Cyprus-Forum.com

[EPSILON]

You are threatening countries to act against us with the rights and privelages of recognition you stole from us; nothing new there- congratulations ! You stole RoC to achieve ENOSIS and the politics of countries as mandated by international interets let you get away with this. Recognition of the TRNC is related to the final settlement of the Cyprus Problem. A couple of more OXI`s from you guys and we`ll be all set


Interesting position- "we threatening countries!!!!!!!" Powerfull Greek Cypriots!!!!!!!

Your problem is that your leadership and even your education in scholls never explained to you that "there is an international law" which all civilized countries have to respect. The problem of course is that we are speaking about democratic and civilized countries and not pirates and generals regimes.


The problem for you and even for some of the Gcs is that you consider it fair and reasonable the 18 per cent of the population (the most remains of Ottoman occupation) to request TAKSIM and even worst 50/50 share of the Island but ENOSIS which was the request of the popularity it was a prohibited product to be even announced as intention.

It is clear and personally i never hide this that if the Gcs had the military power the only fair and democratic solution and always in line with international law , would be the will of the popularity.

As I said elsewhere if a fair and democratic solution could be applied in Cyprus you should have maximum 5 representatives in the parliament to protect your minority rights and thats all.

Someone maybe told you that Turks is the special rice in Earth and therefore you have rights which no other Ethnicity has.

The problem from Gcs is only the military power of the pirates of Ankara however the good sign is that these pirates behavor leeds them directly to the colapse like Hitler, Milosevits, Housein in Iraq etc etc.

I personally agree that the Gcs leadership, because of the above mentioned disability of military power are following wrong direction in Cyprus problem, following always the demands of the powerful party who is the invator.

They have not yet realised that ourdays the human rights are much more powerful than the bigerr army in the world. They have not realised that if the stuck on European Community provisions for human rights and internal practices the invators position for indepedent stata and green horses will collapse or the invated country will colapse itself under the pressure of its crimes.

We know very well how it works. We have visited Asia Minor or Istanbul where all the Ancient Greek momuments are presented to foreigners by Turks tourist guides as creations of Turks ancestors.

The same thing will happen in Cyprus if the Gcs leadership and population continue to consider themselves as to belong to "Cyprus Nation" and therefore of same origin of Tcs.

The Gcs leadership can not yet realise that any proposal for solution like Annan plan will not guide to a cooperation with 70-80000 Tcs but with 100million Turks.

The duty of a leadrship to is to find ways for its population survival. If we allow Gcs to loose their Ethicity in a chaos of a solution like the one proposed by Annan then the time will be close the Hellenism in Cyprus to be lost for ever.

I am addressing all above to you, be on the other side, in order to have a real picture how the things are in Gcs side and not to hide ourselves about theories of brothers with Tcs and fair solutions stories- There can not be a fair and democratic solution under the todays circumstances since if such solution ever apply you should have less rights in Cyprus than these you had per Zyrich treaty.

[Nikitas]

Pitsile,

Having lived through the changes in Greek society in the last 30 years I can see that many changes are possible even in the most conservative societies.

Recently a series of interviews with Turkish people from all walks of life was aired on CNN. They talked themselves of "white Turks and black Turks" meaning those that are western in outlook and those that are conservative and more islamic. Future developments will depend a lot on which influence rises to the top and how the standard of living will be in 20 years time. It can easily be that the Turks of the future wil be more "white" and will have a higher standard of living and be more interested in their holiday home and second car than chuvinist pipe dreams.

If you visit the eastern Aegean islands you will see Turkish families holidaying next to Austrians and Germans and obviously enjoying the rewards of their labors just like other Europeans. SO the positive change in Turkish outlook does not have to come about through dissolution and upheaval. IT can be done with credit cards rather than guns just like it happened to the rest of us!

