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Turkish Cypriots mark Kokkina fighting

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby the_snake_and_the_crane » Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:23 pm

You are seeking moral equivalence on something that you can`t. You are restraining us from every aspect of economic, cultural, and educational life, and I mean everything.


YOU are the ones who use the term 'Greek Cyprus' or 'South Cyprus' not us - therefore dont moan when 'Greek Cyprus' is represented in an international event because it is CYPRUS that is there. If you want to join Cyprus than you are free to do so - but right now you are suffering the consequences of your illegal actions.

We can`t even get postal mail from outside of Cyprus if it wasn`t for Turkey.


We cant even pick flowers from our own gardens because of Turkey.

It is that very government of your`s that refused for us to have an innocent football match, which by the way meant nothing in terms of recognition as it was a friendship game and not an official one.


Here you are showing your lack of knowledge in terms of professional football. A 'friendship game' (i think you mean 'friendly') still has to go through the official footballing bodies of the territories where the teams are from. As the CFA (Cyprus Football Association) represents the island of Cyprus, then they have the say to which official football matches (even friendlies are official) happen within their territory. All Cetinkaya had to do was send a simple fax to the the CFA stating they were playing Luton Town, to which they did not. Therefore, I dont think this match was SO innocent, as if football was the only thing in mind for the Turkish Cypriot team, then I dont see why they did not fo through the official procedure which every other football team affiliated with FIFA does and formally inform the FA of the territory they are playing on. This match was another attempt at some kind of official recognition of the occupied north.


I am saddened to say this but I see no other option for my government than to restrict to the South things like you mention above which in return would hopefully trigger the GC community to pressure their administration to change its attitude.


Your never gonna get it are you :roll:
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Postby bigOz » Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:53 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:Bayrak says the kokkina was a "heroic resistance" Not a single word of the fact that the kokkina/red villages enclave was the entry gate of all ammunition and military personel from Turkey, who were then spread all over Cyprus in other enclaves.

P tou are touching a very delicate subject now, of which I have a very good knowledge of and remember living through those days. Below is the exact position of Koccina as it stood during 1964, and I do not have to read any sites or learn from anyone else! What I am about to write is for the attention of people like yourself, Bananiot, DT etc. and bears no significance to any propaganda or fanatic feelings anyone else may wish to address it as.

My two elderly brothers ended there after leaving their University studies aside. Few hundred students and a Turkish mainland senior officer as their commander. My father was a ranking officer at the police force (he had been a policeman since 1933 - not as an auxillary one recruited to combat EOKA during later years, but long before, as a proper British police officer who had training both in Cyprus and UK).

The Turkish villages they were stationed were surrounded by Greek villages and the sea (to this day). The only communication with that part of the area was by courier service provided by the Swedish UN soldiers who cpild travel there in their vehicles. KOCCINA AND THE VILLAGES COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN, AND WERE NEVER AN ENTRY POINT FOR ANY TURKISH SOLDIERS OR ARMS FOR THE REST OF THE TURKISH ENCLAVES ON THE ISLAND. Anyone who will argue the contrary is a total liar trying to justify their merciless attack against the TCs carried out in the area.

The only time TCs we sent and received letters from their sons or brothers were when the Swedish soldiers took it upon themselves to deliver them. The families of the students got to know each other well after a while and once a month everyone would cook "borek" and some other food, and prepare small gift packages that included cigarettes, underware and few other essential items such as toileteries. They were cut off from the rest of the world except a wireless contact with Turkey.

Photographs we received via UN forces were very distressing! They all looked like ghosts or zombies made up of skin and bone with hollow cheeks due to malnutrition.
They could not even talk to their families on the phone. They took up defensive positions around the Turkish enclaves for the duration of their stay. This quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgios_Karayiannis might help:
Georgios Karayiannis was an officer of the Greek Army. Having retired with the rank of General, he was approached on April 18, 1964 by his former colleague General George Grivas and offered the leadership of the newly-formed Greek Cypriot Cypriot National Guard, which post Karayiannis accepted. From April to August 1964 Karayiannis commanded and organised the Cypriot National Guard, whose stated mission was to defend the island against possible Turkish military invasion, and to counter the paramilitary forces of the Turkish Cypriot group known as Turkish Resistance Organization or TMT.

