Cyprus-Forum.com

[EPSILON]

Epsilon man, please tell me you are making a humorous comment about the Turks being a special race and holy etc. !

It was clear that my post was refering to the way some Turks are thinking, is not of course my position, at the time I am Greek.

[pitsilos]

BO, i think I know a bit more than meets the eye...

but I would like you to focus on the following...today in Turkey we have about 70million people...the kurds sit at about 20 million...they breed like rabbits, with at least 12 kids per family...now you do the maths, and you did say your very good at maths and come and tell me a figure...

I say as time goes on turkey will go through changes...either she does or the kurds ain't gonna be too kind to you... and i hope for your sake they have a short memory...

I would say judging by todays situation in turkey with the kurds, I think its pretty safe to say that in 20 years we will be dealing with the kurds about you...you will see as time goes on turkey might even inherit the annan plan coz she likes the gist of it

and please be my guest and celebrate the today...you've been doing it for 33 years...all together now hip hip horay ...but others are celebrating the tomorrow and this what you fail to see...nice dreams BO

ps...if you want to know my source, just say so and i will invite a couple of mountain turks to explain it to you...

Mate! You are the one living a dream - I am alive and living reality today - another 33 years and I am dead, so who gives a shit? You do not have a source, you just make things up as you go along based on hearsay and flawed info! I hav3e visited South Eastern Turkey few times and have a good knowledge of the developments in that area. Just in case you did not know, most people in that area now own a mobile phone and a satellite receiver on their mud roofs! Surely they can't be doing that bad?

Where is your source that Kurds are 20 million? Prove it! Officially they are around 10-12 million - these inflated figures always float around for propaganda. Just like there are only few thousand Turks in Thrace!? Next year it will be 30 million - talk is cheap "re gumbaro"! Dream on and Turkey might be overrun with Kurds one day.

Who cares about the Kurds who had moved to settle in Turkey in their hundreds of thousands (and increased since) each time they were attacked by Syria or Iraq over the past 50 years? They are guests who have overstayed their welcome and now think they might actually own the country - not that they do because most are happy to be Turkish citizens.

You seem to be pretty ill informed on the subject of Kurds. Those who actually live in Turkey are Turkish citizens and not Kurdish. They have moved on and very happy in the current economic and political environment they live in South Eastern Turkey together with ethnic Arabs and Turks for that matter. The so called current "Kurdish" problem is with those who actually live in North Iraq and are not even recognised by the Kurdish nation who declared their own autonomous state in the area. They are nothing but a bunch of terrorists paid and supported by other nations (including RoC) who like to see Turkey's economy sabotaged by such activities.

On the odd occasion they manage to infiltrate into the country their terrorist activities are usually aimed at helpless women and children making up the tourists in Turkish resorts on the Aegean- some fucking freedom fighters they are!

Do not worry yourself with the Kurdish problem Turkey may or may not have at the moment - they are very capable of dealing with terrorists. Currently 120,000 soldiers are on the Iraq border waiting for the word GO! The Americans have already asked them to move in, but just like they never took any notice of America when they asked to keep out of North Iraq 5 years ago, they are not taking any notice of them now! They'll do it when they think it is the right time and trust me there will not be any terrorist left in a single cave in that part of the world. That is exactly what happened in SE Turkey 15 years ago when the army moved in against the ones who were camped in Turkey.

If I were you I would worry more about your constant claim of "Greekness" being the divine right to own and live in Cyprus! You are in EU now, and long before Turkey is overrun by multiplying Kurds (as you imply not for the first time), GCs will be a minority in South Cyprus amongst, not only the influx from Balkans, but from non-EU countries like Russia, India/Pakistan, and Middle East. So you go and worry about that for now!

and turkey is gods gift to mankind...well i am sold...where do i sign?

it looks like i will be inviting a couple of "mountain turks" to explain it to you in detail...and you can tell them all you want...but i can tell you, the rosie picture you are painting ain't a true reflection on whats happening down there...in the SE...

would you like me to start a new thread, so there will be no excuse of this one getting buried...

even with the 12 million are you able to tell me some projections, lets say the next 10 and 20 years?...as i said before the current attitude of turning a blind eye, will be turkeys downfall...either go democratic, or risk cracking open the next 20 odd years...and if you think this will happen instantaneous, you are mistaken, its gonna be long and its gonna be bloody...

