Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

which I remind you, does NOT make Cyprus any less Greek, will make administration from far-away Athens, caught up in its own political and economic dilemma, even less attractive to us).

Why do I always start getting edgy every time I see something like that? I’ll go make a coffee and hopefully it’ll get re-edited by the time I come back…

[Kypriotiki]

I suggest all to live alone this psycho called Murataga, for he is nothing short of an extremist of the worst kind that thinks he will convince us and the rest of the world that we should gift him and his community alone the 37% of our country, as a “reward” for what he was brainwashed to believe we GCs did against them! There is no point trying to discuss anything with him, as he has no sincerity and guts to face the truth, but he only wants us to believe and also impose on us only whatever suits his and his side’s extreme irredentist ambitions and aims! It is pointless to have any discussion with him, for he thinks that by hiding behind the Turkish tanks he can be as cynical as it takes with lies and distortions, as long as the “aim” of stealing” 37% of our country is satisfied! This kind of people (from both sides,) if not isolated and eliminated, will lead this country into more bloodshed in the future! Maybe this is what he hopes, for he thinks his side -with the help of Turkey, will always be the “winner” and will eventually take over the whole of Cyprus! Such a fanatic moron he is!

I have reached the same conclusion Kifeas, well said.

The population of all Cyprus is constituted of souls all across the spectrum. If you can not deal with him, .....Tough. We have to put up with everything you throw at us. Noody has to direct others how to behave. It is called the oft quoted Democracy. You know the word .Its Greek you know.Free speech and all that

Regards
DA

Deniz, we can deal with him, but he is simply rehashing and recycling the same thing over and over again. Thanks for your lesson in democracy. I believe your sponsor and protector Turkey should teach lessons about free speech and democracy, where Orhan Pamuk and Taner Akcam nearly landed in jail for speaking freely. Try criticizing Ataturk, the national symbol who has been iconized (literally that is, his pictures have become Turkish icons) repeatedly. Or try second-guessing Turkey's denial of the Armenian Genocide. Free speech and all that. "Nobody has to direct others how to behave". OK, send that message to Ankara.

Look here. If you dont behave I will have to ask GR to intercede. You will not wind me up and cannot wind me up. If you want to mock the father of the Turks, shame on you. I am a Cypriot who speaks the lingua Turca, why pick on me to do your work. Your attacks on me are remiicent of the late 'Chimera'. You must have gone to the same school.

Where is the mocking? Is it true or false that Turkey has laws against criticizing Ataturk? Is it true or false that Ataturk's pictures, portraits, images appear in every Turkish government institution, public building, even private businesses (which are afraid of being questioned about their devotion to the state if they do not hang his picture). In fact, even in religious bookstores in Turkey, the secular anti-Islam Ataturk's picture is hanging on the wall (is it by choice?). What you call "attacks" from me are rebuttals to your endless refusal to answer direct questions directly, and shooting the messenger instead. I notice you avoid the subject of Turkish law where the issue of free speech is concerned. Skillfull, but it has hit a dead-end here.

[Kypriotiki]

I suggest all to live alone this psycho called Murataga, for he is nothing short of an extremist of the worst kind that thinks he will convince us and the rest of the world that we should gift him and his community alone the 37% of our country, as a “reward” for what he was brainwashed to believe we GCs did against them! There is no point trying to discuss anything with him, as he has no sincerity and guts to face the truth, but he only wants us to believe and also impose on us only whatever suits his and his side’s extreme irredentist ambitions and aims! It is pointless to have any discussion with him, for he thinks that by hiding behind the Turkish tanks he can be as cynical as it takes with lies and distortions, as long as the “aim” of stealing” 37% of our country is satisfied! This kind of people (from both sides,) if not isolated and eliminated, will lead this country into more bloodshed in the future! Maybe this is what he hopes, for he thinks his side -with the help of Turkey, will always be the “winner” and will eventually take over the whole of Cyprus! Such a fanatic moron he is!

I have reached the same conclusion Kifeas, well said.

The population of all Cyprus is constituted of souls all across the spectrum. If you can not deal with him, .....Tough. We have to put up with everything you throw at us. Noody has to direct others how to behave. It is called the oft quoted Democracy. You know the word .Its Greek you know.Free speech and all that

Regards
DA

Deniz, we can deal with him, but he is simply rehashing and recycling the same thing over and over again. Thanks for your lesson in democracy. I believe your sponsor and protector Turkey should teach lessons about free speech and democracy, where Orhan Pamuk and Taner Akcam nearly landed in jail for speaking freely. Try criticizing Ataturk, the national symbol who has been iconized (literally that is, his pictures have become Turkish icons) repeatedly. Or try second-guessing Turkey's denial of the Armenian Genocide. Free speech and all that. "Nobody has to direct others how to behave". OK, send that message to Ankara.

