Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

It was once the TCs who felt threatened by going to beaches populated by GCs where they were made to feel uncomfortale or second class citizens, where they stopped their children from speaking Turkish just in case a GC would find out and treat them badly....Now the table has turned and GCs feel uncomfortable visiting beaches in the north not in the sense that they are threatned by TCs for their safety as we were back then but its that they are now the odd ones out and have to either talk Turkish or English like we would have to do in a united Cyprus. So maybe allowing all Cypriots the choice to whether move south or north would be the best step forward rather than force this uneasiness between the communites.

It must be something that you read on PAGE 21 .................................................................AGAIN.

No kikapu that’s one of the MANY AGENDA items that have to be repeated each year by about the same time, in various versions. In this version she added the GCs have to either speak Turkish or English. Look here:

Something interesting happened today while at the beach in Kyrenia. There was a crowded beach with local TCs, TCs living in the UK on holiday and foreigners also on holiday. In amongst all this fun in the sun I noticed a GC family also going into the sea speaking Greek, I watched them for a while and noticed they were feeling a little uncomfortable to be viewed as foreigners. It reminded me of a time when we felt the same but there was of course a big difference we were not made welcome and even told not to speak Turkish by our family so that the GCs would not know we were TCs. There were beaches we could not use or felt comfortable going to as to the threat we would be under. We lived in fear and were discriminated against for being TCs.

I just wanted to ask the moderate GCs how they feel in a situation where now the shoe is on the other foot and the TCs are in charge in the north and they come to the beaches where Im certain the majority do not feal threatened but are like foreigners, do they understand how we felt back in the 1960s where the situation was not as relaxed as it is today?

We all know what VP's all about, and you have once again shown his true intentions with the above posts from him. No need to go any further about VP.

I remember before the 1963 conflicts going to the beach with the whole family. We were never restricted from speaking Turkish. Hell, for the kids, that's the only language we knew, so I don't know what VP is talking about.

Those were the great days Pyro. We would pile a lot of food into a large straw basket and take a bus to the beach from Kucuk Kaymakli. I have no idea which beach it was, but it was just great. Watermelon, hellim, olives, bread and few more things, and we were happy.

I was a lousy swimmer back then, and I'm a lousy swimmer now, and for a sailor, that's rather shameful.

I guess it is possible in the late 60's and early 70's that TC's kept a "low profile" because of the previous few years, but lets not start gloating now, that some GC's may feel uncomfortable talking Greek on some beaches in the North.

[Pyrpolizer]

If I could ever say which was the happiest day in my life I would say it was the day my Godmother (the woman who baptized me at the church and by tradition brings you presents) bought me a swim tube and then drove us to the beach. Seeing all that blue from a distance, I felt like I was flying.

I guess it was the same for many TC kids before 1963.

I really feel sorry for people like Deniz, BigOz, VP and others who were deprived that childhood joy for one reason or another.

And I am very glad you enjoyed your childhood at the beach dear Kikapu. I hope you did not have a father watching your sisters from talking to any other boys other than their brothers...

[bigOz]

But, just for the record, I do remember travelling to beaches in Kyrenia with my elder brother around 1969- 1972 when TCs started to move around the GC side unobstructed. However, I also remember we were actually not allowed on some of the beaches in Kyrenia because we were TCs and had to make our way to quieter beaches - I think the ones we went to with no problems were the 3 mile beach and "Basambo" to the East of town. But even as a young boy, I used to find it very humiliating to say the least - but was still grateful that we had access to the sea after not seeing one for more than 5 years!

BigOz certainly those were sad times and I don’t think anyone in his right mind would applaud those things that were indeed hapening and I feel very sorry about.

I would like to learn more details on how "you were not allowed". Nobody owned the beaches, even if a restaurant or hotel was built near the beach the beach itself was still public property and everyone could go there. So I understand you could go by the beach as everyone else. At what point and how you were not allowed? Please tell us more.