[pitsilos]

Do not worry yourself with the Kurdish problem Turkey may or may not have at the moment - they are very capable of dealing with terrorists. Currently 120,000 soldiers are on the Iraq border waiting for the word GO! The Americans have already asked them to move in, but just like they never took any notice of America when they asked to keep out of North Iraq 5 years ago, they are not taking any notice of them now!

classic...

[EPSILON]

[quote="bigOz

Kurds in Turkey
Main articles: Kurds in Turkey, Turkish Kurdistan, Human rights in Turkey, and Kurdistan Workers Party
About half of all Kurds live in Turkey. According to the CIA Factbook they account for 20 percent of the 70 million people of Turkey, thus numbering about 15 million people.[52] Other estimates vary between 12 to 15 million. They are predominantly distributed in the southeastern corner of the country.[53]

Some sources for you

[EPSILON]

[quote="bigOz

AND SOME MORE SOURCES

The Turkish government has consistently thwarted attempts by the Kurds to organize politically. Kurdish political parties are shut down one after another, and party members are harassed and imprisoned for "crimes of opinion." Most famously, in 1994 Leyla Zana--who, three years prior, had been the first Kurdish woman elected to the Turkish parliament--was sentenced to 15 years for "separatist speech." Her party was banned. More recently, in June the leaders of the pro-Kurdish People's Democracy Party (HADEP) were sentenced to several-year prison terms for allegedly having ties with the outlawed PKK guerillas. The state prosecutors' evidence consisted largely of press releases found in the HADEP offices from a news agency close to the PKK.

GOODNIGHT VIETNAM!!!!!!

[EPSILON]

[quote="bigOz

and more......

Adding to the grievances of Turkey's Kurds is the economic underdevelopment of the southeast. The Ankara government has systematically withheld resources from the Kurdish region. As a result, there are two distinct Turkeys: the northern and western regions are highly developed and cosmopolitan, part of the "first world," while the south and east are truly of the "third world."

[EPSILON]

[quote="bigOz

AND A BIG BUT MOST OFFICIAL ONE

Rest rictions on Freedom of Expression
Turkey has a long record of restricting peaceful expression and prosecuting those who peacefully express critical views of state policies on controversial issues such as secularism and religion, ethnicity, or the role of the army, or who question state-sanctioned interpretations of history. Human rights defenders in Turkey and internationally have repeatedly called on the Turkish government to abolish penal code article 301 (“insulting Turkishness and the state institutions”) and similar provisions that are often used to prosecute such speech. Instead of repealing these laws, however, the state continues to prosecute and convict writers, journalists, publishers, and human rights activists for their peaceful speech and expression. Although the Turkish public is increasingly willing to discuss even difficult and previously taboo topics, elements of the judiciary and some politicians continue to attempt to limit such public discourse and prevent greater public scrutiny and criticism of the conduct of Turkish state institutions.

While there are no official statistics on the total number of ongoing prosecutions for freedom of expression and speech-related offenses, the media monitoring desk of the Istanbul-based online news service Bianet has calculated that 132 individuals and seven publications had trial hearings for speech-related offenses in May-June 2007. Bianet reported that 12 of these cases involved charges brought under article 301; five under article 216 ("inciting hatred and enmity”), and four under articles relating to "making terrorist propaganda.”13

Numerous prosecutions, as well as some convictions, under article 301 occurred during 2007. The indictment of the Nokta journalist and his interviewee, mentioned above, is one such pending case. The following two other cases are typical of the trend:

İbrahim Güçlü, spokesman for the Diyarbakır Kurdish Association (Kürd-Der), was charged under article 301 for “insulting Turkishness and the Turkish Republic” for a speech he made in 2005 about the killing of 33 Kurdish villagers in Van in August 1943 (the so-called “Muğlalı incident”), on the 62nd anniversary of the killings. On January 24, 2007, the Diyarbakır Court of First Instance No. 5 found Güçlü guilty and sentenced him to 18 months’ imprisonment. He has appealed the verdict.
On July 11, human rights defender Eren Keskin received a one-year sentence converted to a fine (US$3,400) under article 301. Çerkezköy Penal Court of First Instance convicted her for a speech made on February 20, 2005, at an event organized by the Çerkezköy district headquarters of the Kurdish party DEHAP during which Keskin had referred to “Turkey’s dirty history” and used the word “Kurdistan.”
Though there are few prosecutions under the Law on Crimes Committed against the Memory of Atatürk, one recent example was especially striking:

