Cyprus-Forum.com

[Murataga]

Our Euro coins also say "Kibris" on them I think EU decided about EU official languages not us. Maybe EU didn't care much to have Turkish

The decision on offical languages was made between and agreed by both the RoC and the EU commission during the RoC's accession process. The RoC submitted only Greek as the offical langauge of the RoC, despite the consitutional contradictions in this and the EU comission "agreed there was no point in undertaking the huge cost of introducing a language which would not be used unless a settlement was reached."

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.ph ... &archive=1

maybe we should have listed the invasion anniversary as one of our holidays as well?

When all arguments fail revert to the all encompassing 'invasion'. at this rate ....no wonder we are getting nowhere!!

Hey Deniz, that's a bit strong coming from you, every post you make says:- Location: London, Ethnically Cleansed from Anglisidhes since 1963

I was expecting to view an interesting discussion on the subject and Hey Presto. Maybe it is a reminder that there were refugees prior to 1974.

Regards
DA

You can have a Turkish Cypriot president for what i care AFTER the solution...until then the Republic entered the union DESPITE its problems stemming from the invasion and someone has the cheek to ask for Turkish to be listed as an official language NOW while our homes are held by its troops? Would you like Sieftalia with your souvlakia?

DESPITE problems stemming from the invasion ?! How magnificently portraying the perversion of a common GC on the street ... You didn`t seem to "stem" from any problems while ethnically cleansing the TCs into the enclaves, or murdering them for refusing ENOSIS, or ousting them from the government, or ambargoing them even from the most fundamental medical supplies. But apparently you "stemmed" when they received some help against your illlegalities and managed to secure a zone in Cyprus which allowed them to get out from the enclaves that you sealed them in to like animals. How convenient...

And it matters very little that I even highlight these to you because (1) you will never ever accept them and concur that the problem is not 1974 but 1963 (2) even if you do what you expresss above is probably the voice of the 90% (if not more) of the of the GC people`s mindset that is going to eventually vote for a solution Plan in a referandum.

With the famous words of David Ben-Gurion: there is a gulf and nothing can bridge it, nothing.

[Jerry]

Our Euro coins also say "Kibris" on them I think EU decided about EU official languages not us. Maybe EU didn't care much to have Turkish

The decision on offical languages was made between and agreed by both the RoC and the EU commission during the RoC's accession process. The RoC submitted only Greek as the offical langauge of the RoC, despite the consitutional contradictions in this and the EU comission "agreed there was no point in undertaking the huge cost of introducing a language which would not be used unless a settlement was reached."

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.ph ... &archive=1

maybe we should have listed the invasion anniversary as one of our holidays as well?

When all arguments fail revert to the all encompassing 'invasion'. at this rate ....no wonder we are getting nowhere!!

Hey Deniz, that's a bit strong coming from you, every post you make says:- Location: London, Ethnically Cleansed from Anglisidhes since 1963

I was expecting to view an interesting discussion on the subject and Hey Presto. Maybe it is a reminder that there were refugees prior to 1974.

Regards
DA

You can have a Turkish Cypriot president for what i care AFTER the solution...until then the Republic entered the union DESPITE its problems stemming from the invasion and someone has the cheek to ask for Turkish to be listed as an official language NOW while our homes are held by its troops? Would you like Sieftalia with your souvlakia?

Still no mention of before 1974...

How far do you want to go back Zan?

As far as the first republic ever formed on the island Jerry. The point when we had the chance to make a go of it. I do hope you are not going to start the rubbish of thousands of years ago. Just those still living will do.

Zan I don't need to go back thousands of years, less than five from the formation of the first republic will do. So lets start the mud slinging shall we. Below are extracts from "Britain's Small Wars" Do you honestly believe we had a chance to make a go of it after incidents like these?
No doubt you will find "ammunition" on the site to prove your "case"

There is no doubt that torture of suspects was endemic. A certain amount of casual brutality against the 'enemy' by soldiers is inescapable, but some units, as a matter of routine, placed metal buckets on the heads of their prisoners and banged them with rifle barrels until he or she confessed. The Turkish Special Branch, with whom my unit worked, was something else. Its officers were filled with a profound hatred of anything Greek and quite ready to frame suspects
To prevent this, each team contained a Greek-speaking British NCO to ensure 'fair play'. These NCOs were generally National Servicemen, who had studied classical Greek and thus the sort of people temperamentally unsuited to undertake work of this nature. A good friend of mine was an 'umpire' of a team that killed a 17-year-old youth under questiod was promptly posted to the other end of the island. We never met up again

The increasing intercommunal strife effectively became a civil war between the Greeks and Turks and it reached its zenith in August1958. That month, late one night, I was in the Larnaca police station and saw a crowd of policemen gathered round a car (a Ford Consul) with dark liquid leaking from under its doors. We went to have a look and promptly wished we hadn't. The liquid was blood, coming from the remains of three Greek Cypriots who had been caught by Turks. The Turks had hacked them to pieces, cutting off their penises and stuffing them in their mouths in the course of the frenzied attack. Apparently this was part of some religious rite to prevent the victims entering heaven. I hope God was pleased.

