Cyprus-Forum.com

[EPSILON]

Our side we consider that manyl foreigners and many times also many so called "Cypriots" trying to find the reasons of the Cyprus problem and the possible solution make a basic mistake.

EPSILON, my very confused, messed up and fucked up friend, do you recognize Cyprus (RoC) as an independed and sovereign nation-state, yes or no?

If you do not, just like the Turks do, it means you are also a Turk, because there is no country in the world other than the Turks, which does not recognize Cyprus (RoC) as a nation-state! If you do not recognize Cyprus as a country, then please explain to us what the UN list as one of their member nations under the name of Cyprus, and what the EU has admitted as its member, again under the name of Cyprus! What have they admitted and recognize as Cyprus, a “hot, thin air?” A clout in the sky? Please explain!

If on the other hand you do recognized the existence of Cyprus as a nation-state, just like the UN and the EU do, as well as the rest of the world with the exception of only the Turks, then please explain to us what the citizens of this nation-state with the name Cyprus are called! Are they called Cypriots or are they “so-called Cypriots,” as you have made us? If we are “so-called Cypriots,” as you have claimed above, then also Cyprus as a nation-state is a “so-called nation-state,” (just like the “TRNC,”) which means that you do not recognize Cyprus and the RoC as such and therefore you are either a Turk or you have a very fucked up mind!

EPSILON, if I was so messed and fucked up like you, I would have committed suicide so that I rest my soul, instead of posting in the forums! It is never too late EPSILON! Do make the brave but right decision!

When Kifeas you will grow up you will be able to understand the difference of been Cypriot citizen under the impossed ROC state (if you remember this ROC created one night like the other one which was ready to be created by Annan plan) and my nationality which is Greek.

[EPSILON]

The name of this topic should be changed. Any newcomer would think its a forum for right wing Greek fanatics!!
Regards
DA

Fanastics who are accepting to discuss with peole like Tallat who is the spokeman of the invasion forces in NC. Fanatics who were near to sign a contract allowing you officially what you have stolen from them. Fanatics who are still consider Tcs citizens of ROC without any obligation but only rights.

If you are looking for fanatics look northern than NC where the peole main problem is whether women allowed to have a headscarf.Or better look to gray wolves and there representatives in NC, like this famous minister who killed a Greek civilian because he was demostrating againt the invasion army. - Really where is this great man? Do you have any info about him?

[zan]

The name of this topic should be changed. Any newcomer would think its a forum for right wing Greek fanatics!!
Regards
DA

Fanastics who are accepting to discuss with peole like Tallat who is the spokeman of the invasion forces in NC. Fanatics who were near to sign a contract allowing you officially what you have stolen from them. Fanatics who are still consider Tcs citizens of ROC without any obligation but only rights.

If you are looking for fanatics look northern than NC where the peole main problem is whether women allowed to have a headscarf.Or better look to gray wolves and there representatives in NC, like this famous minister who killed a Greek civilian because he was demostrating againt the invasion army. - Really where is this great man? Do you have any info about him?

And Talat will speak to a man who is the author of the Akritas plan and the killer of his own people as well as the TCs.

You make it sound as if the basic human rights that are afforded to ever person on this planet, on paper any way, is the great Greek giveaway of the century. They are not yours to give but the property of MAN and of the EU in your case. The fanatics of the TRNC/KKTC are those that are formed after years of being held under siege by you guys. Those that voted yes to a plan that would have ended this whole affair. Those that are now so disillusioned that nothing but a two state solution will suffice. You have created the fanatics fanatic in which you are the first of those fanatics. You fight for land and we fight for a right to exist as a community within our own country. Our very identity is at risk and you wonder why fanatics exist. ENOSIS was the aim and partially it has been obtained. Total power is now the aim and the power sharing that was signed for by our very first ever president, is not being allowed to exist. The same power sharing that has been seen as the best thing for Cyprus by nearly every country in the world and every organisation. Those that have worked hard, as in the UN, have had enough of your arrogance and will put this right the only other way they can. That is to have to separate states and if you want to join in and have a possible loose federation then so be it but this thing is going to happen...Make no mistake about that.