On March 13, 2007, Atilla Yayla, a professor of politics and political economy at Gazi University in Ankara and president of the Association for Liberal Thinking, was charged with “insulting Atatürk” for critical comments about Kemalism, as well as for his comments on the difficulty of explaining to foreign visitors the preponderance of images of Atatürk, which he made during a November 18, 2006 panel discussion in Izmir on the Social Impact of EU-Turkey Relations. On November 21, 2006, Yayla had been notified by the university that he would not be allowed to continue teaching pending the results of a disciplinary investigation by the university. He was later reinstated after receiving a reprimand. However, he now faces a possible three-year prison sentence if convicted in the trial begun against him on April 30 in Izmir. That trial is ongoing.
(See also discussion of the charges of speech-related offenses brought against the Kurdish Democratic Society Party, below.)

The pattern of prosecutions demonstrates an intolerance of free discussion and an impulse to defend state institutions perceived as being under threat. Although prosecutions under article 301 have been directed against writers, journalists, academics, and public figures across the political spectrum, most of the prosecutions brought under other articles of the law have been aimed at those who have emphasized questions of (mainly Kurdish) ethnicity in their writings and are often singled out because of their political affiliations and/or activism. Human Rights Watch raised a number of these cases in a letter to the Turkish prime minister in April 2007.14

[denizaksulu]

I agree wrong choice of words but the fact remains that they are large and i mean large families...also they get them married young via proxy...

end of the day its either turkey goes through changes, or splits up...and this is not far away anymore...we are talking of a time frame of 20 years...today they 25 have representatives in parliament...in 20 years they will control parliament...provided turkey goes through changes...if she doesn't, well that could be the balance of powers piradis keeps on talking about...with 50% kurds in turkey, and with the current situation and kurdistan knocking on the doorstep, i don't think the kurds are gonna be too forgiving...


all in a space of the next 20 years...

annan 5 come on down...he might still win the peace nobel prize... ...provided he doesn't croak it

can't discount the kurdish factor...its there and it spells massive domestic problems for turkey

Pitsilos, I would hate to rock your boat, but there quite a number of Kurds in the Roc. Does it bother you? that with your reckoning it will not be long for them to 'breed like rabbits (your words) and turn you in to a minority?

[EPSILON]

I agree wrong choice of words but the fact remains that they are large and i mean large families...also they get them married young via proxy...

end of the day its either turkey goes through changes, or splits up...and this is not far away anymore...we are talking of a time frame of 20 years...today they 25 have representatives in parliament...in 20 years they will control parliament...provided turkey goes through changes...if she doesn't, well that could be the balance of powers piradis keeps on talking about...with 50% kurds in turkey, and with the current situation and kurdistan knocking on the doorstep, i don't think the kurds are gonna be too forgiving...


all in a space of the next 20 years...

annan 5 come on down...he might still win the peace nobel prize... ...provided he doesn't croak it

can't discount the kurdish factor...its there and it spells massive domestic problems for turkey

Pitsilos, I would hate to rock your boat, but there quite a number of Kurds in the Roc. Does it bother you? that with your reckoning it will not be long for them to 'breed like rabbits (your words) and turn you in to a minority?

No disagreement my end on this position, taking into account that historically Kurds killed much more Greeks than Turks did.-They were under the orders of Turks of course.

[pitsilos]

no regards at the end?...and be careful with the rocking of the boat, i get motion sickness

and to your reply yes they might live in the RoC but way under a different system...wouldn't you agree?...or unless you comparing the RoC democracy with the wannabe Turkish one...please give a break...lets stop comparing apples and oranges...

and while you are at it see from where they came and as to WHY they happened to be in the RoC...maybe refugees might be a hint...and then this begs another question...running from who?...or rather running from whos democracy?...

ps...i did say wrong choice of words, but i suppose in your haste to ask me a question you must have overlooked it...see that it doesn't happen again