Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

So? What is wrong with knowing what Turks are all about and be ready for their murderous reaction? Because democracy is unacceptable to Turks does this mean we have to abandon it as well?

You wouldn't know democracy if it jumped up and bit you on the arse.(You really are a lost soul without your numbers)Democracy is making proposals to change the constitution and then having a vote on it , not then trying to murder ALL those that want to vote against you...Where was that place that that happened and thousands of innocent people were killed....Oh yeah....Cyprus.

You were free to vote, but you choose conflict and murders instead.

A Turk giving me democracy lessons. Whats next?

Here is what democracy is:

THE PILLARS OF DEMOCRACY

* Sovereignty of the people.
* Government based upon consent of the governed.
* Majority rule.
* Minority rights.
* Guarantee of basic human rights.
* Free and fair elections.
* Equality before the law.
* Due process of law.
* Constitutional limits on government.
* Social, economic, and political pluralism.
* Values of tolerance, pragmatism, cooperation, and compromise.

These elements define the fundamental elements of all modern democracies, no matter how varied in history, culture, and economy. Despite their enormous differences as nations and societies, the essential elements of constitutional government--majority rule coupled with individual and minority rights, and the rule of law--can be found in Canada and Costa Rica, France and Botswana, Japan and India.

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/w ... hatdm2.htm

When you are ready to accept democracy let us know. Until then don't bullshit us, because we know very well that what you are trying to force in Cyprus has nothing to do with democracy.

[zan]

1. The right of veto of the President and the Vice-President of the Republic to be abolished.

2. The Vice-President of the Republic to deputise for or replace the President of the Republic in case of his temporary absence or incapacity to perform his duties. In consequence, therefore, all the constitutional provisions in respect of joint action by the President and the Vice-President of the Republic to be modified accordingly.

3. The Greek President of the House of Representatives and its Turkish Vice-President to be elected by the House as a whole and not as at present the President by the Greek Members of the House and the Vice-President by the Turkish Members of the House.

4. The Vice-President of the House of Representatives to deputise for or replace the President of the House in case of his temporary absence or incapacity to perform his duties.

5. The constitutional provisions regarding separate majority for enactment of Laws by the House of Representatives to be abolished.

6. The constitutional provision regarding the establishment of separate Municipalities in the five main towns to be abolished. Provision should be made so that: (a) The Municipal Council in each of the aforesaid five towns shall consist of Greek and Turkish Councillors in proportion to the number of the Greek and Turkish inhabitants of such town by whom they shall be elected respectively. (b) In the Budget of each of such aforesaid towns, after deducting any expenditure required for common services, a percentage of the balance proportionate to the number of the Turkish inhabitants of such town shall be earmarked and disposed of in accordance with the wishes of the Turkish Councillors. 7. The constitutional provision regarding Courts consisting of Greek Judges to try Greeks and of Turkish Judges to try Turks and of mixed Courts consisting of Greek and Turkish Judges to try cases where the litigants are Greeks and Turks to be abolished.

8. The division of the Security Forces into Police and Gendarmerie to be abolished, (Provision to be made in case the Head of the Police is a Greek the Deputy Head to be a Turk and vice versa).

9. The numerical strength of the Security Forces and of the Army to be determined by Law and not by agreement between the President and the Vice-President of the Republic.

10. The proportion of the participation of Greek and Turkish Cypriots in the composition of the Public Service and of the Forces of the Republic, i.e. the Police and the Army, to be modified inproportion to the ratio of the population of Greek and Turkish Cypriots.

11. The number of the members of the Public Service Commission to be reduced from ten to either five or seven.

12. All the decisions of the Public Service Commission to be taken by simple majority. If there is an allegation of discrimination on the unanimous request either of the Greek or of the Turkish members of the Commission, its Chairman to be bound to refer the matter to the Supreme Constitutional Court.

13. The Greek Communal Chamber to be abolished".

Above are the "13 points" proposals that would simply bring Cyprus more in line with what existed in every other democracy in the world. The TCs refused to even discuss them, and for them it was an excuse to start a conflict against us again!!

You forgot the Akritas Plan. Point 14.

[Piratis]

These elements define the fundamental elements of all modern democracies, no matter how varied in history, culture, and economy. Despite their enormous differences as nations and societies, the essential elements of constitutional government--majority rule coupled with individual and minority rights, and the rule of law--can be found in Canada and Costa Rica, France and Botswana, Japan and India.