Btw we were also going to quiet beaches but for other reasons (very conservative father, in fact my mother never bathed was just taking off her shoes and stepping inside just to cool of her feet a bit… as for my sisters they could not even talk to a boy…)

However, this is the sort of behaviour many sensible people on both sides would want to get rid of. Therefore it does not mean that TCs should treat GCs attending beaches in the North any different to any TC living in there. Has any GC been prevented from going to a beach in the North on the basis that they were GCs? Or have they been made to feel unwelcome because they were GCs? I would like to know (no fibs please!) And I am not talking about arguments based on matters other than for reasons they were GCs. There are always displeased people for some reason or another even in their own part of the island.

It’s just a feeling of been uncomfortable but the only one so far who pointed the real reason is humanist.

Anything that may help improve TCs well being in the North seems to be perceived as a cardinal sin by TP and Co!

Actually there is absolutely no official Government policy or measures or laws or anything against any Gc spending money in the occupied. And it’s not TP who considers it a "sin". 99.9% of the GCs consider some types of spending as "sin" and some other acceptable. I don’t know if TP ever said anything, but believe me we don’t need TP to tell ushow we should act or feel.

Almost EVERYBODY considers it a sin to spend your money at cazinos and whorehouses.
I consider it a sin to go stay at a hotel that belongs to a GC or built on GC land. I consider it a sin eating at a restaurant run by a settler, but it’s OK for me if the restaurant is run by a TC. I consider it a sin to buy a pack of 10X20 cigarettes because they are 14 pounds compared with 22 pounds. But I am guilty of that sin, as I did it so many times

P, there is no point in going on about what happened in the past because it is not someyhing I am very fond of myself. However, the reason we became selective about the beaches we went to and were in fact scared to talk in Turkish was after we were bluntly told on one occasion, we could not enter the beach somewhere West of Kyrenia where there was a beach bar / restaurant. I think he was some kind of a beach attendant or the owner of the beach - bar, it could have been some stupid employee but who were we to argue? On another occasion, when on a beach, my brother and his friend got attacked by some GC youths (in my absence) and got physically assaulted fro being TCs. OK, these may have been isolated events, but you can understand why we felt uneasy from then on. On the contrary, in most of the beaches East of Kyrenia people were very friendly with us and did not care less. Even the traffic police who stopped us on couple of occasions were quite civil. My favourite beach at the time was what is now known as Acapulco Holiday Village. It had no hotel on the beach at the time but I think it was still called Acapulco, or perhaps it was the 5th mile or 6th mile beach - I cannot recall now. There was a lovely restaurant on the hill overlooking the beach (still there but belongs to the hotel now) where we could eat lovely kebabs and were always made to feel welcome.

As for government policies concerning spending money in the North, although I agree with you on the subject of casinos and whorehouses, is there no restriction on GCs regarding many goods that can be purchased and brought back with them into South?

With regards to Humanist's sentiments about the beaches being "your lands" we are occupying and him being uneasy - he needs to be reminded that in reality, beaches are no ones property but they belong to the public. The public being the citizens of Cyprus who have been living there all their lives and perhaps some mainland Greeks and Turks who had also become naturalised citizens over the past four decades. That being the case, YES I have experienced his feelings (and so did many other TCs) by reluctantly and uneasily making my way to the beach on many occasions after spending 5 years in an enclave that was nothing more than an open air prison. That was not just your country Humanist but also MY country and MY beaches which I ALSO had the right to enjoy just like any other GC! No one had any right to make me feel that way in MY own country (which is the only one one I had known of), just like no TC has the right to make any GC feel uneasy on a beach in any other part of Cyprus.

You keep doing what you criticise VP of doing by repeatedly reminding people of losses your family suffered or TCs occupying land that belonged to GCs. They are not doing anything different than what the GCs have been doing over many decades with the TC land in the South - so I really do not see what it is you are hoping to achieve by endlessly repeating such claims. I had many times given examples of my family's losses only as a response to you or someone else - examples which I would never have mentioned unprovoked! I will not tell you what happened to the grave (in Paphos) of the only sister I had in my male dominated family until I return to Cyprus and find out for myself. If what I have been told is true, I shall be asking you soon, what right you have in doing that to my loved ones in my own land! So where do we go from there?

