Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Zan,

YOu talk of separate states. OK let us hypothesise that the Greek side accepts that deal. Have you seen the separating line proposed in the Annan plan? IT was a geographic maze, drawn solely according the the choices of the Turkish army officers and what they considered defensible. In all those maps the Greek side was split in two by the British Dekelia base that stretches from the sea and touches the Turkish sector. If you want two states then you must accept the principle that good fences make good neighbors. And in whose territory are the British bases? If they leave who fills that void? These and other questions have to be answered before anyone can convicne me that the two state solution is a good idea. Because unless these things are stated honestly and in detail then the two state solution smells like the first stage of a total Turkish takeover of the whole island. The Turkofication of the north is evidence enough- the local population has been mostly replaced with settlers and as the Turkish prime minister said, who cares if the Cypriots leave, we have more people to put there. It is reasonable to assume that he has similar plans for the south in the future. The only way to defend yourself against such a perceived threat is to enter into all kinds of alliances and the result will be two separated armed camps getting ready for the final showdown. In effect we are talking about enforced double union whether the people in the south want it or not. How do you prevent this? Or dont you want to prevent it?

By doing what you keep saying is not doable...Talking with the Cypriot people.... Simple really. What you are doing in reality is holding us to ransom and as far as I know that only breeds fanatics and has not worked in hundreds of years......Look at Gaza... Luckily we are not that desperate and guess what...It's all thanks to Turkey. She knows how to protect her interests....

[Nikitas]

Kikapu,

Re the question of territory. One of the few dynamic assertions made by Greek politicians over Cyprus was that of former prime minister Mitsotakis who told Mesut Yilmaz that in case of a federation the territory issue is not important, however in the case of outright partition "we are not prepared to let you get away with more than a proportional share". Consider that both these politicians belong to the wider conservative group of the european conservative ranks.

It would help if these plans come out in the open and people realise that the choice is between a united country where there is access to 100 per cent of the territory, a federal situation where the proportion is 70-30 and outright partition where the proportion will be nearer 80-20 accompanied by double union. In each case both sides are more or less denies access to the territory of the other. That is what I make of Mr Talat's statement that applying in full the European principle of freedom of movement negates biregionality.

On a more personal note, I cannot understand how anyone can leave Paphos and want to settle permanently in Kyrenia or Karpasia after a settlement is found. No offence meant to Kyrenians or Karpasites, but the Paphos district is a much more attractive area. Like I said a personal note even though I do not come from there.

[repulsewarrior]

"If we start to consider ourselves as well as anybody else living in Cyprus to belong to the famous "Cyprus Nation" then no problem for Anatolians and others to participate in this no history based nation/state.People like Kifeas and others can be part of it - we will never do so."

Three Governments, one State and two National Assemblies.

[Kypriotiki]

Zan,

YOu talk of separate states. OK let us hypothesise that the Greek side accepts that deal. Have you seen the separating line proposed in the Annan plan? IT was a geographic maze, drawn solely according the the choices of the Turkish army officers and what they considered defensible. In all those maps the Greek side was split in two by the British Dekelia base that stretches from the sea and touches the Turkish sector. If you want two states then you must accept the principle that good fences make good neighbors. And in whose territory are the British bases? If they leave who fills that void? These and other questions have to be answered before anyone can convicne me that the two state solution is a good idea. Because unless these things are stated honestly and in detail then the two state solution smells like the first stage of a total Turkish takeover of the whole island. The Turkofication of the north is evidence enough- the local population has been mostly replaced with settlers and as the Turkish prime minister said, who cares if the Cypriots leave, we have more people to put there. It is reasonable to assume that he has similar plans for the south in the future. The only way to defend yourself against such a perceived threat is to enter into all kinds of alliances and the result will be two separated armed camps getting ready for the final showdown. In effect we are talking about enforced double union whether the people in the south want it or not. How do you prevent this? Or dont you want to prevent it?

By doing what you keep saying is not doable...Talking with the Cypriot people.... Simple really. What you are doing in reality is holding us to ransom and as far as I know that only breeds fanatics and has not worked in hundreds of years......Look at Gaza... Luckily we are not that desperate and guess what...It's all thanks to Turkey. She knows how to protect her interests....