In Larnaca, while I was there, several deaths were labelled as 'intercommunal acts', although they bore all the hallmarks of privately motivated murder. It was automatically assumed that if a Greek was killed, the Turks were responsible and vice versa. The police were too stretched to mount full-scale murder enquiries. It was easier and quicker to list these killings as 'political'. A morally grey triangle develops where security forces, 'freedom fighters' and common criminals interface. It becomes an area for study by social historians and political scientists, rather than soldiers.

It would be dishonest for us to gloss over the fact that torture was used extensively in Cyprus to extract information from suspected terrorists or their sympathisers. It was an open secret and very well known to those of us who served there during the EOKA conflict. Interrogations were often carried out by the Special Branch of the Cyprus police, largely made up from the Turkish community, but with British officers in charge. The Turks had a vested interest in obtaining 'confessions' as did their superiors, who often allowed their teams to carry out their duties with great 'enthusiasm'

[zan]

Our Euro coins also say "Kibris" on them I think EU decided about EU official languages not us. Maybe EU didn't care much to have Turkish

The decision on offical languages was made between and agreed by both the RoC and the EU commission during the RoC's accession process. The RoC submitted only Greek as the offical langauge of the RoC, despite the consitutional contradictions in this and the EU comission "agreed there was no point in undertaking the huge cost of introducing a language which would not be used unless a settlement was reached."

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.ph ... &archive=1

maybe we should have listed the invasion anniversary as one of our holidays as well?

When all arguments fail revert to the all encompassing 'invasion'. at this rate ....no wonder we are getting nowhere!!

Hey Deniz, that's a bit strong coming from you, every post you make says:- Location: London, Ethnically Cleansed from Anglisidhes since 1963

I was expecting to view an interesting discussion on the subject and Hey Presto. Maybe it is a reminder that there were refugees prior to 1974.

Regards
DA

You can have a Turkish Cypriot president for what i care AFTER the solution...until then the Republic entered the union DESPITE its problems stemming from the invasion and someone has the cheek to ask for Turkish to be listed as an official language NOW while our homes are held by its troops? Would you like Sieftalia with your souvlakia?

Still no mention of before 1974...

How far do you want to go back Zan?

As far as the first republic ever formed on the island Jerry. The point when we had the chance to make a go of it. I do hope you are not going to start the rubbish of thousands of years ago. Just those still living will do.

Zan I don't need to go back thousands of years, less than five from the formation of the first republic will do. So lets start the mud slinging shall we. Below are extracts from "Britain's Small Wars" Do you honestly believe we had a chance to make a go of it after incidents like these?
No doubt you will find "ammunition" on the site to prove your "case"

There is no doubt that torture of suspects was endemic. A certain amount of casual brutality against the 'enemy' by soldiers is inescapable, but some units, as a matter of routine, placed metal buckets on the heads of their prisoners and banged them with rifle barrels until he or she confessed. The Turkish Special Branch, with whom my unit worked, was something else. Its officers were filled with a profound hatred of anything Greek and quite ready to frame suspects
To prevent this, each team contained a Greek-speaking British NCO to ensure 'fair play'. These NCOs were generally National Servicemen, who had studied classical Greek and thus the sort of people temperamentally unsuited to undertake work of this nature. A good friend of mine was an 'umpire' of a team that killed a 17-year-old youth under questiod was promptly posted to the other end of the island. We never met up again

The increasing intercommunal strife effectively became a civil war between the Greeks and Turks and it reached its zenith in August1958. That month, late one night, I was in the Larnaca police station and saw a crowd of policemen gathered round a car (a Ford Consul) with dark liquid leaking from under its doors. We went to have a look and promptly wished we hadn't. The liquid was blood, coming from the remains of three Greek Cypriots who had been caught by Turks. The Turks had hacked them to pieces, cutting off their penises and stuffing them in their mouths in the course of the frenzied attack. Apparently this was part of some religious rite to prevent the victims entering heaven. I hope God was pleased.