Grivas arrived in Cyprus himself on June 10, 1964 and used the popularity he gained in Cyprus and Greece during the EOKA era to coerce the governments of Greece and Cyprus into appointing him supreme military commander of Cyprus. On July 22 Grivas set himself up in an office at the National Guard headquarters and began to issue orders directly to National Guard units. This incensed Karayiannis who submitted his resignation, which was not accepted.

On July 4 negotiations on the Cyprus dispute began in Geneva between representatives of the US, Greek and Turkish governments, with the presence of the UN. Special advisor to the US representation was Dean Acheson, and those US proposals eventually became known as the Acheson plan. Karayiannis and Grivas were recalled to Athens on August 5 to confer with the Greek government. Karayiannis reports that he and Grivas were counselled by Minister of Defense Petros Garoufalias to exercise all restraint, as Enosis was imminent, and to seek the counsel of the Greek government before any action which might lead to escalation. Grivas was to return to Cyprus on August 6, and Karayiannis on August 7.

While returning to Cyprus on August 7 on board the Athens-Nicosia airliner, Karayiannis saw shell bursts and smoke in the Kokkina area. On arrival he headed immediately for the Headquarters of the National Guard which he found on full war alert. General Grivas informed Karayiannis that the Swedish battalion of the UN Forces in Cyprus had abandoned their positions on the hill known as Akoni in the Kokkina area on August 6, that Cypriot National Guard units which took their place came under fire from units of the TMT stationed on the nearby hill known as Lourovouno, and that therefore Grivas had ordered an attack on Lourovouno for the morning of August 7. Karayiannis reports that he later found out that the attack on Lourovouno had been ordered without the Greek government having been informed, and that Grivas had misled Makarios and the Council of Ministers of the Republic of Cyprus into thinking he would obtain authorisation from Greece before acting. Karayiannis was once more incensed at Grivas. He became even more incensed when he found out that the attack had been badly organised, so that it had only started at 15:30 in the afternoon instead of the planned time in the morning, and therefore failed to achieve its objectives by nightfall.

During that night Grivas ordered a large amount of forces into the Kokkina area and ordered an attack for the next morning. Lourovouno was taken by 07:45 on the morning of August 8. Still without authorisation from Greece, but with the support of Makarios, Grivas escalated operations, with the objective of taking over the entire Kokkina enclave. At 10:05, Grivas was ordered by signal from the General National Defense Staff of Greece to cease offensive operations at that time, which order he ignored. Later the same day, Greek Prime Minister Georgios Papandreou sent a message to Makarios expressing his disapproval of the latter's initiatives. While Grivas went to the field of operations, Karayiannis, who was insisting that the orders of the Greek government to suspend offensive operations be obeyed, remained at the Headquarters of the National Guard in Nicosia.

At 16:15 on the afternoon of August 8, the Turkish Air Force attacked the Cypriot National Guard formations in the Kokkina area, against no significant resistance as the National Guard operated no aircraft and had very rudimentary anti-aircraft capability. Grivas, who was present in the area, did all he could to prevent the panicking National Guardsmen from abandoning their positions. When the air attacks ceased two hours later, Grivas returned to his office at the Headquarters of the National Guard in Nicosia.

At 20:00 the Council of Ministers of the Republic of Cyprus convened, with the presence of Makarios, Grivas and Karayiannis. Grivas proposed, and the Council agreed to, an all-out night attack to take over the Kokkina enclave. Karayiannis intervened, asking Grivas whether he had any idea, if such an order were issued, as to when and how it would be carried out by units in the field. Grivas was forced to admit that he could not order an attack for earlier than the afternoon of the next day, August 9. Karayiannis also protested that the Government of the Republic of Cyprus was undertaking offensive initiatives without counsel with the government of Greece, despite prior agreements. The Minister of Interior and Defense of the Republic of Cyprus, Polycarpos Georkadjis, replied by submitting his resignation because, though Karayiannis was leader of the Cypriot National Guard, he was taking orders from Minister of Defense Garoufalias in Greece rather than Georkadjis. The resignation was not accepted.