Look here. If you dont behave I will have to ask GR to intercede. You will not wind me up and cannot wind me up. If you want to mock the father of the Turks, shame on you. I am a Cypriot who speaks the lingua Turca, why pick on me to do your work. Your attacks on me are remiicent of the late 'Chimera'. You must have gone to the same school.

More relevantly, the "Ataturkisation" has resulted in northern Cypriot cities iconizing him and hanging his picture on walls everywhere. Including places where formerly the only icons were those of St. Barnabas, St. George the Dragonslayer, etc. Hope that doesn't hit a nerve of you Deniz. You are winding yourself up, Deniz. I don't know who Chimera is, nor I don't know what school it is you are talking about, figuratively or literally.

[Kypriotiki]

which I remind you, does NOT make Cyprus any less Greek, will make administration from far-away Athens, caught up in its own political and economic dilemma, even less attractive to us).

Why do I always start getting edgy every time I see something like that? I’ll go make a coffee and hopefully it’ll get re-edited by the time I come back…

Get Real, Greek as in Greek Cypriot, not part of Greece. Coffee has too much caffeine and might get you more edgy. A shot of zivania, to put your mind at ease. We accept TC as fellow Cypriots, but expect them relinquish their huge territorial conquest, and accept a division that represents the true size of their constituency and contingency. The main thoroughfare in northern Lefkosia has been named after Ataturk. Does that not make you edgy? How Cypriot is the "Father of the Turks"???

Yes we are all Cypriots, but there is a duality that exists. There are two languages, two faiths, two histories. Should we bridge the gap? Absolutely. But not at the expense of one side getting less than what it is due. We can embrace Cyprus' dual nature and diversity only when there is a restoration of property rights (yes, I advocate this for both sides, but TC's fear this will shrink their autonomous entity greatly) and mutual respect, which does not come in the form of a BIG flag of an illegal entity called the TRNC etched on the slopes of the Pendadaktylos for no other reason than to spite GC's on the other side.

Do the TC's own the Pentadaktylos as well?

If you're back from that coffee yet, Get Real, please let me know your thoughts.

[Get Real!]

Get Real, Greek as in Greek Cypriot, not part of Greece.

Much relieved… it’s good to use “GC” and thus be more specific on a forum because readers can only go by what’s exactly written here and they should not be expected to assume because they don’t.

Coffee has too much caffeine and might get you more edgy. A shot of zivania, to put your mind at ease. We accept TC as fellow Cypriots, but expect them relinquish their huge territorial conquest, and accept a division that represents the true size of their constituency and contingency. The main thoroughfare in northern Lefkosia has been named after Ataturk. Does that not make you edgy? How Cypriot is the "Father of the Turks"???
Yes we are all Cypriots, but there is a duality that exists. There are two languages, two faiths, two histories. Should we bridge the gap? Absolutely. But not at the expense of one side getting less than what it is due. We can embrace Cyprus' dual nature and diversity only when there is a restoration of property rights (yes, I advocate this for both sides, but TC's fear this will shrink their autonomous entity greatly) and mutual respect, which does not come in the form of a BIG flag of an illegal entity called the TRNC etched on the slopes of the Pendadaktylos for no other reason than to spite GC's on the other side. Do the TC's own the Pentadaktylos as well?

If you're back from that coffee yet, Get Real, please let me know your thoughts.

The huge flag on the Pendadaktilos range makes me far more edgy than a stupid street sign although it is expected that the “TRNC” will have plenty of Turkish influence because after all this illegal entity is a Turkish invention/creation so no surprises there.

You’ll find that all the issues you raise are dealt with on a regular basis but are done so on a more individual basis that is… we tackle the Pendadaktilos flag issue in a specific thread and then may deal with property issues in another. You’ll find that raising all issues at once does not yield constructive debate but confusion and fatigue.

Regards, GR.

[repulsewarrior]

Kypriotiki,

Would you accept "Greek" enclaves in the north so that displaced people can return as communities. Would you accept "Turkish" enclaves in the south for Settlers to have homes instead of houses, for restitution, and the displacements of the early 60's?

Would you support a State where all Cypriots are equal, and they stand united in defense of their Individual Rights. Would you support one of two National Assemblies as well, with your vote?

...Then, you would be living in a Bi-Zonal, Bi-Communal country, which Turkey could recognise.

[Kypriotiki]

Get Real, Greek as in Greek Cypriot, not part of Greece.

Much relieved… it’s good to use “GC” and thus be more specific on a forum because readers can only go by what’s exactly written here and they should not be expected to assume because they don’t.

