Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

In general, only the enlighted few go to the trouble to try to understand the other side. These few are quickly labelled as traitors by the genuine "patriots" who, as I noted previously, are absolutely sure that they are the sole bearers of the truth.

Your theory stems from a variant of Elitism; that is... a usually small and select group of people who believe to have a distinctive understanding of an issue (in this case the Cyprus problem) and thus their views and/or actions will be the most constructive for the problem at hand (solution to the Cyprus problem).

Elitism is exactly what you're criticizing your opposing compatriots of yet often fall victim to it yourself...

[Nikitas]

Bananiot,

Re the "elnightened few"

It is not the few but the majority on both sides who are non fascists. Being a regular person is not elitism! The fascists however have the nerve to hijack whole communities and guide them to hell. Cyprus is not the only country where this happened. The south has learned its lesson after 1974 and the crap has been toned way down. In the north it seems that the imported fascist element still holds sway over the community. This opinion is based on articles by left wing commentators and small but telling incidents between Turkish Cypriots and mainlanders.

[zan]

Bananiot,

Re the "elnightened few"

It is not the few but the majority on both sides who are non fascists. Being a regular person is not elitism! The fascists however have the nerve to hijack whole communities and guide them to hell. Cyprus is not the only country where this happened. The south has learned its lesson after 1974 and the crap has been toned way down. In the north it seems that the imported fascist element still holds sway over the community. This opinion is based on articles by left wing commentators and small but telling incidents between Turkish Cypriots and mainlanders.

Have you ever googled your own fascists on the net before absolving yourself as you so often do People like you make fascists and then you stand back in amazement and cry rape Have a look at your own presient before you open your mouth again

[Piratis]

In general, only the enlighted few go to the trouble to try to understand the other side.

The problem today has very little to do with "understanding the other side", and everything to do with the balance of power. Even your arguments usually boil down to something like "we screwed up in the past and now we should just take the peanuts that the powerful are willing to allow us to have, otherwise we will lose everything". How is this related with understanding the other side?

Personally I understand the other side very well. I know about their suffering, but I also about our suffering, and therefore their argument that the GCs have to now be punished while the TCs be rewarded on our loss, is simply not valid.

I also know and understand their desires and concerns for the future, but obviously I am not going to put their desires above our rights, in the same way I do not expect them to put my desires above their rights.

The first step for a peaceful solution is that both sides should show respect to the rights of the other, and after all rights of all Cypriots are secured, to see in what ways and to what degrees the various desires can be satisfied within the framework of democracy and human rights.

Just saying "I understand your feelings, your desires and your concerns, so come on take everything you want, violate my rights and show no respect to me" doesn't make you "enlightened" , it makes you a masochist.

[miltiades]

I am a British national who has settled permanently on this island. You may object to me intervening in a question that rightly should be settled by Cypriots on their own without outside interference, but a peice of graffiti that I have just witnessed has impelled me to comment. On a fence around a building site in a central area of Limassol somebody has spray painted the words (in English) "Kill Turks" three times. If you don't believe me, it is on the main road to Mesa Geitonia just after Makarios Avenue. Given this island's bloody recent history I am amazed that anybody can write such words, even if they think it is a joke. It is not so long ago that innocent people on this island were being slaughtered for the sole crime of having Turkish ethnic origin: 15 November 1967 in Kifinou/Geçitkale and 15 August 1974 in Tochni/Taşkent being two examples. Against this context this is a very sick joke indeed. By the way, I well appreciate that innocent Greek Cypriots have suffered greatly, and indeed those who continue to be deprived of the basic right to access their own homes continue to do so. I also realise that you cannot tar a whole community with the same brush and these monstrous acts were the work of criminals. However, when such a blatantly offensive peice of graffiti appears not to cause the slightest outrage within this community, one starts to wonder. I know Germany well, and I can assure you that if somebody were to write "kill Jews" on a wall there, this would provoke a major outrage, it would be cleaned off immediately, and efforts would be made to find the prepetrator. What does this show? Germany wishes to put its Nazi past behind it. So, does this island really wish to put its past behind it? For years, the nationalists in the north of Cyprus used to spout the propaganda line that without the heavily fortified green line and a massive presence of Turkish troops "We would all be slaughtered in our beds at night". Now that the barricades have come down and Cypriots cross freely in both directions, this discourse appears to be bankrupt. Or so I thought - but having witnessed this peice of graffiti and the total absence of any reaction to it locally, I wonder if this is so. Greek Cypriots need to make up their minds. Is this an island on which people of all ethnic origins can live together in peace? Then why does the appearance of such offensive graffiti appear to evoke not the slightest reaction among you? Or do at least a number of you harbour the sentiment expressed in the words "kill Turks" painted on this wall? If so, then the Turkish Cypriots are surely perfectly justified in barricading themselves into their ethnically-cleansed enclave and relying on their "Motherland" to protect them. Which is it to be?

An excellent post that highlights the insensitivity of our people to such despicable and obscene graffities . I posted last year that I took personal action on witnessing such ugly grafity and armed with a spray can obliterated the offensive writings on a wall just further up from JUMBO on the way to Ayios Athanasios. The local authorities are oblivious to the negativeness that such graffiti can have on the island and its' people.