[pitsilos]

who is doubting what you say?...and i wish the quicker the better...that will mean a lot of attitude changing...it also means path towards a trully democratic society with respect to the rule of law...democracy at last... and then i woke up all smiles and singing till i logged on this forum

mate we are talking 70 million and not the population of istambul, izmir and anakara...we talking about the whole country...kurds have had enough with assimilation...period...

and please answer the question i posed to you...is internal strife in turkey good or bad for the RoC

never...never discount the kurdish factor...

[EPSILON]

Pitsile,

Having lived through the changes in Greek society in the last 30 years I can see that many changes are possible even in the most conservative societies.

Recently a series of interviews with Turkish people from all walks of life was aired on CNN. They talked themselves of "white Turks and black Turks" meaning those that are western in outlook and those that are conservative and more islamic. Future developments will depend a lot on which influence rises to the top and how the standard of living will be in 20 years time. It can easily be that the Turks of the future wil be more "white" and will have a higher standard of living and be more interested in their holiday home and second car than chuvinist pipe dreams.

If you visit the eastern Aegean islands you will see Turkish families holidaying next to Austrians and Germans and obviously enjoying the rewards of their labors just like other Europeans. SO the positive change in Turkish outlook does not have to come about through dissolution and upheaval. IT can be done with credit cards rather than guns just like it happened to the rest of us!

We can fully agree on this statement. The problem is that this refers to no more of 1/5 of the Turkey's population.Even in Istanbul you can find this huge descrimination between the population. We agree that there are many Turkish citizens with no differences in life style etc from us or other Europeans. They are many in numbers in comparison with Greeks but they are very few in comparison with Turkish population.

A very big mistake we in the West , make is that we consider that the Islamic populations which decide to live the West life style are became also lovers of the West. This is a big mistake. They can live like us, they can dress like us and maybe can make big progress as society, but always will hide a big hade against the West . These will be the Neo Islamist who mabe take over the power in some Muslim countries and when this will happen then they will show their real face against the West and of course this cetain time will be their end.

[bigOz]

BO, i think I know a bit more than meets the eye...

but I would like you to focus on the following...today in Turkey we have about 70million people...the kurds sit at about 20 million...they breed like rabbits, with at least 12 kids per family...now you do the maths, and you did say your very good at maths and come and tell me a figure...

I say as time goes on turkey will go through changes...either she does or the kurds ain't gonna be too kind to you... and i hope for your sake they have a short memory...

I would say judging by todays situation in turkey with the kurds, I think its pretty safe to say that in 20 years we will be dealing with the kurds about you...you will see as time goes on turkey might even inherit the annan plan coz she likes the gist of it

and please be my guest and celebrate the today...you've been doing it for 33 years...all together now hip hip horay ...but others are celebrating the tomorrow and this what you fail to see...nice dreams BO

ps...if you want to know my source, just say so and i will invite a couple of mountain turks to explain it to you...

Mate! You are the one living a dream - I am alive and living reality today - another 33 years and I am dead, so who gives a shit? You do not have a source, you just make things up as you go along based on hearsay and flawed info! I hav3e visited South Eastern Turkey few times and have a good knowledge of the developments in that area. Just in case you did not know, most people in that area now own a mobile phone and a satellite receiver on their mud roofs! Surely they can't be doing that bad?

Where is your source that Kurds are 20 million? Prove it! Officially they are around 10-12 million - these inflated figures always float around for propaganda. Just like there are only few thousand Turks in Thrace!? Next year it will be 30 million - talk is cheap "re gumbaro"! Dream on and Turkey might be overrun with Kurds one day.

Who cares about the Kurds who had moved to settle in Turkey in their hundreds of thousands (and increased since) each time they were attacked by Syria or Iraq over the past 50 years? They are guests who have overstayed their welcome and now think they might actually own the country - not that they do because most are happy to be Turkish citizens.

You seem to be pretty ill informed on the subject of Kurds. Those who actually live in Turkey are Turkish citizens and not Kurdish. They have moved on and very happy in the current economic and political environment they live in South Eastern Turkey together with ethnic Arabs and Turks for that matter. The so called current "Kurdish" problem is with those who actually live in North Iraq and are not even recognised by the Kurdish nation who declared their own autonomous state in the area. They are nothing but a bunch of terrorists paid and supported by other nations (including RoC) who like to see Turkey's economy sabotaged by such activities.

