Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

I've lost your argumet Tim sorry mate

[Tim Drayton]

I've lost your argumet Tim sorry mate

My argument, if it matters any more, is that several people here are objecting to the presence of the words "kill turks" as the title of a thread on this forum when they do not find anything objectionable about the same words appearing in large letters on a wall beside a busy thoroughfare in the centre of Limassol. I find this ironic, especially when one person who has voiced an objection to the title of this thread has previously told me that he does not object to the presence of the slogan "kill turks" on a wall. Anyway, let's move on - it appears that everybody else has.

[bigOz]

I've lost your argumet Tim sorry mate

My argument, if it matters any more, is that several people here are objecting to the presence of the words "kill turks" as the title of a thread on this forum when they do not find anything objectionable about the same words appearing in large letters on a wall beside a busy thoroughfare in the centre of Limassol. I find this ironic, especially when one person who has voiced an objection to the title of this thread has previously told me that he does not object to the presence of the slogan "kill turks" on a wall. Anyway, let's move on - it appears that everybody else has.

Well put Tim!

But you must remember, for some - sometimes - the best way to get out of a difficult situation is to pretend they do not understand what you are saying. It works wonders when you are in a foreign country and say something like "Me speak No English"! But I am not sure it is very convincing when one is participating in a forum using the frigging language!

[CopperLine]

Apologies that I've joined this discussion late. I confess that I was astounded by the opening reactions to Tim Drayton's original posting - instead of condemnation of his reporting of incitement to hatred, incitement to murder, of racism (all illegal in most EU countries) we got a dreadful attempt to justify the incitement followed by the most perverse of defamations alleging that the poster had put the graffiti up himself !

I wanted to comment on the question of rights. In the UK there are effectively no minority rights, the system and tradition of law has not developed in this way. Instead all citizens (previously subjects) are equal before the law. So in the UK there aren't different sets of rights for different groups eg Irish minority rights, Pakistani minority rights, Cypriot minority rights. Instead of attempting to protect minorities through assigning minority group rights, the development of law in the UK has been to protect minorities by applying universal laws eg, illegalising race discrimination, prohibiting hate crimes, or ensuring sex and sexual equality, and so on. In other words 'minorities' are not given special let alone privileged status, rather everyone is to be protected from hate crimes, sex discrimination, or racism. This principle has recently been extended to encompass disability discrimination.

One of the most damaging legacies of the British Empire, including the constitutional settlements that were inherited by newly independent states, Cyprus included, was the notion of 'minority rights'. That is to say, that inequality or even the simple perception of inequality between minorities and majorities was built into the system. This legacy contrasted radically with what actually happened in legal developments in the UK itself, where equality of the individual (not the group) was the way law developed. (I'm not saying that individual equality is not without its own problems, but I am saying that institutionalising different minority rights is a disaster waiting to happen).

There's a lot of guff written about 'minorities' in the UK having more rights than 'native born Brits', but it is simply nonsense in law and invariably baseless in fact.

Back to the main subject of this thread : graffitti which says 'Kill Turks'. That a Turk killed a Cypriot does not licence the killing of Turks. That a Greek raped a Cypriot does not licence the killing of Greeks. Does anyone on this forum seriously defend the practice of collective punishment, a practice formally outlawed by the Geneva Convention ? Does anyone on this forum seriously think that the sin of the grandfather should be borne by the great-granddaughter ? Does anyone on this forum seriously think that racism across generations is going to hasten a settlement of the Cyprus problem ? Does anyone on this forum seriously think that hankering after collective punishment is ever going to advance peace one iota ?

Racism kills, so kill racism. Don't tolerate it, don't excuse it, don't ignore it.

[Eliko]

Tim Drayton, welcome to the forum and good luck with your postings.

The graffiti you describe is a disgraceful piece of work and I am sure there are very few who would countenance it's message, however, there are always those among us who would take delight in seeing such comments splattered across building site fences since it is probably the only significant act they have achieved in their miserable lives.

I doubt if it carries much more weight than 'Kilroy woz 'ere' ( a well known piece of artistry world-wide), sadly, it undoubtably gives the perpetrators some warped sense of satisfaction each time they view it.

You may be sure that whoever did write those words has had little experience of warfare and I am sure the authorities are likely to be keeping a close watch on the location hoping for a return visit.

Removal would only encourage further daubing, perhaps by leaving it visible, the person or persons who wrote the words might see that as a failure and attempt to add more to it.

As to it's effect on the general attitudes of the people who read the words, one can only hope that they will treat them with the contempt they deserve, thank you for drawing attention to the matter and Best Wishes .

CopperLine, above is my response (early stage) to Tim's post.

[CopperLine]

Eliko,
I share your sentiments. Thanks.

[Piratis]

Apologies that I've joined this discussion late. I confess that I was astounded by the opening reactions to Tim Drayton's original posting - instead of condemnation of his reporting of incitement to hatred, incitement to murder, of racism (all illegal in most EU countries) we got a dreadful attempt to justify the incitement followed by the most perverse of defamations alleging that the poster had put the graffiti up himself !

CopperLine, what is illegal is the Turkish occupation of the north part of Cyprus. Defending the sovereignty of your country has never been illegal. So instead of complaining about the people that want to fight for their rights you should be complaining about the brute military force and violence that Turkey is illegally exhibiting in Cyprus.

[phoenix]

Copperline,

whilst I strongly condemn racism, I must add that further to your above post, the term "Kill Turks" is NOT racist. . . It is merely an interjection.

Now to say "Kill Inferior Turks". . . THAT would be racist.

Pip-pip
Phoenix

[oranos64]

Copperline,

whilst I strongly condemn racism, I must add that further to your above post, the term "Kill Turks" is NOT racist. . . It is merely an interjection.

Now to say "Kill Inferior Turks". . . THAT would be racist.

Pip-pip
Phoenix

hahhahahahaha

[CopperLine]

Piratis,
This thread was, I believe, introduced by the issue of graffiti which incited people to kill.

This thread was not a thread about the illegality or otherwise of invasion or occupation.

That a Turkish general or government minister ordered the invasion/intervention and occupation/peacekeeping of Cyprus does not give you or anyone else the right to call for the killing of Turks. The crime of a general is NOT the crime of an ordinary citizen.

That you might be filled with hatred does not give me a right to punish your brothers and sisters, your father and mother, for your expressed hatred.