Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz]

Yet another prime example of my 8.07 pm post today(above). Repeating the same old arguments over again - and if I could be bothered I'd give the usual GC responses - but I can't because it gets us nowhere.

Where as just repeating 'it gets us nowhere' gets us where Jerry ?

If you have an idea as to how we can get somewhere then suggest it. Otherwise your protestations just look to me like an attempt to ignore and or deny anything that does not fit your view of what the problem is. A strategy which indeed gets us nowhere and has got us nowhere for as long as there has been a Cypriot state.

[Piratis]

What was not fair or demicratic on Greeks of Cyprus to request Union with Greece? Nothing.

There was nothing wrong with you REQUESTING this as Greeks that lived in Cyprus rather than as the will of a unitary Cypriot people. What was wrong was trying to IMPOSE this Greek wish of a part of the Greek people on a different and seperate people for whom Cyprus was also their homeland , with no regard for their rights as a seperate (non Greek) people to self determination, using illegal violence and decpetion.

When you define yourself and your desires as those as of Greeks living in Cyprus and not as Cypriots that happen to have a Greek cultural background you loose the right to speak on behalf of all Cypriot people. When you seek /sought to impose these Greek desires (not Cypriot ones) on other Cypriots who are NOT Greek against their will and with no regard for their wishes, then you encourage and empower those non Greek Cypriots to resist your imposition.

What divided TC and GC was GC deciding that being Greek and forcing TC to be Greek against their will and the destruction of Cyprus as a nation and people was more important to them as Greeks than being Cypriot and finding a Cypriot vision of the future that was inclusive of all for whom Cyprus was their homeland not exclusive and that protected Cyprus as a nation and a untiary people.

You chose to be Greek above and before being Cypriot and in doing so you played a major and defining role in the destruction of Cyprus as a unitary nation AND people.

Hello again Erolz,

The Ottoman empire had spread Turks in all areas they occupied. Are you telling me that the Turks in Greece, Bulgaria etc or the remnants of not only the Ottoman, but also the British, French, Spanish etc colonialists have a separate right of self-determination in the areas they formerly ruled because a minority of them still lives there?? Sorry mate but your argument is totally ridiculous. Cypriots as a whole have a right of self determination, and your minority didn't have a separate one. The way your minority was formed in Cyprus is similar to 10s or even 100s of other minorities that exist in the world, so stop acting as if you have more rights than everybody else. If you thought that you could force apartheid in Cyprus the way the colonialists forced it in South Africa you should forget about it.

Who IMPOSED their will on Cyprus were the Turks, who ruled this island for 300+ years against the will of the Cypriots. Allowing the Cypriots (you included) to democratically take a decision for their own island was the right thing, yet for once again you IMPOSED your will on us via undemocratic and forceful means because you didn't like the democratic choice of Cypriots. That was the crime. If your minority had not collaborated with the colonialists and had finally shown some respect to the democratic wishes of the Cypriot people, then no conflict would happen. Yet instead of acting as part of the Cypriot people and respecting the wish of the majority, you acted as our Ottoman rulers and IMPOSED on us your will.

[erolz]

Cypriots as a whole have a right of self determination, and your minority didn't have a separate one.

When you chose to be Greek rather than Cypriot (and sought the destruction of the Cypriot state, nation and people) you lost the right to speak for a single Cypriot people and in the process you CHOSE to sperate Cypriots into two seperate people. Having yourself made this speration by your own choices, you then argue that those you chose to seperate from yoursleves have no rights to determine their own futures in the face of your desires, which just shows why we have a Cyprus problem and do not have a unitary Cypriot nation or people.

[Piratis]

Cypriots as a whole have a right of self determination, and your minority didn't have a separate one.

When you chose to be Greek rather than Cypriot (and sought the destruction of the Cypriot state, nation and people) you lost the right to speak for a single Cypriot people and in the process you CHOSE to sperate Cypriots into two seperate people. Having yourself made this speration by your own choices, you then argue that those you chose to seperate from yoursleves have no rights to determine their own futures in the face of your desires, which just shows why we have a Cyprus problem and do not have a unitary Cypriot nation or people.

The Greek nation, part of which was Cyprus, was under the Ottomans and other rulers for centuries. Cyprus, just like Crete, Rodos, Athens and all the other Greek territories had every right to be liberated, and every right to join together to form a united state. Your rule over Cyprus was over, and beyond that you didn't have any separate self-determination rights in Cyprus, just like you didn't have separate self determination rights in Crete, Rodos, Athens, Bulgaria etc.

The fact is that you collaborated with the colonialists to IMPOSE on Cypriots for once more your will, and that is what caused the conflict between us.

