Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

You are just ranting now Piratis.

I was just trying to explain that History is a chain of events and everything is related. You can not just take your own version of a mere decade out of the 500 years we have lived together on this island, and based on that make the erroneous claim that more or less the GCs are the evils that can not be trusted, while TCs are the innocent victims, and for this reason in Cyprus we should apply a system which has nothing to do with the democratic systems that exist in all other democratic countries (many of which are multi-ethnic, and with conflicts in the past even worsts than ours)

Sorry, but when I hear claims like that when in fact Greek Cypriots have been the victims of foreign invasions and foreign rulers for the 99% of our history, then I can't just sit there and listen to you to paint us in such a negative way, while you totally forget the massive suffering you have caused to us.

The democratic principles and those of human rights should be accepted by everybody if we will finally one day have a normal country. If we are looking into history for excuses in order to maintain the division then obviously there is no way that the Cyprus problem will ever be solved by peaceful means.

It certainly is and that chain has a link in it with us having 37% of Cyprus. Relate that. You will not stop at anything to trick your way into getting the whole of Cyprus. You have lied about the missing, you have lied about the attempted genocide, you have lied about the number of refugees and you have lied about the number of killed by Turkey. There is only one thing you are after and that is us off the island all together so just cut the crap and say so. Be a man for once in your life and squirming like a worm.

[Piratis]

Erolz,

Of course the conflict between GCs and TCs existed long before the British. We were under Turkish oppressive rule for 300+ years and the Turks butchered several 1000s of Greek Cypriots during that time. I didn't mean that the conflict between GCs and TCs started by the British! That conflict started much earlier, like this:

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

During the British rule the British had the chance to end the discrimination between "Christians" and Turks that the Ottomans imposed in Cyprus. However when Greek Cypriots revolted against the British, the British used the Turkish Cypriots as policemen against our fighters and turned Turkish Cypriots against us. Of course all you needed was the initial spark and promises that you will be given half of Cyprus, from then on you did the rest by yourselves.

Union with Greece has been our right, and it was a crime that it was denied to us. Union with Greece would involve no human or other violation against TCs. I suppose for you it was fine when Cyprus was under Ottoman rule against the will of the Cypriots, but when Cypriots wanted to be part of Greece that was not OK? According to the UN resolution about decolonization "integration into an independent State" was one of the three legitimate options for a territory being decolonized, if this is what the people of the territory democratically choose.
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

However we have made the compromise that Cyprus will not be united with Greece (even if it was in fact our right). And if that is what bothers you then this one point could be one where you could have a veto power. So if we take that point out of the question, would you now accept democracy for Cyprus as it exists in all other democratic countries? (thats a rhetoric question of course, since I know already very well what partitionists want, and that is nothing less than keeping the north part of our country for themselves and Turkifying it)

[Piratis]

You are just ranting now Piratis.

I was just trying to explain that History is a chain of events and everything is related. You can not just take your own version of a mere decade out of the 500 years we have lived together on this island, and based on that make the erroneous claim that more or less the GCs are the evils that can not be trusted, while TCs are the innocent victims, and for this reason in Cyprus we should apply a system which has nothing to do with the democratic systems that exist in all other democratic countries (many of which are multi-ethnic, and with conflicts in the past even worsts than ours)

Sorry, but when I hear claims like that when in fact Greek Cypriots have been the victims of foreign invasions and foreign rulers for the 99% of our history, then I can't just sit there and listen to you to paint us in such a negative way, while you totally forget the massive suffering you have caused to us.

The democratic principles and those of human rights should be accepted by everybody if we will finally one day have a normal country. If we are looking into history for excuses in order to maintain the division then obviously there is no way that the Cyprus problem will ever be solved by peaceful means.

It certainly is and that chain has a link in it with us having 37% of Cyprus. Relate that. You will not stop at anything to trick your way into getting the whole of Cyprus. You have lied about the missing, you have lied about the attempted genocide, you have lied about the number of refugees and you have lied about the number of killed by Turkey. There is only one thing you are after and that is us off the island all together so just cut the crap and say so. Be a man for once in your life and squirming like a worm.

I have never lied. You disputed the numbers I gave without providing your "true" numbers. And in fact the only thing you disputed was the level of your barbarian acts, as if it makes much difference if you ethnically cleansed 200.000 or 180.000, or if you killed 6000 or 5000. The fact is that you have committed massive atrocities against us. In fact your suffering that you keep crying about and trying to use it as an excuse for yet more barbarian illegal acts against us, is a drop in the ocean compared to the suffering you have caused to us.

