Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

.... expansionist desires.

I personally have this really bizarre way of measuring how expansionist a state is. My strange an incomprehensible method for measuring how expansionist a state is would be to measure in sq km how much it HAS expanded since it's founding as a state. Of course such a stupid way of measuring how expansionist a state is must be total nonsense, for it might actually show Greece as having been MORE expansionist than Turkey or in fact more expansionist than ANY modern nation state in the history of modern nation states. So clearly measuring now expansionist a state is by measuring how much it has expanded must be idiocy of a grand scale.

you can compare Greece's expansionism on independence in the same light as India's from the English under Ghandi. A gradual removal of colonial troops from the country they held by force.

[halil]

The Megali Idea (Greek: Μεγάλη Ιδέα, lit. "Great Idea") was an irredentist concept of Greek nationalism expressing the goal of establishing a Greek state that would encompass all ethnic Greeks. Megali Idea implied the goal of reestablishing a Greek state as ancient geographer Strabo wrote, with a Greek world extending west from Sicily, to Mikra Asia (Asia Minor) and Euxenus Pontus (Black Sea) to the east, and from Thrace, Macedonia and Epirus, north, to Crete and Cyprus to the south. Greek populations still lived in those territories in the beginning of 20th century.
After the achievement of Greek independence in 1821, the Megali idea played a major role in Greek politics. Between two-thirds and three-quarters of the Greek people remained outside the borders of the limited Greece permitted by the Great Powers, who had no intention for a larger Greek state to replace the Ottoman Empire.
The Greek state emerging under John Capodistria after the Greek War of Independence left out large groups of ethnic Greeks. The Great Idea encompassed a desire to bring these groups into the Greek state; specifically in the territories of Epirus, Thessaly, Macedonia, Thrace the Aegean Islands, Crete, Cyprus, parts of Anatolia, and the city of Constantinople/Istanbul, that would replace Athens as the capital.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megali_Idea

[zan]

.... expansionist desires.

I personally have this really bizarre way of measuring how expansionist a state is. My strange an incomprehensible method for measuring how expansionist a state is would be to measure in sq km how much it HAS expanded since it's founding as a state. Of course such a stupid way of measuring how expansionist a state is must be total nonsense, for it might actually show Greece as having been MORE expansionist than Turkey or in fact more expansionist than ANY modern nation state in the history of modern nation states. So clearly measuring now expansionist a state is by measuring how much it has expanded must be idiocy of a grand scale.

you can compare Greece's expansionism on independence in the same light as India's from the English under Ghandi. A gradual removal of colonial troops from the country they held by force.

Oh and how did they arrive at these places to seek independence in the first place. You are not going the Piratis "they settled" route I hope.....Alexander did a hell of a lot of "Settling".

[the_snake_and_the_crane]

Zan showing his lack of historical knowledge again. Alexander the Great was way after the Mycaenean, Achaen and Ionian settlements along the western coast of Asia Minor and the Black Sea.

Infact, Zan reminds me of that episode of Only Fools And Horses were Del Boy sets up a tour of 'Ethnic London' and claims that the area of Elephant And Castle in South London got its name because Richard the Lionheart set up his castle there and fought back the emperor Hadrian and his army of elephants.

Full of bullshit to try and con people.

[the_snake_and_the_crane]

I personally have this really bizarre way of measuring how expansionist a state is. My strange an incomprehensible method for measuring how expansionist a state is would be to measure in sq km how much it HAS expanded since it's founding as a state. Of course such a stupid way of measuring how expansionist a state is must be total nonsense, for it might actually show Greece as having been MORE expansionist than Turkey or in fact more expansionist than ANY modern nation state in the history of modern nation states. So clearly measuring now expansionist a state is by measuring how much it has expanded must be idiocy of a grand scale.

Yeah, this guy would want Greece to be the size and state it was at the first phase of its liberation of the Turkish empire. Totally disregarding the other Greek lands under foreign rule. There difference between Greece and Turkey is that Greece wanted to liberate Greek lands under foreign rule while Turkey just likes to steal lands from its neighbours.

[zan]

Two posts as useless as each other....How did they become Greek lands Rasta?????

What happened to the indigenous people dread?

[Get Real!]

Infact, Zan reminds me of that episode of Only Fools And Horses were Del Boy sets up a tour of 'Ethnic London' and claims that the area of Elephant And Castle in South London got its name because Richard the Lionheart set up his castle there and fought back the emperor Hadrian and his army of elephants.

[the_snake_and_the_crane]

Two posts as useless as each other....How did they become Greek lands Rasta?????

What happened to the indigenous people dread?

Zan, are you related to that Turkish British Naional Party guy? You do like to ridicule Black culture dont you, even in a Cypriot web forum.

Anyway...

Much of the western coast of Asia Minor, like Cyprus, was uninhabited when the Greeks settled there. They did not invade or steal anyones land. There is, to my knowledge (which means defenetly to your knowledge Zan...but im sure you'll start Googling) no recorded history that when Greeks from the mainland settled in those areas, after the period of the Trojan war or the invasion of the Thebian tribes from the north of Greece, that they encountered any conflict or pushed out any other tribes. Although, we do know the Philistines (who founded Palaestine) were a Greek tribe who did invade the area that we now know as Palaestine.

Zan you really do make an arse of yourself when it comes to history dont you. Your a glutton for learning the hard way after you embarrass yourself.

[erolz]

Yeah, this guy would want Greece to be the size and state it was at the first phase of its liberation of the Turkish empire. Totally disregarding the other Greek lands under foreign rule. There difference between Greece and Turkey is that Greece wanted to liberate Greek lands under foreign rule while Turkey just likes to steal lands from its neighbours.

If you want to talk about how some states (Greece) have a right to expand and others do not (Turkey) or generally rant that Greeks are good and Turks are bad, then fine talk about that, but that is not the discussion I am having. I am talking about how one can sensibly measure how expansionist as state. The only sensible measure of that, as opposed to just rehtoric, is how much a given state HAS expanded. On this measure one can say that Greece is the most expansionist modern state in the history of modern states to date as a mere matter of fact. If such expansion of the Greek state is 'right or wrong or in between' does not change the previous statement or its accuracy. As far as expansion of states goes and thus how expansionist they might accurately be labled , Greece is a clear world leader.

[Kifeas]

.... expansionist desires.

I personally have this really bizarre way of measuring how expansionist a state is. My strange an incomprehensible method for measuring how expansionist a state is would be to measure in sq km how much it HAS expanded since it's founding as a state. Of course such a stupid way of measuring how expansionist a state is must be total nonsense, for it might actually show Greece as having been MORE expansionist than Turkey or in fact more expansionist than ANY modern nation state in the history of modern nation states. So clearly measuring now expansionist a state is by measuring how much it has expanded must be idiocy of a grand scale.

Indeed you are right in admitting that trying to prove Greece's "expansionist" nature by using the yard stick you have provided, "must be idiocy of a grand scale," however, do you also know why it is such a "total nonsense?"