Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Cyprus is NOT a bi communal society. It is a MULTI communal society and that fact leads one to question the wisdom of basing a future solution solely on bi-regional and bi-communal lines.

Our other communities are the Maronites, Latins, Armenians and Rom. The Annan plan made peremptory and therefore insulting mention of these communities, treating them as almost irrelevant entities.

But if we accept the principle that 18 per cent of the population is not a minority and must become a politically equal partner, then by rights the other minorities must also be treated as politically equal regardless of numbers or proportions. After all, all these communities have a historical presence on Cyprus which predates the Turkish Cypriots arrival in 1571.

Historically these communities have been ignored or treated in a hostile manner- they were expelled from the north after 1974, proof of the ethnic cleansing policy applied there against all non Turkish communities and not just Greeks. And in February 1964 the Armenians of Nicosia were violently expelled from their homes by Turkish armed gangs. That must have been the first act of ethnic cleansing in Cyprus.

So there seems to be a logical and political basis for seeking a multi regional multi communal solution to Cyprus and not simply a Bi one. I wonder what others think about this.

Nikitas

[repulsewarrior]

...allow me to explain:

multi zonal (or communal), implies something more than a population described: as a whole, and as Constituencies.

...simply put, the debate is flawed because it has been divided into what is "Turkish", and what is not "Turkish" (read: "Greek").

what is required, for a solution Bicomunal Bizonal, and a Federation, is: a Republic where we identify ourselves as Citizens and as Individuals, and, Constituencies where we can sustain a distinct identity as Electors, and thus as Persons. Two levels of Government would facilitate the equal needs that all Cypriot Constituencies have (as a People and as Peoples). by choice, Cypriots will defend each other as a People, and they will secure with this Freedom as such, the Liberty to represent themselves respectfully toward the minorities within their respective communities as Peoples.

geographically speaking, Constituencies can be made up of components. there is one Sovereignty, just as the existence of Cypriots and a Cypriot State is a certainty. yet within, as i've said before even if the island has a "Green Line" very much as it is today, Bizonally speaking, this does not exclude, it precludes the existence of enclaves as Jurisdictional Territories, north and south of that line, many parts, to facilitate what must be seen, the displaced, at least for some their re-population, Justice, to return as they were forced to leave, (not just as Individuals), but as Persons, as Communities. and if it were the case, a National Assembly, that represents a Greek Constituency could have many components, a Maronite, a Latin, an Armenian, (even a British), and a Turkish Constituency respectively, is realisable, effectively because, as Cypriots, these "majorities" in any "zone" are prepared to demonstrate their conviction toward Universal Principals, being one People, as a Republic of Cyprus, (firstly, (which also exists)), one island, and one country. the Cypriot way (i think it is GR that coined the phrase), is not necessarily "Greek", and not "Turkish", because its basis is rooted in something older, closer to the land, and dare i say, something more permanent too; newer thinking, if you will, i think should reflect such intentions.

...we are Bicommunal if we are: Cypriot above all, (not (just) "Greeks", and "Turks", indeed, because there are many more Cypriot Constituencies, but) as Individuals we see ourselves as Persons as well.
...if we are multi communal, as you say, then there would be more defined than this dichotomy, Individual/Person; does what i'm saying make sense to you, is it helpful?

[Sotos]

repulse ... it took you 7 years to think of an answer? This whole "bi communal" nonsense is a Turkish/British invention to divide Cyprus. In Cyprus there is a majority ethnic group and then there are several minorities ... nothing different than most other countries.

[Lordo]

you boys are too young to remeber what milti zone looked and felt like. not in your life. it will be a bi-communal or two independent states. but in reality the choice has already been made. we are heading for two independent states cause you pibol are just too slow. so slow you are in reverse gear.

[GreekIslandGirl]

One community of democratically equal Cypriots is not good enough for the Turks. I suggest all Turks begger-off for ever.

[Oceanside50]

you boys are too young to remeber what milti zone looked and felt like. not in your life. it will be a bi-communal or two independent states. but in reality the choice has already been made. we are heading for two independent states cause you pibol are just too slow. so slow you are in reverse gear.

A federation where all refugees have right of return and full rights...

[Maximus]

After all, all these communities have a historical presence on Cyprus which predates the Turkish Cypriots arrival in 1571.

That's the Ottoman arrival in 1571.

The Ottoman linage that still clings to mumma Turkiye should just bugger off to Turkey.

[Oceanside50]

One community of democratically equal Cypriots is not good enough for the Turks. I suggest all Turks begger-off for ever.

theres minimal negotiating in a federation, everyone know this.. Why have ROC leaders negotiating for the past 40 + years been negotiating on something that can't be negotiated and wasting everyone's time?

[repulsewarrior]

why be so unwilling to say to yourself and about yourself, "I am Cypriot", why must there be that suffix, "Greek", or "Turkish"? is it not possible in this, and beyond the Modern Age to say, i am willing to defend my brother because he is willing to defend me? Cyprus is not Greek, although Cypriots represented by their vast majority are Greek. it is an island, it is not Turkish either, it deserves our love and our respect, we like the rest of its dwellers are only passing, it "belongs" to no one, we are its stewards, and as Cypriots we end the thousands of years of subjugation the people on this island have suffered, if we choose to.

...if you want to be "Greek", or "Turkish", so be it, but do not ignore the rest of us, for the love of Humanity, Cypriots exist, "you" may have the Liberty you seek, each, within the boundaries of what is defined as Cypriot Constituencies to exercise the form of self representation that fulfills the agenda of a majority, but it is Freedom, Cypriots seek; the Flag of Cyprus is not a Greek Flag, Cypriots fly Greek Flags, and Turkish Flags, but without a Greek Constituency, the context that Cypriots are a People is mute.

a Bicommunal Bizonal Federation is not that hard to understand, Canada comes to mind because of its own language distinctions, something to consider, and keep in mind, given that almost eighty percent would claim English as their first language (almost half of them have as a mother tongue another language), yet it is the minority, Francophone Canadians (divided as they are, themselves) which still drive the National Agenda with their thinking to this day since its Founding, that makes Canada a better place. Canada is filled with Canadians, Canadians see themselves as Canadians, as Persons, at the Provincial level, they adapt respectfully.

...seriously, don't you find it odd that the President of Cyprus must defend and represent all Cypriots, and, defend Cypriots as Hellenes; shouldn't Cypriots as Hellenes be able to sustain themselves?

...the debate is flawed, if there are to be two countervailing arguments, it should be the Republic which defends our Individual Rights, and on the other side of the debate, the Cypriots Constituencies, who should be able to define what it is they equally need to sustain, each their identity as a Constituency. We have a Republic (indeed, in need of reform), yet there is no equal to a Turkish Constituency; i suggest a Greek, and other Constituencies would serve us better if they work toward unanimity, when it came to presenting reforms to the President, and to the State, he could consider toward changing Cyprus' Constitution.

[Oceanside50]

The problem is that Turkey will continue to meddle just like it is now and the past..add to it the Anatolian settlers and the cesspool they bring to the table and the problem worsens ..