did not attach a ethnicity on you yet, but I'm sure it will be coming soon.

4:1 what One Greek Cypriot and three honorary Greeks to one Turkish Cypriot.....Same on all Greek islands I think.....Make all friendlies Greek and the rest Muslims........Nice one

So, do you or do you not agree to the 4:1 ratio Zan.

Keep it short please. If the answer is a NO, then please go ahead and explain yourself.

Thanks.

[zan]

CopperLine,

I need to ask you a direct question.

Were you by any chance the legal adviser to Bill Clinton during his Impeachment times. If you remember, Clinton used the phrase what the definition of "is" is. Then he said, "I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky", then turns out, she gave him a "blow job", in which Clinton said " I was not having sex with her, instead she was having sex with me". His logic being of course was, she was doing it to him, therefore it was her who was having sex with him. (I'm innocent your honour). Then later on, it was the cigar that was having sex with Lewinsky, since it was the cigar that was put inside her and not any parts from Clinton. Foreplay was not considered sex either ....That man could weasel out of anything. No wonder he was called the "Teflon Man" because what ever was thrown at him, nothing stuck.

The reason I ask is, you are using similar explanations to various questions to the Cyprus issues. For example, the definitions of Military Occupation,...... definition of Guarantor Powers,... what is a reliable census account, ......was it more reliable back in 1960, 1974, or 2004. Don't you think people knew how to count in those "medieval" times of the 1960's. Ever since I was a kid, and later in life, we TC's always accepted our population to be 4:1 ratio to the GC's in the 60's. Damn it CL, man went to the Moon in the late 60's, so stands the reason, we were able to count also.

I was very impressed with you when you first came on to the Forum, but you have slowly but surely have lost some credibility with me. So much that, I even made you one of us...a Cypriot in my recent post.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13198

I did not attach a ethnicity on you yet, but I'm sure it will be coming soon.

4:1 what One Greek Cypriot and three honorary Greeks to one Turkish Cypriot.....Same on all Greek islands I think.....Make all friendlies Greek and the rest Muslims........Nice one

So, do you or do you not agree to the 4:1 ratio Zan.

Keep it short please. If the answer is a NO, then please go ahead and explain yourself.

Thanks.

When you start answering my simple questions and stop avoiding them then I will oblige you......Besides you are the one that I am a lightwieght...How about you tell us how many of those 4 are real GCs......Real ones mind you and not just a a popodopolous after each name........