Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Murat aga,

the man just offered you 18 per cent, independence, separate state and recognition, and you seem to be refusing him and confusing me. What is it you want to happen to correct the wrongs you have suffered? And this is not a rhetorical question, I want to know what people see as a solution. Zan made it clear, separate independent state, so has Kypriotiki. Some others want a united island. You got me all muddled up.

[Kifeas]

I suggest all to live alone this psycho called Murataga, for he is nothing short of an extremist of the worst kind that thinks he will convince us and the rest of the world that we should gift him and his community alone the 37% of our country, as a “reward” for what he was brainwashed to believe we GCs did against them! There is no point trying to discuss anything with him, as he has no sincerity and guts to face the truth, but he only wants us to believe and also impose on us only whatever suits his and his side’s extreme irredentist ambitions and aims! It is pointless to have any discussion with him, for he thinks that by hiding behind the Turkish tanks he can be as cynical as it takes with lies and distortions, as long as the “aim” of stealing” 37% of our country is satisfied! This kind of people (from both sides,) if not isolated and eliminated, will lead this country into more bloodshed in the future! Maybe this is what he hopes, for he thinks his side -with the help of Turkey, will always be the “winner” and will eventually take over the whole of Cyprus! Such a fanatic moron he is!

[denizaksulu]

I agree wrong choice of words but the fact remains that they are large and i mean large families...also they get them married young via proxy...

end of the day its either turkey goes through changes, or splits up...and this is not far away anymore...we are talking of a time frame of 20 years...today they 25 have representatives in parliament...in 20 years they will control parliament...provided turkey goes through changes...if she doesn't, well that could be the balance of powers piradis keeps on talking about...with 50% kurds in turkey, and with the current situation and kurdistan knocking on the doorstep, i don't think the kurds are gonna be too forgiving...


all in a space of the next 20 years...

annan 5 come on down...he might still win the peace nobel prize... ...provided he doesn't croak it

can't discount the kurdish factor...its there and it spells massive domestic problems for turkey

Pitsilos, I would hate to rock your boat, but there quite a number of Kurds in the Roc. Does it bother you? that with your reckoning it will not be long for them to 'breed like rabbits (your words) and turn you in to a minority?

No disagreement my end on this position, taking into account that historically Kurds killed much more Greeks than Turks did.-They were under the orders of Turks of course.

Your obs re: Kurds indicate that you have looked into the Kurdish prob. Apart from the last statement, throughout history they have been a law unto themselves. When it suited them(The Kurds) they fought side by side with the Turkish army, when they were taxed per tent they would vanish in to thin air over the border in to Iran . Iraq then being a province of the Ottoman Empire. They were also mainly responsible (I suspect you know) for the large unrest in the eastern provinces at the beginning of the 20th Century.

Regards
DA

I Am not here to protect the Kurds position in history or in Turkey, I am not here to protect Tcs interests and positions either-Both sounds the same for me and this is the reason Tcs should have the rights Kurds have in Turkey

I think your best bet is to study the Kurdish people inside Turkey. They do have democracy there contrary to everybodys belief. They do vote in Kurdish MPs. They do have a voice, yet things are not perfect as I am sure you will immediately point out. If I may, in Turkish there is an oft quoted saying 'Kirk senelik Yanni, olur mu Kani'. Literally can a 40 year old Greek George, become a Turkish Kani. You cannot change the Kurds short of a miracle. It takes time for all these changes to take place. They decided on the armed struggle, and while that goes on Life gets difficult for the Turks. I put it too simply but you need to go and live in Turkey and experience it. I would only comment on Cyprus, because I know its people.
Regards
DA

It seems that you have not read the human rights watch report i posted before-do not blame us- we based what we are saying on official reports.You have to read/surch yourselve and not to believe to Ankara's propaganta

You are right. I do not listen to propaganda wherever it comes from. From my reply I did say you would have something to say meaning that I am aware of the shortcomings of Turkey. Yet you wish the same on us.
Thanks

[denizaksulu]

I agree wrong choice of words but the fact remains that they are large and i mean large families...also they get them married young via proxy...

end of the day its either turkey goes through changes, or splits up...and this is not far away anymore...we are talking of a time frame of 20 years...today they 25 have representatives in parliament...in 20 years they will control parliament...provided turkey goes through changes...if she doesn't, well that could be the balance of powers piradis keeps on talking about...with 50% kurds in turkey, and with the current situation and kurdistan knocking on the doorstep, i don't think the kurds are gonna be too forgiving...


all in a space of the next 20 years...

annan 5 come on down...he might still win the peace nobel prize... ...provided he doesn't croak it

can't discount the kurdish factor...its there and it spells massive domestic problems for turkey

Pitsilos, I would hate to rock your boat, but there quite a number of Kurds in the Roc. Does it bother you? that with your reckoning it will not be long for them to 'breed like rabbits (your words) and turn you in to a minority?

