Cyprus-Forum.com

[Murataga]

Which do you believe was a stronger desire for the GC community between the time the RoC was established and 1974:

(a) to unite Cyprus with Greece - ENOSIS; or

(b) to live as an independent State where power is shared with the TCs?

And could you also state what was the strongest action that the GC community undertook to achieve/show this for your selected answer. Thanks.

[Pyrpolizer]

My strongest desire when I as young was to have enough money and screw as many women as I could.

[Get Real!]

My strongest desire when I as young was to have enough money and screw as many women as I could.

But has anything since changed?

[Kikapu]

My strongest desire when I as young was to have enough money and screw as many women as I could.

So Pyro, which one of the two "desires" did you manage to have the MOST in the end.

[the_snake_and_the_crane]

...and the moral of this story is....THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE lol.

[zan]

My strongest desire when I as young was to have enough money and screw as many women as I could.

So Pyro, which one of the two "desires" did you manage to have the MOST in the end.

I think he is spending the money on therapy

[bigOz]

Which do you believe was a stronger desire for the GC community between the time the RoC was established and 1974:

(a) to unite Cyprus with Greece - ENOSIS; or

(b) to live as an independent State where power is shared with the TCs?

And could you also state what was the strongest action that the GC community undertook to achieve/show this for your selected answer. Thanks.

For the first 8 years or so, it was ENOSIS by a vast majority of GCs. Not all who had this desire had the will to kill all TCs. However the leadership never stopped talking of the EOKA "heroes" of the past and the "megalo idea".

Everyone can deny the above, and look for reports in the Greek press at the time - but I know it by hard! We had a good reception of the RoC TV and I used to listen to the patriotic speeches given by the GC leaders with my family, horrified at the contents. This was at every opportunity when a leader visited a village or when it was a Greek national day of some kind. Those who are too young to know are now coming with all sorts of rubbish and asking for proof etc. Those who are over 45 probably know exactly what I am talking about. ENOSIS was the only desire in those times...

During the next half of this saga, between 1968 -1974 Makarios and many of his followers realised Cyprus had a much stronger economy, better standard of life, and even social ethics than mainland Greece. With the TCs dwindling in numbers due to mass exodus by the young since 1963, it was only a matter of time before the whole of Cyprus would be ruled by GCs and the Church AS A REPUBLIC.

Being a seasoned politician by now, Makarios could see the sense in not threatening the TCs (who were not clearly a threat to any GC) and allowing them some freedom in an effort to dissolve the enclaves. Hence, the one-sided opening up of the cross-border gates to TCs for travelling around the whole of Cyprus. He became more tolerant of Denktash and there were some giant leaps towards a lasting peace in terms of inter-communal negotiations just before 1974.

GCs being strong supporters of Makarios went along with his desires, and now these have shifted from ENOSIS to Cyprus Republic for Cypriots. However, his change of heart was not favoured by many hard core Enosis supporters or Greece (ruled by the ENOSIS supporting JUNTA), both of whom Makarios underestimated - relying on the weak independent status of RoC.

That is when all hell broke loose between Makarios and Enosis supporters during 1974! So, in short the answer would be "yes" to Enosis for the first 6 years after 1960, but "No" to Enosis by the majority (if not all) for the next 6 years after that... But the ENOSIS supporters had won and replaced Makarios with their own EOKA member Nikos Sampson. He would have probably lasted a lot longer and murdered many more GCs and TCs, probably a lot more than who had subsequently died as a result of the Turkish invasion in response!

Put the patriotic feelings aside and tell me what I witnessed, saw and heard as above was just a nightmare and not a reality - if you dare!

[Kikapu]

Which do you believe was a stronger desire for the GC community between the time the RoC was established and 1974:

(a) to unite Cyprus with Greece - ENOSIS; or

(b) to live as an independent State where power is shared with the TCs?

And could you also state what was the strongest action that the GC community undertook to achieve/show this for your selected answer. Thanks.

For the first 8 years or so, it was ENOSIS by a vast majority of GCs. Not all who had this desire had the will to kill all TCs. However the leadership never stopped talking of the EOKA "heroes" of the past and the "megalo idea".

Everyone can deny the above, and look for reports in the Greek press at the time - but I know it by hard! We had a good reception of the RoC TV and I used to listen to the patriotic speeches given by the GC leaders with my family, horrified at the contents. This was at every opportunity when a leader visited a village or when it was a Greek national day of some kind. Those who are too young to know are now coming with all sorts of rubbish and asking for proof etc. Those who are over 45 probably know exactly what I am talking about. ENOSIS was the only desire in those times...