[humanist]

Erolz I may be wrong but I may be right,

[Nikitas]

Zan,

YOu talk of separate states. OK let us hypothesise that the Greek side accepts that deal. Have you seen the separating line proposed in the Annan plan? IT was a geographic maze, drawn solely according the the choices of the Turkish army officers and what they considered defensible. In all those maps the Greek side was split in two by the British Dekelia base that stretches from the sea and touches the Turkish sector. If you want two states then you must accept the principle that good fences make good neighbors. And in whose territory are the British bases? If they leave who fills that void? These and other questions have to be answered before anyone can convicne me that the two state solution is a good idea. Because unless these things are stated honestly and in detail then the two state solution smells like the first stage of a total Turkish takeover of the whole island. The Turkofication of the north is evidence enough- the local population has been mostly replaced with settlers and as the Turkish prime minister said, who cares if the Cypriots leave, we have more people to put there. It is reasonable to assume that he has similar plans for the south in the future. The only way to defend yourself against such a perceived threat is to enter into all kinds of alliances and the result will be two separated armed camps getting ready for the final showdown. In effect we are talking about enforced double union whether the people in the south want it or not. How do you prevent this? Or dont you want to prevent it?

[Viewpoint]

Would that be where we convert the whole island into a GC state and we TCs have minority rights,

No RoC citizen has "minority rights" regardless of their ethnic background. What you're probably referring to is the TC community having an overall minimized influence on the island and that would be quite correct and democratic given their small number.

...just like the Pakistanis in the UK? or the one where you turn Cyprus into Greece?

You seem to have a problem with the Pakistani community in the UK! What exactly is that problem? Are you implying that the Turkish Cypriot community in the UK has more rights than the Pakistani? Where did you get that from? Why don't you use YOUR OWN community for your meaningless example???

VP, although you are generally a courteous and well spoken fellow I often find that the CONTENT of your posts is so baseless that it does you no justice...

Do you know why this is the case? you do not want to understand what I am saying so you mentally try to block it out and dismiss it, thats the easy way out.

The Pakistanis are just an example these can the GCs or the TCs Polish Indians etc....their ethnic background is not the point, the point is that the majority view them as bloody foreigners and they are always at a disadvantage.

Do you regard TCs in Cyprus = to TCs, Polish or Indians living in the UK?

Your response to the above question will reveal your viewpoint to everyone thus proving where you stand.

VP , huge difference here mate. The Pakistanis along with the majority of Asians , by their own choice have remained distinctly separate from the natives. They dress differently , they teach their children that the natives are "infidels" that the culture of the natives is rotten to the core , they dislike our pets and carry on if living in Pakistan , Bangladesh etc.The T/C are part of the " natives " of Cyprus they are not from a past century or two and the T/C looks very much like a G/C .
The Pakistanis and the rest have come to the UK on their own free will , adapt and be accepted remain distant and you will be seen as such, a bloody foreigner , dont like it tough !

Thank you for pointing out the difference...could you please explain this to Get Real as he feels we are no different from the Pakistanis, Polish, GCs living in the UK and is having problems understanding the reasoning behind my argument therefore dismissing it as meaningless or baseless.

The bottom line is we TCs as a community want a say in our own future, trying to hide behind the facade "but we are all equal citizens" will not cut it for us. The safeguards and structures have to be put in place like Switzerland, Belgium and Ex Serbia Montenegro where GCs cannot just bypass us and drive us towards a situation that we as a community do not want therefore against our will.

[EPSILON]

The name of this topic should be changed. Any newcomer would think its a forum for right wing Greek fanatics!!
Regards
DA

Fanastics who are accepting to discuss with peole like Tallat who is the spokeman of the invasion forces in NC. Fanatics who were near to sign a contract allowing you officially what you have stolen from them. Fanatics who are still consider Tcs citizens of ROC without any obligation but only rights.

If you are looking for fanatics look northern than NC where the peole main problem is whether women allowed to have a headscarf.Or better look to gray wolves and there representatives in NC, like this famous minister who killed a Greek civilian because he was demostrating againt the invasion army. - Really where is this great man? Do you have any info about him?

And Talat will speak to a man who is the author of the Akritas plan and the killer of his own people as well as the TCs.

You make it sound as if the basic human rights that are afforded to ever person on this planet, on paper any way, is the great Greek giveaway of the century. They are not yours to give but the property of MAN and of the EU in your case. The fanatics of the TRNC/KKTC are those that are formed after years of being held under siege by you guys. Those that voted yes to a plan that would have ended this whole affair. Those that are now so disillusioned that nothing but a two state solution will suffice. You have created the fanatics fanatic in which you are the first of those fanatics. You fight for land and we fight for a right to exist as a community within our own country. Our very identity is at risk and you wonder why fanatics exist. ENOSIS was the aim and partially it has been obtained. Total power is now the aim and the power sharing that was signed for by our very first ever president, is not being allowed to exist. The same power sharing that has been seen as the best thing for Cyprus by nearly every country in the world and every organisation. Those that have worked hard, as in the UN, have had enough of your arrogance and will put this right the only other way they can. That is to have to separate states and if you want to join in and have a possible loose federation then so be it but this thing is going to happen...Make no mistake about that.