Coffee has too much caffeine and might get you more edgy. A shot of zivania, to put your mind at ease. We accept TC as fellow Cypriots, but expect them relinquish their huge territorial conquest, and accept a division that represents the true size of their constituency and contingency. The main thoroughfare in northern Lefkosia has been named after Ataturk. Does that not make you edgy? How Cypriot is the "Father of the Turks"???
Yes we are all Cypriots, but there is a duality that exists. There are two languages, two faiths, two histories. Should we bridge the gap? Absolutely. But not at the expense of one side getting less than what it is due. We can embrace Cyprus' dual nature and diversity only when there is a restoration of property rights (yes, I advocate this for both sides, but TC's fear this will shrink their autonomous entity greatly) and mutual respect, which does not come in the form of a BIG flag of an illegal entity called the TRNC etched on the slopes of the Pendadaktylos for no other reason than to spite GC's on the other side. Do the TC's own the Pentadaktylos as well?

If you're back from that coffee yet, Get Real, please let me know your thoughts.

The huge flag on the Pendadaktilos range makes me far more edgy than a stupid street sign although it is expected that the “TRNC” will have plenty of Turkish influence because after all this illegal entity is a Turkish invention/creation so no surprises there.

You’ll find that all the issues you raise are dealt with on a regular basis but are done so on a more individual basis that is… we tackle the Pendadaktilos flag issue in a specific thread and then may deal with property issues in another. You’ll find that raising all issues at once does not yield constructive debate but confusion and fatigue.

Regards, GR.

Good suggestion. You are right, the TRNC is a Turkish invention/creation. And what still bothers me is that it is a BIG chunk of Cyprus.

[Kypriotiki]

Kypriotiki,

Would you accept "Greek" enclaves in the north so that displaced people can return as communities. Would you accept "Turkish" enclaves in the south for Settlers to have homes instead of houses, for restitution, and the displacements of the early 60's?

Would you support a State where all Cypriots are equal, and they stand united in defense of their Individual Rights. Would you support one of two National Assemblies as well, with your vote?

...Then, you would be living in a Bi-Zonal, Bi-Communal country, which Turkey could recognise.

That is something that ALL Cypriots must decide. I am not anathema to the idea, but why is Turkey's recognition paramount here? I can accept what you are suggesting provided it is done with total parity, and not as a form of Greek Cypriot capitulation to Turkey's military might, and not as an expedient measure to soften Turkey's hold on the north. It must be done fairly. The question is this now. Can a "united" Cyprus function with TWO National Assemblies if it is divided into GC and TC cantons throughout the island with no territorial contiguity, given the reality that Turkish Cypriot identity has been radicalized immensely by Ankara's export of Kemalism to the island, which has now shaped TC attitudes towards such a plan. I wager that TC's voted yes, knowing that most GCs would vote "OXI" because of some of the disparities in the Annan Plan which would compromise GC territorial claims. The devil is and was in the details you see. But TCs got what they wanted. It was a risk worth taking in their eyes, since the odds that it would be a NO from the other side were pretty good (even the TCs themselves knew it was not favorable to GCs and to most self-respecting Greek Cypriots was not palatable). The TC gain was in convincing the international community that they were approachable and willing to compromise. The removal of Turkish troops should have been a precondition to the vote, or plebiscite if you will, since no GC could vote "yes" as long as Turkish troops remained in the north...after all how can their confidence not be compromised by this reality?
Turkish troops should not be in the north, no matter how compromising or how intransigent the government in the RoC is. A NATO member that violates the NATO charter not to mention international law!

[Kypriotiki]

Once again, the question of territorial continuity and contiguity will exist if there are to be TWO National Assemblies. Such a government would fail if we are to create TC or GC cantons throughout the island (which I could digest easily if it is done by statistics and what the actual ethnic census is), if there are two governing bodies. Under one consolidated government, this (cantonisation) would not be an issue. That is what GC's are asking for. I would have no problem with the original Makarios/Kucuk model, BEFORE what Turks refer to as GC changes to the Constitution and the "Thirteen Amendments". It would have to reflect Cyprus' true demographic make-up however. A prerequisite to ANY negotiation is the departure of Turkish troops. Any ACTUAL negotiation over the future of Cyprus is premature as long as this condition has not been met.

Now, if one is to opt for territorial consistency, then the 18 percent for the TRNC is what I propose.

[humanist]

NG

How about you catch a flight and whitewash the wall on which the words "KILL TURKS" are there for all to see. That includes all the TCs and tourists in the area. I personally would be ashamed if "KILL GREEKS" were inscribed on a wall of the TRNC. I can assure you it would be a matter of minutes before it was destroyed.

mock me if you will, it is not the first time you have done it NG. Yes I do find the two words together offensive and yes I am ashame that Cypriots have stoop so low. I am also man enough to admit it. Can you do the same, or would you take the first shot against a Greek speaking Cypriot?