What I want for Cyprus is legality and human rights for all Cypriots, and I am even ready to forgive you in order to achieve this, even though you apparently want to fuel as much hate as possible between us in order to maintain the conflict and the division.

[zan]

Erolz,

Of course the conflict between GCs and TCs existed long before the British. We were under Turkish oppressive rule for 300+ years and the Turks butchered several 1000s of Greek Cypriots during that time. I didn't mean that the conflict between GCs and TCs started by the British! That conflict started much earlier, like this:

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

During the British rule the British had the chance to end the discrimination between "Christians" and Turks that the Ottomans imposed in Cyprus. However when Greek Cypriots revolted against the British, the British used the Turkish Cypriots as policemen against our fighters and turned Turkish Cypriots against us. Of course all you needed was the initial spark and promises that you will be given half of Cyprus, from then on you did the rest by yourselves.

Union with Greece has been our right, and it was a crime that it was denied to us. Union with Greece would involve no human or other violation against TCs. I suppose for you it was fine when Cyprus was under Ottoman rule against the will of the Cypriots, but when Cypriots wanted to be part of Greece that was not OK? According to the UN resolution about decolonization "integration into an independent State" was one of the three legitimate options for a territory being decolonized, if this is what the people of the territory democratically choose.
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

However we have made the compromise that Cyprus will not be united with Greece (even if it was in fact our right). And if that is what bothers you then this one point could be one where you could have a veto power. So if we take that point out of the question, would you now accept democracy for Cyprus as it exists in all other democratic countries? (thats a rhetoric question of course, since I know already very well what partitionists want, and that is nothing less than keeping the north part of our country for themselves and Turkifying it)

Stop your crocodile tears for centuries old conflicts and address the issue since the republic was formed. The first republic ever formed for Cypriots. The rest is just crap and you know it. It was never your right to have ENOSIS because you never owned the island throughout its history. It would have been your right after the first republic was formed if it had been in the constitution and it was not. It was never your right and it never will be. END OF!!!!

[Piratis]

It was our right as can be seen from the UN resolution about decolonization I gave above. It seems you still have the middle age belief that who "owns" a territory are not the people of the territory but the foreign rulers that occupy it by means of brute force. Cyprus has always been ours, rulers come and go.

[zan]

It was our right as can be seen from the UN resolution about decolonization I gave above. It seems you still have the middle age belief that who "owns" a territory are not the people of the territory but the foreign rulers that occupy it by means of brute force. Cyprus has always been ours, rulers come and go.

The aspirations of the peoples of the Territories to achieve self-determination, and the international community's perception that United Nations Charter principles were being too slowly applied, led to the United Nations General Assembly's proclamation on 14 December 1960 of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples - resolution 1514 (XV).

The Declaration states that "the subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the United Nations Charter, and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and cooperation, and that steps should be taken to transfer, unconditionally, all powers to the Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories so that they might enjoy complete freedom and independence".

Also in 1960, the Assembly approved resolution 1541 (XV), defining free association with an independent State, integration into an independent State, or independence as the three legitimate options of full self-government.

In 1962, the Assembly established a special committee, now known as the Special Committee of 24 on Decolonization, to examine the application of the Declaration and to make recommendations on its implementation.


Could that also apply to Greek rule by any chance.

[Piratis]

Could that also apply to Greek rule by any chance.

Not if that was the democratic choice of Cypriots by exercising their legitimate right for "integration into an independent State".

[Kristianikos]

haha, hmm.. for me it is hard.. but living in England i have always stated 'cypriot' when asked.

My father is German, Mother Cypriot.

I was born in Greece and live in the UK.

Could things get anymore confusing for me

Try this, Mother 3/4 Greek, I/4, German.
Farther 100% native, undeniable Cypriot.
Born on Cyprus.
Living in U.K., Greece, France and Cyprus.

But, as far as I can go back no Bloody Turks. Can't be all bad.

I have a very small amount of turkish in me, and i am not ashamed of it.

My giagia's giagia was infact a turkish cypriot.

[zan]

Could that also apply to Greek rule by any chance.

Not if that was the democratic choice of Cypriots by exercising their legitimate right for "integration into an independent State".

Before the constitution that right did not exist and after...Well it did not exist without the TC vote. As you said.. al Cypriots That was the constitution. End of!

[Piratis]

That resolution was for territories who were under colonial rule. Of course we had rights