So lets see how democratic are the Turks. In Turkey, they do not allow the Kurds to enjoy their human and minority rights, therefore eliminating the fundamental democratic principle of "individual and minority rights".

In Cyprus on the other hand, where Turks are the 18% of the population, they are not satisfied with democracy and the "individual and minority rights", and they want to again eliminate democracy by removing another one of its fundamental elements, the "majority rule".

These are the Turks who now want to give us democracy lessons

[T_C]

But we're not Turks....we're Turkish Cypriots!!!!

We're not foreigners.

[zan]

These elements define the fundamental elements of all modern democracies, no matter how varied in history, culture, and economy. Despite their enormous differences as nations and societies, the essential elements of constitutional government--majority rule coupled with individual and minority rights, and the rule of law--can be found in Canada and Costa Rica, France and Botswana, Japan and India.

So lets see how democratic are the Turks. In Turkey, they do not allow the Kurds to enjoy their human and minority rights, therefore eliminating the fundamental democratic principle of "individual and minority rights".

In Cyprus on the other hand, where Turks are the 18% of the population, they are not satisfied with democracy and the "individual and minority rights", and they want to again eliminate democracy by removing another one of its fundamental elements, the "majority rule".

These are the Turks who now want to give us democracy lessons

In Greece......There are Greeks.......


In Cyprus there are Turkish Cypriots...........I grant you there are also 40,000 Turks as well but they are our guests....

[Piratis]

turkish_cypriot, can you then stop acting like foreign rulers trying to impose your will on Cyprus by force, and accept Cyprus to be ruled by Cypriots (you included) via democratic means as described above?

[zan]

turkish_cypriot, can you then stop acting like foreign rulers trying to impose your will on Cyprus by force, and accept Cyprus to be ruled by Cypriots (you included) via democratic means as described above?

NO!

[T_C]

turkish_cypriot, can you then stop acting like foreign rulers trying to impose your will on Cyprus by force, and accept Cyprus to be ruled by Cypriots (you included) via democratic means as described above?

I would if some of our issues were resolved. But I dont feel like hardly anything is and theres no way I'm going to agree on uniting if I feel like I might regret it. I'd rather have the status we have now, where you cant go home and we cant trade with the rest of the world. Jumping into living together after all these years of being "enemies" just doesnt sound like a good idea to me...

Theres too much tension and too much resentment on both sides and its obvious and there to see EVERYWHERE. We can't trust eachother or live together till we resolve these issues..

[Piratis]

There is tension, mistrust and resentment and the question is how to end this.

As I had said long time ago what is the important question is the where we want to go. The how comes second, since there is no point in discussing on "how" we will go somewhere before we know where that somewhere is.

So if we could agree (and be honest about it) that where we want to go, the final aim, is one, united, truly independent and truly democratic Cyprus without racist discriminations, then I am sure we can find the paths that will lead as to this destination.

However if the majority of TCs want what Murataga, Zan and VP want, which is to make a part of Cyprus legitimately Turkish, then obviously the "where" we want to go is totally different, and therefore discussing the "how" is useless. If in fact TCs want to make Turkish the north part of Cyprus, which is the homeland of 5 times more GCs than TCs, then I hope you can see there is no way we can stop being enemies, and the tensions, mistrust and hate can only increase.

[Pyrpolizer]

Interesting thought Pyrpolizer.

But when we restore the Island back to normal I would be only to relieved if it came without the "Turks-born-on-Cyprus".

Surely Turkey loves them enough she will take them all in.......Oh I see then the "Turks-born-in-Asia Minor" will trip over them...

A bit like:

"Big fleas have little fleas
upon their backs to bite them,
and little fleas have smaller fleas,
and so on ad Infinitum..."

I personally like the term TCs or Turkish speaking Cypriots.

But why are you saying that? Aren't the TCs human like us? Have you ever heard that we have the same DNA like the TCs which differs too much from that of the mainland Greeks and Turks?

I believe your comment that they are sort of fleas very degrading, and I completely disagree with you. Yes they hurt us and we hurt them in the past. If we haven't yet learned our lesson then what's the point of even talking for reunification?