[Viewpoint]

Would that be where we convert the whole island into a GC state and we TCs have minority rights, just like the Pakistanis in the UK? or the one where you turn Cyprus into Greece?

You still appear to be very much in the dark when it comes to understanding the other side and how to go about getting back your "rights". Its obvious that the swing in power theory is the only possible outcome that will satisfy you Piratis as you clearly have no intentions of sharing the island equally.

[miltiades]

Would that be where we convert the whole island into a GC state and we TCs have minority rights, just like the Pakistanis in the UK? or the one where you turn Cyprus into Greece?

You still appear to be very much in the dark when it comes to understanding the other side and how to go about getting back your "rights". Its obvious that the swing in power theory is the only possible outcome that will satisfy you Piratis as you clearly have no intentions of sharing the island equally.

You mentioned UK Pakistanis and minority rights before , I'm just not clear what the implication is. As far as I know in the UK all citizens are equal under the law and all have their rights , NOT MINORITY rights as you state.Perhaps you can elaborate .

[humanist]

Zan, I consider some of your coments towards Greek speaking Cypriots beyond the debate level and fear based, therefore I feel the impact of those words in a negative manner. I have not yet heard a balanced debate from you about the Cyprus problem. By this I mean that the Cyprus problem exists only between two leaderships. I think the people are well and trully over it and have shown in the past three years that they are. Sure there have been three or four incidence of racist behaviour two more serious than other. However in the scheme of things considering the current situation are not that big of a deal. They probably have more race related crimes in the UK not to mention US with no political problems. I am sure that there are slurs of similar kind in the north. Grey Wolves = Golden Dawn (mind you they put to shame both words). Papadopoulos has been an less than proactive in the Cyprus Problem over tha past years as has Talat in the last two motnhs by his childish behaviour of not wanting to meet. I don't believe neither of them has what it takes to solve the Cyprus Problem. This is what I consider a balance argument. You on the other hand go back to the 60's and beyond everytime. A place where we have been for the past 33 years.

As far as you questioning the RoC I believ e you do very little of this, and if you spent more time on questioning the RoC may be you will spend less time talking about the past that we cannot change. I would encourage anyone to question the present governments actions and stance, in relation to unification. What a dead priest 33 years ago although a mjor and significant part of where we are today will not change the fact that the RoC has been in the EU for three / four years and the Turkish Cypriots are missing out. This is not fair. We need to be working towards a solution that willbring that part of the Cypriot population to the same level as the rest. Question, challenge and present soem ideas to the current government about how do we do this how do we reach a point where all Cypriots are equal, safe and share a comon country in a common union.

[Nikitas]

Zan,

I see you took exception with a comment I made about the infulence of fascists in the Turkish Cypriot community.

Well, I tried to listen to a question and answer session organized by Mehmet Ali Birad on TV, the venue was a college in Famagusta. There was so much shouting by the a bunch of people shouting Cyprus is Turkish (so the translator said) that the event was cancelled. It was a small incident but not isolated. Then we have the deadly clashes along the Green Line. Police could have taken control, instead the imported fascist element were allowed to run the show that day.

Whatever fringe groups like the Golden Dawn might say, repeat SAY, in the south and in Greece there is not much they can DO. The Greek side has proven that over the years it has moved firmly into the European style democratic way of doing things, small every day things. This is not the result of genius at work, the implemenation of EU regulations and directives has a lot to do with it.

In the Turkish Cypriot community and Turkey itself there is a clinging to outmoded precepts that no longer serve a purpose.

As for absolving my side, that is not the case. There were mistakes, misjudgements and outright evil things done by the Greek Cypriot side. But in the perspective of a civil war, (which is what we had in Cyprus but few seem to like the term civil war so they prattle on about intercommunal fighting), these things are expected. We are not unique in being the only country in the world to have had a civil war, we are unique in managing to keep the animosity going on for generations.

[Viewpoint]

Would that be where we convert the whole island into a GC state and we TCs have minority rights, just like the Pakistanis in the UK? or the one where you turn Cyprus into Greece?

You still appear to be very much in the dark when it comes to understanding the other side and how to go about getting back your "rights". Its obvious that the swing in power theory is the only possible outcome that will satisfy you Piratis as you clearly have no intentions of sharing the island equally.

You mentioned UK Pakistanis and minority rights before , I'm just not clear what the implication is. As far as I know in the UK all citizens are equal under the law and all have their rights , NOT MINORITY rights as you state.Perhaps you can elaborate .

They may have the same rights on paper but in practice this is not the case. A Pakistani starts at a disadvantage and has to over come prejudice and racism before being considered on par with some one who is English/White and the UK is considered tolerant of its citizens with different ethnic backgrounds. Cypriots are more paranoid and they would always vote along ethnic lines to ensure they have control over the whole island. Faced with a 80% 20% imbalance there has to be safeguards in place to ensure I can get my voice heard and that I am treated as an equal partner in the business and not just a normal customer, you may not want to admit it but there is a vast difference.