[miltiades]

What was not fair or demicratic on Greeks of Cyprus to request Union with Greece? Nothing.

There was nothing wrong with you REQUESTING this as Greeks that lived in Cyprus rather than as the will of a unitary Cypriot people. What was wrong was trying to IMPOSE this Greek wish of a part of the Greek people on a different and seperate people for whom Cyprus was also their homeland , with no regard for their rights as a seperate (non Greek) people to self determination, using illegal violence and decpetion.

When you define yourself and your desires as those as of Greeks living in Cyprus and not as Cypriots that happen to have a Greek cultural background you loose the right to speak on behalf of all Cypriot people. When you seek /sought to impose these Greek desires (not Cypriot ones) on other Cypriots who are NOT Greek against their will and with no regard for their wishes, then you encourage and empower those non Greek Cypriots to resist your imposition.

What divided TC and GC was GC deciding that being Greek and forcing TC to be Greek against their will and the destruction of Cyprus as a nation and people was more important to them as Greeks than being Cypriot and finding a Cypriot vision of the future that was inclusive of all for whom Cyprus was their homeland not exclusive and that protected Cyprus as a nation and a untiary people.

You chose to be Greek above and before being Cypriot and in doing so you played a major and defining role in the destruction of Cyprus as a unitary nation AND people.

He is of course wrongly presuming that all G/Cs share his views.We are not as he says "so called Cypriots ", but what the entire world sees us
as and what our Cypriot ID , A LEGAL DOCUMENT THE WORLD OVER , describes our identity . Cypriot NOT GREEK CYPRIOT .

[Piratis]

The Turkish minority in Bulgaria was created long before the one in Cyprus. Do you think they should have asked the Turks separately whether Bulgaria can join the EU or not?

If some countries in Africa decide to join together and scrub the borders that were created for them by the colonialists, do you think the whites that live there have the right to call Brittan or France to intervene because the "Namibians (or any other) have no right to act as Africans"?

We accept you as equal Cypriot, regardless of what happened in the past. But trying to tell us what is right and what is not right to be, or trying to impose your will by force against the democratically expressed will of Cypriots is NOT your right.

[erolz]

The Greek nation, part of which was Cyprus, was under the Ottomans and other rulers for centuries.

There was no such thing as a Greek nation before 1821 in any modern legal sense. There was a Greek people and you have every right to consider yourself part of that people. What you do not have a right to do is both claim you are part of the Greek people and that you can speak (alone) for a single unitary Cypriot people.

[Kifeas]

Our side we consider that manyl foreigners and many times also many so called "Cypriots" trying to find the reasons of the Cyprus problem and the possible solution make a basic mistake.

EPSILON, my very confused, messed up and fucked up friend, do you recognize Cyprus (RoC) as an independed and sovereign nation-state, yes or no?

If you do not, just like the Turks do, it means you are also a Turk, because there is no country in the world other than the Turks, which does not recognize Cyprus (RoC) as a nation-state! If you do not recognize Cyprus as a country, then please explain to us what the UN list as one of their member nations under the name of Cyprus, and what the EU has admitted as its member, again under the name of Cyprus! What have they admitted and recognize as Cyprus, a “hot, thin air?” A clout in the sky? Please explain!

If on the other hand you do recognized the existence of Cyprus as a nation-state, just like the UN and the EU do, as well as the rest of the world with the exception of only the Turks, then please explain to us what the citizens of this nation-state with the name Cyprus are called! Are they called Cypriots or are they “so-called Cypriots,” as you have made us? If we are “so-called Cypriots,” as you have claimed above, then also Cyprus as a nation-state is a “so-called nation-state,” (just like the “TRNC,”) which means that you do not recognize Cyprus and the RoC as such and therefore you are either a Turk or you have a very fucked up mind!

EPSILON, if I was so messed and fucked up like you, I would have committed suicide so that I rest my soul, instead of posting in the forums! It is never too late EPSILON! Do make the brave but right decision!

[Bananiot]

EPSILON had also this to say:

Unfortunately the only solution which may be can secure somehow the future of Greeks in Cyprus became to be the final division of the Island or, in the best case, the today's situation.

He sounds like Papadopoulos to me! There are many people now that subscribe to the above theory and they are not simply confused. They are bloody dangerous!

[Kifeas]

EPSILON had also this to say:

Unfortunately the only solution which may be can secure somehow the future of Greeks in Cyprus became to be the final division of the Island or, in the best case, the today's situation.

He sounds like Papadopoulos to me! There are many people now that subscribe to the above theory and they are not simply confused. They are bloody dangerous!

Nothing to worry about! To any schizophrenic he would have sounded like Papadopoulos!