I repeat that "ENOSIS" was not any inlegal or un-democratic demand- It was the will of the majority in the Island.

In line with the UN documents Papadopoulos is the official president of ROC.Tallat is just the elected spokeman of the inasion forces. Usually discussions should be between equal persons (in relation to their position) . It should be much more fair Tallat to discuss with the Chief of National guard than with the president of the ROC.

As for your but times with Gcs , have you ever thought the problems your side created to them by demanding them to refrain from decide for their own future and destiny? You had been spread around by Ottomans and afterwards you considered that you have all the right to decide for majority's affairs.

How many of you (TCS) are still in NC? 65000-75000? In a democratic state you could have no more than 5 representatives in the parliament , protecting your minorities ethnical/education and religion rights.

You became the main shareholders of the place using the power of Tukish arms. What you are not realising is that , furtunately, this certain power is slowly slowly loosing its effieciency in the modern politics and particularly in EU.

[Tim Drayton]

Thank you for your remembering me, Birkıbrıslı (note the undotted letter 'i' which certain parties would allege is only available on a special keyboard which Turks have exlusive access to - sorry to deflate these arguments but in fact you can set up windows to write in as many languages as you like, and you can switch from one to another at a click of the mouse), with your question:

Where is our friend TIM what's his name by the way???
I find his absence from this debate rather suspicious.

This is TIM what's his name, and although I have felt tempted to come in earlier, having been told by a resident of London to "keep your nose out", I decided that I was right in believing that, since the Cyprus problem can only be solved by Cypriots, foreigners should stay out.
Yes, since Cypriots have told me to stay away, I respect that, but on the other hand I have been invited to comment by a resident of Australia, so I will leave a few notes before I depart.
At the risk of "fueling any more fires", something which I have been requested to do by somebody who at least lives in Cyprus, I seriously wonder if by the same token persons of Cypriot decent who have chosen to make another country their permanent home have any more right than me to comment. I am a foreigner, but one who works and pays taxes to the government here, happens to love this country and its truly hospitable people and would love to see more nothing more an equitable settlement and the dismantling of the green line which scars this island. What happens here certainly impacts on me.
Yes, I lived in Turkey for a very long time and am very fluent in Turkish. This gives me certain insights into the way Cyprus is viewed from Turkey. Perhaps it makes me biased towards the Turkish position as some have suggested, although I am firmly opposed the Turkish military presence on this island (at least in excess of the numbers permitted under the agreements), and since in Turkey voicing this very opinion is an offence under the new Penal Code, I refuse to set foot on the soil of the Turkish Republic for as long as that particular article remains in force. So, if am biased towards the Turkish view, I am not aware of it. I strongly refute the claim that I am ignorant of the history of Cyprus, too. Since my arrival on this island I have read everything I can get my hands on on the subject, starting not from 1500 but with the first Neolithic settlements - I have also been to Choirokoitia to visit the remains of one such settlement. I wonder how many people who claim here to be interested in the history of Cyprus have done the same.
Of course, one piece of graffiti is the work of a mindless individual and, in itself, is not very important. My post was a kneejerk reaction after arriving home, having just witnessed these words which I personally found outrageous. In fact, nobody in ten pages of discussion has answered the basic question I posed in my post, but despite that I received a loud and clear answer. The few of you who understand this last point will enjoy a quiet chuckle. Those that don't will never understand anyway.
The reason that I referred to two well-documented massacres of innocent Turkish Cypriots was not because I am brainwashed by Turkish propaganda, but to show how disgusting this specific message is when viewed in a certain context. And by the way, I interpreted the message to mean "kill TCs", and other interpretations are possible. Believe me, I would be equally disgusted if I saw the words "Kill Greeks" written on a wall in north Cyprus, and may well have started a similar post in which I would have quoted a couple of well-documented massacres of innocent Greek Cypriot civilians with the aim of reinforcing my point.
Interestingly, though, as a frequent visitor to the occupied territories, I have never seen graffiti of this kind there. You never even see "TMT" scrawled on a wall, whereas you frequently see "ΕΟΚΑ" on walls here. Perhaps this provides some kind of insight into the different mentalities prevailing on both sides of the line. I seriously wonder, though, why if according to the discourse promoted by the Cyprus government EOKA-B was a "fascist organisation devoted to the overthrow of the legitimate government" which "staged a treacherous coup that opened the way for the occupation of one third of Cyprus", people here are quite happy to tolerate the presence of the slogan "EOKA-B" daubed inside a pedestrian underpass in the village of Erimi (close to the Buchaneer pub) - the said underpass was certainly built long after 1974. Does this not detract from the value of the memorials which were erected a couple of years ago to honour the memory of those who lost their lives while attempting to defend the Republic against against this illegal act? Or perhaps my petit bourgois British mentality attaches much more importance to such symbolic matters than they really merit.
I accept that the graffi I have drawn your attention to may be the work of provocators. No, I did not write it myself and since the words "Kill Turks" are interspersed with slogans written in Ελληνικα (shock, horror - he has his keyboard set up for Greek. What does that show?), a language that I cannot write properly, I claim "It wasn't me, guv". By the way θελω να μαθαινω Ελληνικα,but it takes time. However, one thing is for sure, the right-wing, chauvinist press in the so-called TRNC would have a field day if it got its hands on a photograph of what may seem to you like a childish prank. This is an aspect that appears to have escaped you. I was trying to use irony in my first post - note carefully the italics around "Motherland"- in an attempt to show how a message like this only serves to reinforce the arguments presented by the chauvinist segment of Turkish Cypriot society. I wonder how may GCs are aware that there are TCs who openly refer to the Turkish army as an "occupying force" and call for their removal. The daily "Afrika" does this through its columns every day. (Isn't it interesting to see the fresh input you can get from an intererested outsider who regularly reads the Turkish and Turkish Cypriot press?) And every peice of ammunition you hand to the chauvinists in the north harms the cause of those there who are trying to oppose, even if only in a small way, the Turkish occupation. Ever thought of that?
Anway, I promise never to darken your door again. Selamlar. Γεια σασ.