No disagreement my end on this position, taking into account that historically Kurds killed much more Greeks than Turks did.-They were under the orders of Turks of course.

Your obs re: Kurds indicate that you have looked into the Kurdish prob. Apart from the last statement, throughout history they have been a law unto themselves. When it suited them(The Kurds) they fought side by side with the Turkish army, when they were taxed per tent they would vanish in to thin air over the border in to Iran . Iraq then being a province of the Ottoman Empire. They were also mainly responsible (I suspect you know) for the large unrest in the eastern provinces at the beginning of the 20th Century.

Regards
DA

I Am not here to protect the Kurds position in history or in Turkey, I am not here to protect Tcs interests and positions either-Both sounds the same for me and this is the reason Tcs should have the rights Kurds have in Turkey

I think your best bet is to study the Kurdish people inside Turkey. They do have democracy there contrary to everybodys belief. They do vote in Kurdish MPs. They do have a voice, yet things are not perfect as I am sure you will immediately point out. If I may, in Turkish there is an oft quoted saying 'Kirk senelik Yanni, olur mu Kani'. Literally can a 40 year old Greek George, become a Turkish Kani. You cannot change the Kurds short of a miracle. It takes time for all these changes to take place. They decided on the armed struggle, and while that goes on Life gets difficult for the Turks. I put it too simply but you need to go and live in Turkey and experience it. I would only comment on Cyprus, because I know its people.
Regards
DA

It seems that you have not read the human rights watch report i posted before-do not blame us- we based what we are saying on official reports.You have to read/surch yourselve and not to believe to Ankara's propaganta

You are right. I do not listen to propaganda wherever it comes from. From my reply I did say you would have something to say meaning that I am aware of the shortcomings of Turkey. Yet you wish the same on us.
Thanks

Regards
DA

[Kypriotiki]

I see Murat Aga, so all the talk about the National Guard, but how skillfully you avoid the subject of the TNT and Volkan, etc. "Hellenization" seems to have found its counterpart and evil twin in "Turanization" and "Turkification" of nearly half the island (40 percent is pretty close to half) which again is not in proportion to Cypriot demographics. Why is it you keep avoiding this issue Murat? Or is this like the 1948 U.N. partition plan of Palestine, whereby outside settlers who made up less than 5-10 percent of Palestine at the time were given a generous share of the land, (slightly more than half the country), and the locals who had lived there continously for centuries were given slightly less than half according to the U.N. Plan (so as you see, the Annan Plan is not the only "attractive" plan to emanate from the U.N.).

Then there's the history lesson: Cyprus was Ottoman, the Ottomans acquired it from the Venetians not Greeks (and pray tell WHO did the Veneetians take it from????) blah blah blah. Which community has continously been there for centuries??? Our history in Cyprus goes back two millenia, yours 500 years (transplants from Anatolia were the original settlers) including many from heavily Kurdish eastern Turkey (might find some Kurds on the family tree there you know).

And of course you have the Assembly of Turkish American Associations, a powerful lobbying body in Washington that enjoys the support of AIPAC and pro-Israel Congressman Robert Wexler, yet you are talking about how we are trying to manipulate European politics. Are you trying to tickle us there Murat?

[denizaksulu]

[quote="Kypriotiki"]I see Murat Aga, so all the talk about the National Guard, but how skillfully you avoid the subject of the TNT and Volkan, etc. "Hellenization" seems to have found its counterpart and evil twin in "Turanization" and "Turkification" of nearly half the island (40 percent is pretty close to half) which again is not in proportion to Cypriot demographics. Why is it you keep avoiding this issue Murat? Or is this like the 1948 U.N. partition plan of Palestine, whereby outside settlers who made up less than 5-10 percent of Palestine at the time were given a generous share of the land, (slightly more than half the country), and the locals who had lived there continously for centuries were given slightly less than half according to the U.N. Plan (so as you see, the Annan Plan is not the only "attractive" plan to emanate from the U.N.).

Then there's the history lesson: Cyprus was Ottoman, the Ottomans acquired it from the Venetians not Greeks [size=24][color=red](and pray tell WHO did the Veneetians take it from????) blah blah blah. [/color][/size] Which community has continously been there for centuries??? Our history in Cyprus goes back two millenia, yours 500 years (transplants from Anatolia were the original settlers) including many from heavily Kurdish eastern Turkey (might find some Kurds on the family tree there you know).