After 21:00 Grivas returned to his office at the Headquarters of the Cypriot National Guard and, in the presence of Georkadjis, Karayiannis and others, submitted his resignation, describing himself as a "renegade" for not obeying the orders of the Greek government. He then left his office. Karayiannis immediately ordered all units to regroup, maintain positions and await further orders.

At 10:00 on the morning of August 9, the Turkish Air Force resumed its operations in the Kokkina area and extended them to civilian targets in the region. Napalm attacks on the villages of Pyrgos, Pigenia, Pachyammos, Pomos and the town of Polis Chrysochous killed 53 and injured 125 civilians. The Turkish Air Force also mistakenly attacked Kokkina itself. The Council of Ministers of the Republic of Cyprus, in an emergency session with Makarios presiding, decided to issue an ultimatum to the Turkish government warning that unless air attacks stopped, a general attack on Turkish Cypriot villages by the Cypriot National Guard would be ordered, and asked General Karayiannis to select two villages for destruction in case the ultimatum was not heeded. Karayiannis reports that he refused the order, saying that he was an army officer and not an executioner of innocent people.

During the night of August 9 the military crisis was defused by an intervention of the UN Security Council. All units were ordered to stand down. Only then did Grivas return to his office, having been absent throughout the critical events of August 9. He announced that he was assuming supreme military command of Cyprus once more. Karayiannis reported to him on events during the day and preparations to face a possible landing by the Turkish army, whereupon Grivas instructed Karayiannis not to move a single platoon without his personal approval.

Before, and during, the Kokkina crisis, Karayiannis found himself charged with duties to both the government of the Republic of Cyprus and of Greece, which became contradictory because of the lack of agreement between the two governments. He also found that Georkadjis and Grivas interfered with the discharge of his duties. He made his position clear in the account of events he submitted to the government of the Republic of Cyprus immediately after the Kokkina events. Immediately afterwards, he submitted a letter of resignation to Makarios. Makarios asked Karayiannis to reconsider his decision, which Karayiannis promised to do after returning to Greece to consult with the Greek government. Presumably, Makarios wished Karayiannis to stay on as Chief of Staff of the Cypriot National Guard as a counterweight to Supreme Military Commander Grivas, who Makarios was finding increasingly difficult to deal with. Karayiannis, however, after his return to Greece and consultation with the Greek government, wrote Makarios another letter upholding his decision to resign. Makarios wrote Karayiannis accepting his resignation and thanking him for his services.

In June 1965 Karayiannis began a series of articles on his time in Cyprus in the Greek newspaper "National Herald", in which he related his account of the facts and accused Grivas of military incompetence, irrational behaviour and psychological weakness. That series of articles, and his report on the Kokkina crisis submitted to the Government of the Republic of Cyprus immediately after events, provide an interesting insight into an important era in the Cyprus dispute and into the personality and actions of Grivas.


I witnessed the whole attacks on the final day listening to the transmission from a UN radio in my fathers office in Nicosia as it was reported. My father was sitting on th esame chair for two days listening to news of the fight not knowing his sons' faith and he never even acknowledged or recognised my presence on the first day! I was only there briefly the next day before going home to sleep. Anyway, I shall not go into details of the resistance the lightly armed students produced against a far superior well equipped force with artillary and armoured vehicles, for fear of offending the feelings of many GCs who might still have strong feelings on the whole subject (besides the military, many people in surrounding villages did get killed in the subsequent bombings by Turkish jets)...
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Postby Get Real! » Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:04 pm

bigOz wrote:KOCCINA AND THE VILLAGES COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN, AND WERE NEVER AN ENTRY POINT FOR ANY TURKISH SOLDIERS OR ARMS FOR THE REST OF THE TURKISH ENCLAVES ON THE ISLAND. Anyone who will argue the contrary is a total liar trying to justify their merciless attack against the TCs carried out in the area.

Kokkina was the ONLY SEA PORT accessible to the Turkish Cypriots, and at a very convenient location just across from Turkey, and that's why the TC's with the aid of Turkey fiercely resisted its surrender.