During the next half of this saga, between 1968 -1974 Makarios and many of his followers realised Cyprus had a much stronger economy, better standard of life, and even social ethics than mainland Greece. With the TCs dwindling in numbers due to mass exodus by the young since 1963, it was only a matter of time before the whole of Cyprus would be ruled by GCs and the Church AS A REPUBLIC.

Being a seasoned politician by now, Makarios could see the sense in not threatening the TCs (who were not clearly a threat to any GC) and allowing them some freedom in an effort to dissolve the enclaves. Hence, the one-sided opening up of the cross-border gates to TCs for travelling around the whole of Cyprus. He became more tolerant of Denktash and there were some giant leaps towards a lasting peace in terms of inter-communal negotiations just before 1974.

GCs being strong supporters of Makarios went along with his desires, and now these have shifted from ENOSIS to Cyprus Republic for Cypriots. However, his change of heart was not favoured by many hard core Enosis supporters or Greece (ruled by the ENOSIS supporting JUNTA), both of whom Makarios underestimated - relying on the weak independent status of RoC.

That is when all hell broke loose between Makarios and Enosis supporters during 1974! So, in short the answer would be "yes" to Enosis for the first 6 years after 1960, but "No" to Enosis by the majority (if not all) for the next 6 years after that... But the ENOSIS supporters had won and replaced Makarios with their own EOKA member Nikos Sampson. He would have probably lasted a lot longer and murdered many more GCs and TCs, probably a lot more than who had subsequently died as a result of the Turkish invasion in response!

Put the patriotic feelings aside and tell me what I witnessed, saw and heard as above was just a nightmare and not a reality - if you dare!

In that case, I don't know why Turkey didn't just restore "Law and Order" after kicking Sampson out, and turn the Republic back to the Cypriots, if large majority indeed did not want Enosis. So why are we were we are today, if the Enosis trouble makers were only a very small minority, that had been already taken care of by Turkey in the first few days of the Coup, and Makarios was not seen as a threat to the TC's for 6 years before, leading to the Coup in '74 by the Junta.. This would have been welcomed by all Cypriots, GC's and TC's for Turkey's role as a Intervening Guarantor Power, which what she signed up to do in the first place.

[halil]

1.why Turkey didn't just restore "Law and Order" after kicking Sampson out ?
1.why Turkey didn't put Dr Fazil Kucuk as a president of the Cyprus by taking whole of the Cyprus ? till restore "Law and Order"

[bigOz]

Which do you believe was a stronger desire for the GC community between the time the RoC was established and 1974:

(a) to unite Cyprus with Greece - ENOSIS; or

(b) to live as an independent State where power is shared with the TCs?

And could you also state what was the strongest action that the GC community undertook to achieve/show this for your selected answer. Thanks.

For the first 8 years or so, it was ENOSIS by a vast majority of GCs. Not all who had this desire had the will to kill all TCs. However the leadership never stopped talking of the EOKA "heroes" of the past and the "megalo idea".

Everyone can deny the above, and look for reports in the Greek press at the time - but I know it by hard! We had a good reception of the RoC TV and I used to listen to the patriotic speeches given by the GC leaders with my family, horrified at the contents. This was at every opportunity when a leader visited a village or when it was a Greek national day of some kind. Those who are too young to know are now coming with all sorts of rubbish and asking for proof etc. Those who are over 45 probably know exactly what I am talking about. ENOSIS was the only desire in those times...

During the next half of this saga, between 1968 -1974 Makarios and many of his followers realised Cyprus had a much stronger economy, better standard of life, and even social ethics than mainland Greece. With the TCs dwindling in numbers due to mass exodus by the young since 1963, it was only a matter of time before the whole of Cyprus would be ruled by GCs and the Church AS A REPUBLIC.

Being a seasoned politician by now, Makarios could see the sense in not threatening the TCs (who were not clearly a threat to any GC) and allowing them some freedom in an effort to dissolve the enclaves. Hence, the one-sided opening up of the cross-border gates to TCs for travelling around the whole of Cyprus. He became more tolerant of Denktash and there were some giant leaps towards a lasting peace in terms of inter-communal negotiations just before 1974.

GCs being strong supporters of Makarios went along with his desires, and now these have shifted from ENOSIS to Cyprus Republic for Cypriots. However, his change of heart was not favoured by many hard core Enosis supporters or Greece (ruled by the ENOSIS supporting JUNTA), both of whom Makarios underestimated - relying on the weak independent status of RoC.

That is when all hell broke loose between Makarios and Enosis supporters during 1974! So, in short the answer would be "yes" to Enosis for the first 6 years after 1960, but "No" to Enosis by the majority (if not all) for the next 6 years after that... But the ENOSIS supporters had won and replaced Makarios with their own EOKA member Nikos Sampson. He would have probably lasted a lot longer and murdered many more GCs and TCs, probably a lot more than who had subsequently died as a result of the Turkish invasion in response!