[Kikapu]

If I could ever say which was the happiest day in my life I would say it was the day my Godmother (the woman who baptized me at the church and by tradition brings you presents) bought me a swim tube and then drove us to the beach. Seeing all that blue from a distance, I felt like I was flying.

I guess it was the same for many TC kids before 1963.

I really feel sorry for people like Deniz, BigOz, VP and others who were deprived that childhood joy for one reason or another.

And I am very glad you enjoyed your childhood at the beach dear Kikapu. I hope you did not have a father watching your sisters from talking to any other boys other than their brothers...

My father was in the UK from early age Pyro, so I never saw him except for once or twice when he would visit Cyprus. It was my Carpenter Uncle who looked after us. As for my sisters, well, I was no more than 7-8 years old and same for my twin sister, and all the remaining 3 sisters were much younger, so there were "no boys problems" looking at my sisters .

[Pyrpolizer]

P, there is no point in going on about what happened in the past because it is not someyhing I am very fond of myself. However, the reason we became selective about the beaches we went to and were in fact scared to talk in Turkish was after we were bluntly told on one occasion, we could not enter the beach somewhere West of Kyrenia where there was a beach bar / restaurant. I think he was some kind of a beach attendant or the owner of the beach - bar, it could have been some stupid employee but who were we to argue? On another occasion, when on a beach, my brother and his friend got attacked by some GC youths (in my absence) and got physically assaulted fro being TCs. OK, these may have been isolated events, but you can understand why we felt uneasy from then on. On the contrary, in most of the beaches East of Kyrenia people were very friendly with us and did not care less. Even the traffic police who stopped us on couple of occasions were quite civil. My favourite beach at the time was what is now known as Acapulco Holiday Village. It had no hotel on the beach at the time but I think it was still called Acapulco, or perhaps it was the 5th mile or 6th mile beach - I cannot recall now. There was a lovely restaurant on the hill overlooking the beach (still there but belongs to the hotel now) where we could eat lovely kebabs and were always made to feel welcome.

Thank you my friend, that was very informative.

As for government policies concerning spending money in the North, although I agree with you on the subject of casinos and whorehouses, is there no restriction on GCs regarding many goods that can be purchased and brought back with them into South?

Yes there are a hell of restrictions.It is almost the same like bringing back things you purchased from abroad. On the other hand
a) the RoC depends heavily on taxation to survive as state. Start from 15% vat. The Northern part does not. If they let completely free trade they would go bankrupt
b) There are the Eu regalations that only allow certain products to move freely. But I wouldn’t go to the north to buy a few kilo potatoes and then need phytosanitary certificates to pass them through… There is trade going on legally between merchants though.
c)Despite the above the police usually turns a blind eye, plus there are many items they cannot check. For example I buy all my clothes from there. I just wear them on top of my other clothes. Cigarettes: Hundreds of hiding places in the car. I put them in the cars air filter case. Tires: Many people go there and change their cars tires for almost half the price. (ask denizaksulu) Dental work: Too many GCs go to TC Dentists. Drag addicts needing intoxication. The same thing, as the RoC has not allowed any medical center yet to give methadon. (I think they are about to start though)

[Pyrpolizer]

If I could ever say which was the happiest day in my life I would say it was the day my Godmother (the woman who baptized me at the church and by tradition brings you presents) bought me a swim tube and then drove us to the beach. Seeing all that blue from a distance, I felt like I was flying.

I guess it was the same for many TC kids before 1963.

I really feel sorry for people like Deniz, BigOz, VP and others who were deprived that childhood joy for one reason or another.

And I am very glad you enjoyed your childhood at the beach dear Kikapu. I hope you did not have a father watching your sisters from talking to any other boys other than their brothers...

My father was in the UK from early age Pyro, so I never saw him except for once or twice when he would visit Cyprus. It was my Carpenter Uncle who looked after us. As for my sisters, well, I was no more than 7-8 years old and same for my twin sister, and all the remaining 3 sisters were much younger, so there were "no boys problems" looking at my sisters .