In Larnaca, while I was there, several deaths were labelled as 'intercommunal acts', although they bore all the hallmarks of privately motivated murder. It was automatically assumed that if a Greek was killed, the Turks were responsible and vice versa. The police were too stretched to mount full-scale murder enquiries. It was easier and quicker to list these killings as 'political'. A morally grey triangle develops where security forces, 'freedom fighters' and common criminals interface. It becomes an area for study by social historians and political scientists, rather than soldiers.

It would be dishonest for us to gloss over the fact that torture was used extensively in Cyprus to extract information from suspected terrorists or their sympathisers. It was an open secret and very well known to those of us who served there during the EOKA conflict. Interrogations were often carried out by the Special Branch of the Cyprus police, largely made up from the Turkish community, but with British officers in charge. The Turks had a vested interest in obtaining 'confessions' as did their superiors, who often allowed their teams to carry out their duties with great 'enthusiasm'

Jerry there is to be no mud slinging as you described it. I, unlike some on here will not try to cover up all that went on in Cyprus. Those things went on...OK! Do you think that if Makarios wanted to then all that could have been left behind us and we could have made a go of it in our new republic. Do you think that if Makarios had not pursued the ENOSIS route with such venom then all that could have been overcome. We would have been Cypriots within a Cypriot republic and we could have made the changes we needed with trust growing day by day. He had the whole island in his hands and now you are trying to justify his actions. Come on!!! That war can go on forever....In that war we are justified in the peace process and you should except that...

[Jerry]

Zan Wrote:- Jerry there is to be no mud slinging as you described it. I, unlike some on here will not try to cover up all that went on in Cyprus. Those things went on...OK! Do you think that if Makarios wanted to then all that could have been left behind us and we could have made a go of it in our new republic. Do you think that if Makarios had not pursued the ENOSIS route with such venom then all that could have been overcome. We would have been Cypriots within a Cypriot republic and we could have made the changes we needed with trust growing day by day. He had the whole island in his hands and now you are trying to justify his actions. Come on!!! That war can go on forever....In that war we are justified in the peace process and you should except that...

I 'm not trying to justify anything. I'm saying after these actions of Turkish Cypriots "in authority" how on earth do you expect GCs, who must have been aware of them, to join and trust them in a government in which they had been given disproportionate powers. Those powers being seen as a reward for their "help" in the preceding years.

You use the same arguments yourselves, you say "how can we trust those who treated us so badly after 1963". Well many Greek Cypriots thought the same way after independence and even Makarios would not have been able to persuade them otherwise.

And don't give us that ENOSIS crap - after 1960 the call for Takism was even stronger, is all you had to do was keep provoking the GCs and then cry "foul"

[zan]

Zan Wrote:- Jerry there is to be no mud slinging as you described it. I, unlike some on here will not try to cover up all that went on in Cyprus. Those things went on...OK! Do you think that if Makarios wanted to then all that could have been left behind us and we could have made a go of it in our new republic. Do you think that if Makarios had not pursued the ENOSIS route with such venom then all that could have been overcome. We would have been Cypriots within a Cypriot republic and we could have made the changes we needed with trust growing day by day. He had the whole island in his hands and now you are trying to justify his actions. Come on!!! That war can go on forever....In that war we are justified in the peace process and you should except that...

I 'm not trying to justify anything. I'm saying after these actions of Turkish Cypriots "in authority" how on earth do you expect GCs, who must have been aware of them, to join and trust them in a government in which they had been given disproportionate powers. Those powers being seen as a reward for their "help" in the preceding years.

You use the same arguments yourselves, you say "how can we trust those who treated us so badly after 1963". Well many Greek Cypriots thought the same way after independence and even Makarios would not have been able to persuade them otherwise.

And don't give us that ENOSIS crap - after 1960 the call for Takism was even stronger, is all you had to do was keep provoking the GCs and then cry "foul"

Well if you think that importing Greek soldiers and tanks was the right way to go about it then you should not be amazed at the outcome

[Jerry]

Zan Wrote:- Jerry there is to be no mud slinging as you described it. I, unlike some on here will not try to cover up all that went on in Cyprus. Those things went on...OK! Do you think that if Makarios wanted to then all that could have been left behind us and we could have made a go of it in our new republic. Do you think that if Makarios had not pursued the ENOSIS route with such venom then all that could have been overcome. We would have been Cypriots within a Cypriot republic and we could have made the changes we needed with trust growing day by day. He had the whole island in his hands and now you are trying to justify his actions. Come on!!! That war can go on forever....In that war we are justified in the peace process and you should except that...