Put the patriotic feelings aside and tell me what I witnessed, saw and heard as above was just a nightmare and not a reality - if you dare!

In that case, I don't know why Turkey didn't just restore "Law and Order" after kicking Sampson out, and turn the Republic back to the Cypriots, if large majority indeed did not want Enosis. So why are we were we are today, if the Enosis trouble makers were only a very small minority, that had been already taken care of by Turkey in the first few days of the Coup, and Makarios was not seen as a threat to the TC's for 6 years before, leading to the Coup in '74 by the Junta.. This would have been welcomed by all Cypriots, GC's and TC's for Turkey's role as a Intervening Guarantor Power, which what she signed up to do in the first place.

You have a point there - but a closer look at the subsequent events would explain why things had develped the way they have.

The large majority did not want Enosis, but by the same token, because in response to GC demands for Enosis, the TCs had been asking for "partition" which in effect was a demand for double Enosis; i.e. the island should be divided by Greece and Turkey. The above being the case, there was great mistrust between the two communities and to their respective motherlands (Greece and Turkey) who were portrayed as parties interested in annexing Cyprus.

When the invasion started, Ecevit made it very clear in the international media that the military action was to restore the Republic's status, it was not aimed at the GCs, and under the circumstances it was to ensure the safety of all inhabitants of Cyprus - not just the TCs. During the invasion leaflets were dropped from air to that effect, explaining the Turkey's intentions and for GCs to lay down their arms - guaranteeing they would be treated with respect and dignity. These were dropped on an island already occupied by UN-F-CYP who also read them, hence they could not have been a bluff. A copy of one was displayed by iceman in another thread couple of months ago.

Having made their intentions clear and expecting no resistance from the locals, the landing forces headed for one of the least favourable and most defended beach heads, few miles West of Kyrenia. This was the start of things going wrong and the whole invasion process turning into something else.

Turkish army's major losses was during the first landings as above, when artillery and heavy machine fire greeted them from concrete pillar boxes (still along the coast and mountains to this day). Once the infantry faced such fire power, the warships opened fire on all suspected military positions OUTSIDE OCCUPIED AREAS such as Kyrenia town itself and the surrounding villages. Soon after GCs new fanatic leaders (Samson) and military realised an invasion was on the way, attacks on all Turkish enclaves in Paphos, Nicosia, Famagusta, Lefka spontaneously followed. Paratroopers landing as part of the invasion process also met heavy resistance from the expecting National Guard and mainland Greek forces on the ground. The same forces started a major offensive using artillery and tanks against a handful of mainland Turkish infantry division stationed in "Gonyeli" as part of the 1960 agreements.

By now the whole thing had gone out of hand, with fightings in and around all Turkish enclaves with foreign media reports of attacks on Turkish civilians by the retreating Greek forces. Knowing that TCs outside Turkish military controlled areas were vulnerable and under constant threat of an attack / extermination, the military decided to move towards enclaves in Famagusta and Lefke-Morphou areas. Before the tank regiments could reach Famagusta, the Turkish enclave in the main town had been bombarded by mortars for weeks.

When mass graves of TC civilians - mainly elderly people, women and children were discovered in no less than 3 villages few miles from Famagusta - a repeat and reminder of what was happening during 1963-67 era - the whole operation now had a new purpose. To secure an area of land where TCs can be safely kept. This was encouraged more so by tens of thousands of refugees from Limassol and Paphos region, most of them who had left all their earthly posessions to live in tents in the safety of British sovereign bases.

RoC allowed Turkish refugees in their thousands to be ferried from the British bases to North, under UN supervision. From then on, the initial purpose and aim of the invasion had shifted considerably, because for all intents and purposes GCs and the Turkish army had now become enemies and that included the TCs and GCs who had both suffered great losses (albeit the GCs a lot more in terms of human losses - that was magnified even more so by the deaths of many who supported Makarios after the coup).

So as you can see, it is not a simple case of Turkey waking up one morning and deciding to divide the island into two. The whole operation went through a metamorphosis as events unfolded. The outcome in the end had developed into today's division, and had been in both TCs had Turkey's favour in terms of territorial gain / control. But I cannot help think about what would have happened if Makarios had not died so soon after the invasion and if the international talks on finding a solution continued. Based on his vast experience and knowledge of what had been happening on the island and having seen both sides of the coin, a part of me says that a solution would have been found a very long time ago. His death created a political vacuum that was exploited by politicians on both sides and had caused the subsequent extension of the Cyprus problem...