And of course you have the Assembly of Turkish American Associations, a powerful lobbying body in Washington that enjoys the support of AIPAC and pro-Israel Congressman Robert Wexler, yet you are talking about how we are trying to manipulate European politics. Are you trying to tickle us there Murat? [/quote]


....and since you have asked, the Lusignans.

Regards
DA

[denizaksulu]

I see Murat Aga, so all the talk about the National Guard, but how skillfully you avoid the subject of the TNT and Volkan, etc. "Hellenization" seems to have found its counterpart and evil twin in "Turanization" and "Turkification" of nearly half the island (40 percent is pretty close to half) which again is not in proportion to Cypriot demographics. Why is it you keep avoiding this issue Murat? Or is this like the 1948 U.N. partition plan of Palestine, whereby outside settlers who made up less than 5-10 percent of Palestine at the time were given a generous share of the land, (slightly more than half the country), and the locals who had lived there continously for centuries were given slightly less than half according to the U.N. Plan (so as you see, the Annan Plan is not the only "attractive" plan to emanate from the U.N.).

Then there's the history lesson: Cyprus was Ottoman, the Ottomans acquired it from the Venetians not Greeks (and pray tell WHO did the Veneetians take it from????) blah blah blah. Which community has continously been there for centuries??? Our history in Cyprus goes back two millenia, yours 500 years (transplants from Anatolia were the original settlers) including many from heavily Kurdish eastern Turkey (might find some Kurds on the family tree there you know).

And of course you have the Assembly of Turkish American Associations, a powerful lobbying body in Washington that enjoys the support of AIPAC and pro-Israel Congressman Robert Wexler, yet you are talking about how we are trying to manipulate European politics. Are you trying to tickle us there Murat?

.....and since you have asked, the LUSIGNANS!
Regards
DA

[BirKibrisli]

All this talk about the Kurds outbreeding the Turks and taking over Turkey etc reminds me of a Hodja Nasreddin Joke...


Hodja owed his neighbour a lot of money...And he was sick of telling the usual stories about why he couldn't repay...so on the last occasion the neigbour called for his money Hodja had a different story.

"I have a great plan for repaying the money I owe you," he said beaming..."you see those thorn bushes I have planted along my fence???
well,when they are mature...they will have great thorns....and when flocks of sheep pass by some of their wool will be collected by the thorns....and I will pick all that wool off the thorns,sell them and repay your money..." Seeing that the neighbour started laughing Hodja exclaimed,"Go on laugh ,you son-of-a-gun,now that you know you have real money coming your way ...you can afford laughing ..."

[denizaksulu]

All this talk about the Kurds outbreeding the Turks and taking over Turkey etc reminds me of a Hodja Nasreddin Joke...


Hodja owed his neighbour a lot of money...And he was sick of telling the usual stories about why he couldn't repay...so on the last occasion the neigbour called for his money Hodja had a different story.

"I have a great plan for repaying the money I owe you," he said beaming..."you see those thorn bushes I have planted along my fence???
well,when they are mature...they will have great thorns....and when flocks of sheep pass by some of their wool will be collected by the thorns....and I will pick all that wool off the thorns,sell them and repay your money..." Seeing that the neighbour started laughing Hodja exclaimed,"Go on laugh ,you son-of-a-gun,now that you know you have real money coming your way ...you can afford laughing ..."

Nice one
Reagards
Deniz

[Kypriotiki]

I suggest all to live alone this psycho called Murataga, for he is nothing short of an extremist of the worst kind that thinks he will convince us and the rest of the world that we should gift him and his community alone the 37% of our country, as a “reward” for what he was brainwashed to believe we GCs did against them! There is no point trying to discuss anything with him, as he has no sincerity and guts to face the truth, but he only wants us to believe and also impose on us only whatever suits his and his side’s extreme irredentist ambitions and aims! It is pointless to have any discussion with him, for he thinks that by hiding behind the Turkish tanks he can be as cynical as it takes with lies and distortions, as long as the “aim” of stealing” 37% of our country is satisfied! This kind of people (from both sides,) if not isolated and eliminated, will lead this country into more bloodshed in the future! Maybe this is what he hopes, for he thinks his side -with the help of Turkey, will always be the “winner” and will eventually take over the whole of Cyprus! Such a fanatic moron he is!

I have reached the same conclusion Kifeas, well said.