I 'm not trying to justify anything. I'm saying after these actions of Turkish Cypriots "in authority" how on earth do you expect GCs, who must have been aware of them, to join and trust them in a government in which they had been given disproportionate powers. Those powers being seen as a reward for their "help" in the preceding years.

You use the same arguments yourselves, you say "how can we trust those who treated us so badly after 1963". Well many Greek Cypriots thought the same way after independence and even Makarios would not have been able to persuade them otherwise.

And don't give us that ENOSIS crap - after 1960 the call for Takism was even stronger, is all you had to do was keep provoking the GCs and then cry "foul"

Well if you think that importing Greek soldiers and tanks was the right way to go about it then you should not be amazed at the outcome

Your losing it Zan, thrashing around like a drowning man. Where did I say or try to justify anything about Greek soldiers?

[deminster]

The manner of his deportation was quite something; the Police arived; Brian who weighs some 32 stone, refused to travel to the airport in the police cruiser, chossing instead to use his Bentley. he then tore up the plane tickets given to him and booked Business Class!

He belonged to this Forum, some years ago.

Lana

I know Brian Semmens very well and am of the opinion that Lana was being kind to him when she said 32 stone the truth was more like 320 KG. Heard last from him in Portugal recently he had a stomach op in the hope of losing weight. The manner in which he was deported is factual but my opinion is that Cyprus Police do not deport people wrongly Mr.Semmens must have trodden on a lot of toes for this to have happened. Surely far more important issues lie ahead for this forum than Mr.Semmens and his problems with the RoC. The Reunification of Cyprus must be the Clarion call of all.
This is myfirst email to the forum and I must apologise if anything wrong has been purpotrated by my comments. I have read your ten point plan but find it totally lacking in depth and long term strategy that will ensure the peaceful co existance of all the Cypriot communities. If you are so kind allow me to write on another occassion when I have more time my opinion on the future of Cyprus and a peaceful lasting solution to this one of the most horrendous of all problems.
Yours
Deminster

[Kikapu]

The manner of his deportation was quite something; the Police arived; Brian who weighs some 32 stone, refused to travel to the airport in the police cruiser, chossing instead to use his Bentley. he then tore up the plane tickets given to him and booked Business Class!

He belonged to this Forum, some years ago.

Lana

I know Brian Semmens very well and am of the opinion that Lana was being kind to him when she said 32 stone the truth was more like 320 KG. Heard last from him in Portugal recently he had a stomach op in the hope of losing weight. The manner in which he was deported is factual but my opinion is that Cyprus Police do not deport people wrongly Mr.Semmens must have trodden on a lot of toes for this to have happened. Surely far more important issues lie ahead for this forum than Mr.Semmens and his problems with the RoC. The Reunification of Cyprus must be the Clarion call of all.
This is myfirst email to the forum and I must apologise if anything wrong has been purpotrated by my comments. I have read your ten point plan but find it totally lacking in depth and long term strategy that will ensure the peaceful co existance of all the Cypriot communities. If you are so kind allow me to write on another occassion when I have more time my opinion on the future of Cyprus and a peaceful lasting solution to this one of the most horrendous of all problems.
Yours
Deminster

Welcome to the forum Deminster.

Which " I have read your ten point plan but find it totally lacking in depth and long term strategy that will ensure the peaceful co existance of all the Cypriot communities" are you talking about.

Thanks.

[deminster]

Hi there to all.
The Ten point plan that appears on the first page of the forum website that in my opinion and it is an opinion that I am entitled to have, is just a rehash of old seperatist ideas. The core issue in this forum and any attempt at symfiliosis is going to go by the wayside if we attempt to keep the communities apart. Reunification means just that not only the land but the spiritand the mind of all the people. We want a free open society where NOBODY is going to be persecuted for whatever reason, If I want to work as a Baker,printer lawyer etc I am entitled to do so nobody should be able to determine for me,further all jobs must be offered to those best educated for that position and not because someone has a friend who wants to be elected for President or MP or local concillor and so they offer jobs for votes. They offer jobs to people who have no Uni education probably just finished high school no wonder the Government machinery of the RoC is in such a state the Officers by and large have never heard of Human Rights they have not fully understood the meaning of the EU charter they signed not so long ago. I am in the process of finishing the piece that I am writing for the forum that goes in depth my opinion as to the goals for a Free United Cyprus.
DEMINSTER