There simply was no other way TCs could smuggle weapons in Cyprus as all airports were controlled by GCs and here's some evidence of boat arms smuggling activity no doubt heading for Kokkina as there was nowhere else for the boat to go...

http://www.greece.org/cyprus/Navy.htm
Last edited by Get Real! on Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Murataga » Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:04 pm

the_snake_and_the_crane wrote:
Murataga wrote:quot;]]You are seeking moral equivalence on something that you can`t. You are restraining us from every aspect of economic, cultural, and educational life, and I mean everything.


YOU are the ones who use the term 'Greek Cyprus' or 'South Cyprus' not us - therefore dont moan when 'Greek Cyprus' is represented in an international event because it is CYPRUS that is there. If you want to join Cyprus than you are free to do so - but right now you are suffering the consequences of your illegal actions.


You mean our illegal actions to refuse to have this island handed over to Greece or our illegal actions to secure our right to exist in this island or our illegal actions to try to resist to have our rights to be usurped in the RoC or our illegal actions to ..................

the_snake_and_the_crane wrote:
Murataga wrote:We can`t even get postal mail from outside of Cyprus if it wasn`t for Turkey.


We cant even pick flowers from our own gardens because of Turkey.


Fine, than ambargo Turkey. 8)

Your ambargo started not in 1974, but in 1963. The reason was becasue we refused to succumb to your request of taking away our rights given by international agreements and your lunatic crusade for handing this island to Greece.

the_snake_and_the_crane wrote:
Murataga wrote:It is that very government of your`s that refused for us to have an innocent football match, which by the way meant nothing in terms of recognition as it was a friendship game and not an official one.


Here you are showing your lack of knowledge in terms of professional football. A 'friendship game' (i think you mean 'friendly') still has to go through the official footballing bodies of the territories where the teams are from. As the CFA (Cyprus Football Association) represents the island of Cyprus, then they have the say to which official football matches (even friendlies are official) happen within their territory. All Cetinkaya had to do was send a simple fax to the the CFA stating they were playing Luton Town, to which they did not. Therefore, I dont think this match was SO innocent, as if football was the only thing in mind for the Turkish Cypriot team, then I dont see why they did not fo through the official procedure which every other football team affiliated with FIFA does and formally inform the FA of the territory they are playing on. This match was another attempt at some kind of official recognition of the occupied north.


And recognize an administration that declares to represent everyone on this island when no TC exists in its body or the borders which they govern, not to mention that that administration tried to annihilate the TCs for refusing the annexation of Cyprus to Greece ?


the_snake_and_the_crane wrote:
Murataga wrote:I am saddened to say this but I see no other option for my government than to restrict to the South things like you mention above which in return would hopefully trigger the GC community to pressure their administration to change its attitude.


Your never gonna get it are you :roll:


No, I`ll never get it; I will never understand how you hold a face to ask for more when you have already taken all.
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Postby DT. » Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:05 pm

BigOz it looks like the TC's came under friendly fire as well though!

"At 10:00 on the morning of August 9, the Turkish Air Force resumed its operations in the Kokkina area and extended them to civilian targets in the region. Napalm attacks on the villages of Pyrgos, Pigenia, Pachyammos, Pomos and the town of Polis Chrysochous killed 53 and injured 125 civilians. The Turkish Air Force also mistakenly attacked Kokkina itself."
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:26 pm

BigOz,

I don't understand your point. Sure your two elderly brothers were there for "resistance". Resistance against what-a totally unexcussed attack? Or resistance to continue having total control of the Turkish supply line to Cyprus' enclaves?

There are hundreds of acredited web sites confirming the Kotchina (koccina you said...he, he you speak cypriot village language right?) enclave was a supply line of weaponry and military personnel from Turkey.
I will supply some as soon as you tell me which of the two is your point.

NB. I believe I have an article from the father(?) of Sevgul Uludag who is from kotchina about the situation.
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:45 pm

But even the fact that a few hundred University TC students just abandoned their studies and jumped up from Turkey to Kotchina/Red villages should trigger a suspicion alarm for you BigOz. WHY DO THAT? WHY SPECIFICALLY THERE????

Was there anything signifigant BEEN WAITED TO OCCUR THERE and they wanted to be the first heros?