On the odd occasion they manage to infiltrate into the country their terrorist activities are usually aimed at helpless women and children making up the tourists in Turkish resorts on the Aegean- some fucking freedom fighters they are!

Do not worry yourself with the Kurdish problem Turkey may or may not have at the moment - they are very capable of dealing with terrorists. Currently 120,000 soldiers are on the Iraq border waiting for the word GO! The Americans have already asked them to move in, but just like they never took any notice of America when they asked to keep out of North Iraq 5 years ago, they are not taking any notice of them now! They'll do it when they think it is the right time and trust me there will not be any terrorist left in a single cave in that part of the world. That is exactly what happened in SE Turkey 15 years ago when the army moved in against the ones who were camped in Turkey.

If I were you I would worry more about your constant claim of "Greekness" being the divine right to own and live in Cyprus! You are in EU now, and long before Turkey is overrun by multiplying Kurds (as you imply not for the first time), GCs will be a minority in South Cyprus amongst, not only the influx from Balkans, but from non-EU countries like Russia, India/Pakistan, and Middle East. So you go and worry about that for now!

[EPSILON]

Not getting involved in the discussion any more, but you might be interested to know that there is now a link to this thread on a mainland Turkish website!
http://www.turkishdigest.com/2007/08/cy ... turks.html

And now what ?- do we have to expect something bad? In such a case I am living to hide in mountains

looks like everyone's taking the piss out of you there as well Tim.

Unfortunately for you i will take my laptop with me

[Nikitas]

Well as the philosopher said "the devil himself does not know what is in a mans mind" and these neo Islamists might harbor a secret hetred for us all, but as long as they ACT as European who cares?

What is a little strange is the insistence of Big Oz to paint a pretty picture for the life of the Kurds in the south of Turkey. It reminds me of our propaganda about the condition of the Turkish Cypriots in the 60s. The fact is that the use of the Kurdish language is still not fully permitted and the community is not free to call itself by whatever name it chooses. About the same situation that Big Oz is finding so intolerable in Cyprus that in his mind justifies partition. Like I said, philosophical and political inconsistency.

If the partition of Cyprus should be so obvious to us all why is it not suitable for the Kurds? At least for those that do not want to live like Turks and demand their own state? What exactly is wrong with that aspiration and Tureky finds it necessary to send 120 000 soldiers to squash it? That is what I do not understand in Biz Oz's view. Is it a case that what is good enough for Turkish Cypriots is not good enough for Kurds? A hint of racism there?

[EPSILON]

Well as the philosopher said "the devil himself does not know what is in a mans mind" and these neo Islamists might harbor a secret hetred for us all, but as long as they ACT as European who cares?

What is a little strange is the insistence of Big Oz to paint a pretty picture for the life of the Kurds in the south of Turkey. It reminds me of our propaganda about the condition of the Turkish Cypriots in the 60s. The fact is that the use of the Kurdish language is still not fully permitted and the community is not free to call itself by whatever name it chooses. About the same situation that Big Oz is finding so intolerable in Cyprus that in his mind justifies partition. Like I said, philosophical and political inconsistency.

If the partition of Cyprus should be so obvious to us all why is it not suitable for the Kurds? At least for those that do not want to live like Turks and demand their own state? What exactly is wrong with that aspiration and Tureky finds it necessary to send 120 000 soldiers to squash it? That is what I do not understand in Biz Oz's view. Is it a case that what is good enough for Turkish Cypriots is not good enough for Kurds? A hint of racism there?

The reason for which you can not understand the difference between the two cases is that you have not realised that Turks are of a special race.They do not count as normal humans but is the holly race in Earth. This justify their position

[Nikitas]

Epsilon man, please tell me you are making a humorous comment about the Turks being a special race and holy etc. !

[Nikitas]

Just cannot accept any position re national mentality etc. Just too racist for me.

Nikitas