Lucky sisters you had then.
Mine would never find a husband if they weren't pretty (i think). So shy they became...

[denizaksulu]

Don't even like to remember that feeling in the UK VP but I suppose it is an inevitable consequence.

But the table has really turned as GCs not have to deal with a TC administration where the main language is Turkish just our community had to do back in history. Thats why I argue for the right to BBF where people can have the choice to live either north or south and no longer be forced to accept GC or TC administrations against their will.

I remember going to the beach among the hotels with my cousin, in Varosha. It was in the '70's and my cousin asked me to talk in whispers as the GCs didnt like the TCs there. I had put that memory into the deep recesses of my consciousness. Now you have brought it back. Now its a dead /ghost town.

I recall the same while on holiday my uncle would say dont speak Turkish or they will treat us like shit and that we were not allowed on certain beaches. Weird feeling not the dangers are far less but the tables have been turned and the GCs are now tasting just a little of what is was like for us back then and toady have the gaul to deny these cases even took place.

Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel for a Sunday evening conversation.

You all sound like a pack of Turkish grannies smoking dope.

Do you really get milleage out of this kind of mindless diatribe?

Drip, drip, drip goes the Turkish Propaganda Machine. A little oil may not go amiss.

Perhaps next time you ddecide to morph you can come back as "WD40".

My brother got such a smack on the boat they escaped the murdering EOKA thugs on for speaking Turkish. My dad speaks fluent Greek so he was the only one that was allowed to speak. I guess my brother did not understand the rules....

Zan, Zan, I am getting really worried know. Stop all that pathos stuff. Where is Get Real

I wonder why GR does not correct your spelling mistakes?

[Chimera]

It was once the TCs who felt threatened by going to beaches populated by GCs where they were made to feel uncomfortale or second class citizens, where they stopped their children from speaking Turkish just in case a GC would find out and treat them badly.

On reflection, and looking at the evidence for this absurd statement, I can only conclude that your parents were just trying to shut you up so that they could enjoy their day at the beach! Doh!

[denizaksulu]

@Deniz,

I am truly sorry for the feelings you (and any other TC) had when you were a kid trying to get some fun at the beach.

The question is
a)were those hostile feelings one sided?
b)Was the TC community friendly to the GCs?
c)What would happen to a GC if he fell inside a TC controlled area, would he be just disliked?

As for the sentimental post of VP (she is sooo goood in that...) can ANYONE of you UNDERSTAND why the GCs feel uncomfortable going to the beaches in the occupied areas?

Is it because
a)They are Minoity among a Majority?
b)they feel they are not welcome?
c)something else that WAS NOT SO FAR told?

Imo the tables have not turned. They got upside-down.

Hi Pyro. Your in total just shows whats its like to be a minority.
It is this feeling under which the RoC want to accept us. We both know how it feels . For any settlement , lets try and remember this.

To answer a) At the time we could have gone to the Kyrenia coast. My cousin took us to Varosha. I believe the hostility was one sided, otherwise we would not have gone there.

b) Stupid question, after all the hostilities they were fearful. The brave ones continued to keep and seek their friends. Mostly they were wary.

c) Depends what period you are referring to. Please clarify.

These are only my opinions from personal experience and in no way reflect the opinions of other TCs.

Regards
DA

[denizaksulu]

If I could ever say which was the happiest day in my life I would say it was the day my Godmother (the woman who baptized me at the church and by tradition brings you presents) bought me a swim tube and then drove us to the beach. Seeing all that blue from a distance, I felt like I was flying.

I guess it was the same for many TC kids before 1963.

I really feel sorry for people like Deniz, BigOz, VP and others who were deprived that childhood joy for one reason or another.

And I am very glad you enjoyed your childhood at the beach dear Kikapu. I hope you did not have a father watching your sisters from talking to any other boys other than their brothers...

To those who appreciate our past suffering I offer my own appreciation of there sufferings. Our feelings are mutual. I dont think there is much gloating, only among the ignorant of both side. They are the bad apples we need to deal with.

Regards
DA