Cyprus-Forum.com

[T_C]

What makes it worse it that what he described WAS happening to TCs by GCs!!!

[Nikitas]

The ability to see the other side's point of view is fundamental to solving a problem This is what Kikapu is doing in his post, I don't think he was expressing approval of the Greek inspired coup against Makarios, nor of Makarios' policy in the years preceding the coup.

In trying to find a way forward from the present impasse it is vital to understand the other side's major fears and hopes, even if the fears are largely past fears and unfounded in the present.

The Turkish operation of 1974 would have been peace operation if it had restored the legal order foreseen by the 1960 constitution, and if it had brought to justice the people, of all sides, responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity. The international legal order against these crimes did not exist then, but domestic Cypriot law could have been employed to prosecute people for conspiracy, murder, grievous bodily harm etc.

Instead we had a cynical expression of Turkey's long standing policy of partition and ethnic cleansing carried out with a ferocity unjustified by anything that happened between 1963 and 1974. The response was disproportionate to the provocation. The cynicism is evident in the statement of Bulent Ecevit- "if they had accepted our proposal in time we would not have to carry out Attila II and kill 4500 people". The means employed unnecessarily- heavy artillery, air attacks, naval bombardments against forces armed with light arms was a show of brute strength. Attila II has been termed a mistake by Turkish analysts too. It was excessive and unnecessary from any point of view, military or political.

So, in trying to understand the other side's point of view, TCs have to realise that the GC side is not going to risk facing an Attila II ever again. Like the unwillingness of the TC side to risk revival of Enosis, it is the key to approaching a solution.

[Kikapu]

There is no need to be ungrateful to the people that saved our lives...Gcs as well as Tcs. You should be hating what Greece did and what Makarios did instead.

If I were a GC, I would be thinking to myself....... Turkey came and killed Thousands of our people, Hundreds are still missing, Raped Hundreds of our women, Ethnically cleansed thousands from their homes and land and gave most of it to her people, and put 37% of our country under Military Occupation.

Gee Wees, Friends like that, who needs Enemies.

kikapu
How about you try to be a TC for a change and think from that perspective

I am a TC Iceman, but I'm also a Cypriot, so when Zan tries to make everything sound rosy with his statement that the GC should be grateful for the arrival of Turkey, I just have to look at his statement and say, "Is he for real". Most of my views on the Cyprus Problems are IMPARTIAL, much to some TC's disbelief. Sorry friend, but what we need to do is to tell the truth and not manufacture myths.

I'm willing to be corrected on this issues, so any GC's who agree with Zan's statement above, can say so, and I will retract my statement.

[Get Real!]

There is no need to be ungrateful to the people that saved our lives...Gcs as well as Tcs. You should be hating what Greece did and what Makarios did instead.

If I were a GC, I would be thinking to myself....... Turkey came and killed Thousands of our people, Hundreds are still missing, Raped Hundreds of our women, Ethnically cleansed thousands from their homes and land and gave most of it to her people, and put 37% of our country under Military Occupation.

Gee Wees, Friends like that, who needs Enemies.

Beat me to it iceman.....

Kikapu, sometimes I read your posts and think ' there's some logic behind what he is saying ', but then I read the above and think 'are you for real ? how can you say that ? '.

I'm not saying that in a war unimaginable things don't happen, but to actually say the above, even if you are ' thinking as a GC ' really is uncalled for. Would you still be saying the same things I wonder if Turkey did not intervene and what you describe above was carried out against your own community ?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - the TC's will forever be grateful that Turkey came when it did.

If Kikapu isn't allowed to put himself in the GC's shoes then don't ever expect any GC to put himself in yours in which case....

I say close off the crossings, fire all TCs working here, remove all TC privileges, tighten all the embargoes even further, and good riddance to the TC community in the land of limbo.

[Nikitas]

GR,

Adopting a racist approach, and cutting off TCs from employment in the south IS racist, is not going to right the wrongs. The TCs who come to work in the south are not the people who conceived and carried out the Attile operation and are not responsible for continuing the occupation.

[Kikapu]

There is no need to be ungrateful to the people that saved our lives...Gcs as well as Tcs. You should be hating what Greece did and what Makarios did instead.

If I were a GC, I would be thinking to myself....... Turkey came and killed Thousands of our people, Hundreds are still missing, Raped Hundreds of our women, Ethnically cleansed thousands from their homes and land and gave most of it to her people, and put 37% of our country under Military Occupation.

Gee Wees, Friends like that, who needs Enemies.

Beat me to it iceman.....

Kikapu, sometimes I read your posts and think ' there's some logic behind what he is saying ', but then I read the above and think 'are you for real ? how can you say that ? '.

I'm not saying that in a war unimaginable things don't happen, but to actually say the above, even if you are ' thinking as a GC ' really is uncalled for. Would you still be saying the same things I wonder if Turkey did not intervene and what you describe above was carried out against your own community ?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - the TC's will forever be grateful that Turkey came when it did.

I really appreciate your comments, but the fact that you do not wish to hear or accept what has happened and it is part of our history, then I'm sorry my friend, but you need to face reality.

If the same happened to us had Turkey did not intervened / Invaded, of course I would be saying the same thing. But I cannot re write history to make justifications of what has already happened with "what ifs".

TC's can be grateful to Turkey all they want, and I have not condemned that, but at the same time, lets not manufacture myths, that the GC's are also grateful given what did actually happen, after the Intervention / Invasion.

[T_C]

If Kikapu isn't allowed to put himself in the GC's shoes then don't ever expect any GC to put himself in yours in which case....

.........but you don't anyways and nor does ANY GC in here apart from miltiades!!!

SO....

[Nikitas]

TC

You have not been reading the posts carefully or in good faith. Many posts try to see both sides point of view and find a way out of the stalemate. That is what I read in both TC and GC posts.

[Get Real!]

GR,

Adopting a racist approach, and cutting off TCs from employment in the south IS racist, is not going to right the wrongs. The TCs who come to work in the south are not the people who conceived and carried out the Attile operation and are not responsible for continuing the occupation.

My response does not actually represent my views but carries a moral which I expect 74LondonBoy to pick up.

[Kikapu]

If Kikapu isn't allowed to put himself in the GC's shoes then don't ever expect any GC to put himself in yours in which case....

I say close off the crossings, fire all TCs working here, remove all TC privileges, tighten all the embargoes even further, and good riddance to the TC community in the land of limbo.

GR,

My statement was a direct response to Zan's statement regarding Turkey and the GC's. It was pointed at that only, and had nothing to do with anything else regarding relationships between the TC's and the GC's or any other Cyprus Problems.