Then I ram my ovipositor down your throat, and lay my eggs in your chest! But I'm *not* an alien

Sorry, I promised to remain silent, but RE my original question:

Or do at least a number of you harbour the sentiment expressed in the words "kill Turks" painted on this wall?

I take it this answer means "Yes".

[oranos64]

TWO THINGS

WHY DONT YOU BACK THERE AND 2 ... WHY DONT YOU LIVE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BORDER ....

IT WONT BE LONG BEFORE THE LOCALS ...KNOW WHO YOU ARE ..THANKS FOR YOUR WEBSITE ..X

[Kifeas]

Our side we consider that manyl foreigners and many times also many so called "Cypriots" trying to find the reasons of the Cyprus problem and the possible solution make a basic mistake.

EPSILON, my very confused, messed up and fucked up friend, do you recognize Cyprus (RoC) as an independed and sovereign nation-state, yes or no?

If you do not, just like the Turks do, it means you are also a Turk, because there is no country in the world other than the Turks, which does not recognize Cyprus (RoC) as a nation-state! If you do not recognize Cyprus as a country, then please explain to us what the UN list as one of their member nations under the name of Cyprus, and what the EU has admitted as its member, again under the name of Cyprus! What have they admitted and recognize as Cyprus, a “hot, thin air?” A clout in the sky? Please explain!

If on the other hand you do recognized the existence of Cyprus as a nation-state, just like the UN and the EU do, as well as the rest of the world with the exception of only the Turks, then please explain to us what the citizens of this nation-state with the name Cyprus are called! Are they called Cypriots or are they “so-called Cypriots,” as you have made us? If we are “so-called Cypriots,” as you have claimed above, then also Cyprus as a nation-state is a “so-called nation-state,” (just like the “TRNC,”) which means that you do not recognize Cyprus and the RoC as such and therefore you are either a Turk or you have a very fucked up mind!

EPSILON, if I was so messed and fucked up like you, I would have committed suicide so that I rest my soul, instead of posting in the forums! It is never too late EPSILON! Do make the brave but right decision!

When Kifeas you will grow up you will be able to understand the difference of been Cypriot citizen under the impossed ROC state (if you remember this ROC created one night like the other one which was ready to be created by Annan plan) and my nationality which is Greek.

Therefore, I take it that you do not recognise the RoC, because it was an imposed state, even though this nation-state is a fully recognised one by the entire world and the UN, as an existing, independed and sovereign subject of international law, and even though now this nation-state entity is now a constituting member of the EU! I take it that you also do not recognise the UN and the EU for this matter, simply because they are constituted by at least one “non-existing” or a non-recognised by you entity, the RoC!

I used to think that schizophrenia is a Turkish thing, for they have precisely the above positions regarding the RoC, however, it now seems that schizophrenia is also a Greek thing!

Instead of telling me to grow up, why don’t you go and seek some specialised help to cure your schizophrenia!