Zan, nothing is feasible as long as Turkish Cypriots feed off Mother Turkey's umbilical cord. Then comes the question, are the Turkish Cypriots we are talking to true indigenous ones, or Turkish "Cypriots" who'se connection to the Anatolian mainland only goes back one generation, and who are still "Turks first" and cannot and will not give up their connection to the country (Turkey) their parents were born in. Add to that the continued military occupation by Turkey, which is there to maintain Turkish territorial claims to 40 percent of the island, and facilitate the arrival of settlers from the other side of the Mediterranean, the same way the Israeli army maintains a military presence in the West Bank, under whose auspices settlements have mushroomed all over. The rapid population growth in the North can be attributed mainly to a steady influx of settlers from Turkey, rather than a high birth-rate for true native Turkish Cypriots, most of who have migrated to the British Isles or the South Pacific.

[Murataga]

Zan,

YOu talk of separate states. OK let us hypothesise that the Greek side accepts that deal. Have you seen the separating line proposed in the Annan plan? IT was a geographic maze, drawn solely according the the choices of the Turkish army officers and what they considered defensible. In all those maps the Greek side was split in two by the British Dekelia base that stretches from the sea and touches the Turkish sector. If you want two states then you must accept the principle that good fences make good neighbors. And in whose territory are the British bases? If they leave who fills that void? These and other questions have to be answered before anyone can convicne me that the two state solution is a good idea. Because unless these things are stated honestly and in detail then the two state solution smells like the first stage of a total Turkish takeover of the whole island. The Turkofication of the north is evidence enough- the local population has been mostly replaced with settlers and as the Turkish prime minister said, who cares if the Cypriots leave, we have more people to put there. It is reasonable to assume that he has similar plans for the south in the future. The only way to defend yourself against such a perceived threat is to enter into all kinds of alliances and the result will be two separated armed camps getting ready for the final showdown. In effect we are talking about enforced double union whether the people in the south want it or not. How do you prevent this? Or dont you want to prevent it?

By doing what you keep saying is not doable...Talking with the Cypriot people.... Simple really. What you are doing in reality is holding us to ransom and as far as I know that only breeds fanatics and has not worked in hundreds of years......Look at Gaza... Luckily we are not that desperate and guess what...It's all thanks to Turkey. She knows how to protect her interests....

Zan, nothing is feasible as long as Turkish Cypriots feed off Mother Turkey's umbilical cord. Then comes the question, are the Turkish Cypriots we are talking to true indigenous ones, or Turkish "Cypriots" who'se connection to the Anatolian mainland only goes back one generation, and who are still "Turks first" and cannot and will not give up their connection to the country (Turkey) their parents were born in. Add to that the continued military occupation by Turkey, which is there to maintain Turkish territorial claims to 40 percent of the island, and facilitate the arrival of settlers from the other side of the Mediterranean, the same way the Israeli army maintains a military presence in the West Bank, under whose auspices settlements have mushroomed all over. The rapid population growth in the North can be attributed mainly to a steady influx of settlers from Turkey, rather than a high birth-rate for true native Turkish Cypriots, most of who have migrated to the British Isles or the South Pacific.

GCs have had us under an ambargo for 44 years now remember? What do you want us to feed on - sea water?

"Occupation of the Turkish Army" is your imagination and a necessary propaganda tool for you to hold on to what you have usurped from the TC community: their rights to politically exist and represent themselves. As long as you respect our existence in our seperate zone in this island, you have nothing to worry about the Turkish Army.

[humanist]

You have had yourself under an embargo for 33 years, end of story on that one

[denizaksulu]

You have had yourself under an embargo for 33 years, end of story on that one

Good morning Humanist. Must be the heat that keeps you up. I hopb!b e its not the cypro

[BirKibrisli]

"If we start to consider ourselves as well as anybody else living in Cyprus to belong to the famous "Cyprus Nation" then no problem for Anatolians and others to participate in this no history based nation/state.People like Kifeas and others can be part of it - we will never do so."

Three Governments, one State and two National Assemblies.

A very warm welcome to you,Mr RW!!!
I am delighted to see that the number of True Cypriots in this Forum has just grown by one...Happy postings...Regards, Mr B...

[Murataga]

You have had yourself under an embargo for 33 years, end of story on that one

Sorry to bust your bubbles but it is 44 years of ambargo by the GCs, beacuse we refsed to give up what was our right and stood in the way of having this island annexed to Greece. Oh by the way.. it doesn`t split into two between the time when we were caged into the enclaves and the time we managed to get out

44 is the fact on this one, the "story" is for you to make up to anesthetize your conscience so you can sleep at night.

[humanist]

Deniz

Good morning Humanist. Must be the heat that keeps you up. I hopb!b e its not the cypro

good morning Deniz, the heat is not keeping me up. It is bloody freezing over here. Injustice and human rights violations, hatered and discrimination does concern me.