Read here for both sides of the story.
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:58 pm

Here's the article I was talking about. Notice Ozbalikci confirms the whole Kotchina area (Tillyria or Dillyria) was full of fanatics on one side GC who took the Eoka path and Tcs who took the TMT path.

wrote: I returned to Mansura after 40 years.- By Ertogan Ozbalikci


All the donkies and all the stupidities gathered at the Tyllirians. Their poverty was not enough for them.The greeks took the road of Eoka and the turks the road of Tmt.
Me just 11 years old kid, my sister and my younger brother took the road and walked to our grandmothers house at Kokkina (Erenkoy). The bullets and the bombing continued. War in Ayios Theodoros, and Tylliria was bad.Laona had fallen.Grivas men were throwing their bombs from Malli on to Mansura.One day after, Mansura, Ayios Theodoros, Alefka, and Sellai had fallen. All the Turks left their villages.They all went to Kokkina (erenkoy). They lived for 2 years inside the caves.
Ever since 1974 nobody thought of the missery of the Tyllirians. In 1977 the Tyllirians came to Yialousa (yeni-Erenkoy) The poor Yialousians lost their houses and their lands.The same evil that struck the Tyllirians now struck the Yialousians.
In 2003 the roads re-opened.When the Tyllirians and the Yialousians came close together they realised that they suffered the same. They understood the trap, and the stupidity of fanatism.Me born in Mansura, my daughter,my son and my wife went to Mansura from Yialousa (Yeni erenkoy). 4,5 hours to go and 4,5 hours to come back. The whole Mansura village, and the house of my father were empty.My sister, my brother, my mother, my father all dead. The house empty.Our fig trees dried out, our almond trees dried out, only the sea kept singing. Our house was strong, the other houses of our co-villages have fallen down..Ibrahim,Pesibey,Rifat, Hamza of Karkal, Fehim, all of them dead. What did we benefit from the war? The Mosfili, Pyrgos,Pachiammos villages got isolated. If the road from Limniti was open the distance from Nicosia is only 50 minutes.
All of us lost, the Tyllirians, the Yialousians, the Karpasians lost.Who earned? If we the Cypriots have not yet got any wisdom who is going to give us wisdom?

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Postby zan » Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:21 pm

Get Real! wrote:
bigOz wrote:KOCCINA AND THE VILLAGES COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN, AND WERE NEVER AN ENTRY POINT FOR ANY TURKISH SOLDIERS OR ARMS FOR THE REST OF THE TURKISH ENCLAVES ON THE ISLAND. Anyone who will argue the contrary is a total liar trying to justify their merciless attack against the TCs carried out in the area.

Kokkina was the ONLY SEA PORT accessible to the Turkish Cypriots, and at a very convenient location just across from Turkey, and that's why the TC's with the aid of Turkey fiercely resisted its surrender.

There simply was no other way TCs could smuggle weapons in Cyprus as all airports were controlled by GCs and here's some evidence of boat arms smuggling activity no doubt heading for Kokkina as there was nowhere else for the boat to go...

http://www.greece.org/cyprus/Navy.htm



Ok GR I'll pretend to be your sacraficial lamb :roll: :roll: :roll: :lol:


You have a go at us for putting up proof and then you say that they are from Turkish propaganda sites and then you post complete rubbish from a Greek propaganda site.. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)


Happy now.


Why don't you just put signs up where ever you lay traps. "This way for all gullible Turks" or something like that.


You are so full of yourself that you only fool your self. :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby denizaksulu » Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:28 pm

DT. wrote:BigOz it looks like the TC's came under friendly fire as well though!

"At 10:00 on the morning of August 9, the Turkish Air Force resumed its operations in the Kokkina area and extended them to civilian targets in the region. Napalm attacks on the villages of Pyrgos, Pigenia, Pachyammos, Pomos and the town of Polis Chrysochous killed 53 and injured 125 civilians. The Turkish Air Force also mistakenly attacked Kokkina itself."



True, and so did the GCs. The jittery GC defenders did shoot down Greek Military support aircraft carrying Greek Commandos. It happens in almost all wars. No point gloating. Its all too sad.
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