Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

Zan,
You are right in thinking it is most often thought of as a chicken-egg type problem. People mostly can't decide which comes first consciousness or being and whether the latter is dependent on the former or the other way around. Consequently there is a tendency to fall into an inifinite loop.

However very broadly speaking there are two traditions in philosophy, namely idealism and realism. Idealism holds that it is ideas which inform what exists and since ideas are a product of human consciousness it necessarily means that consciousness is prior to and producing of 'things'. In contrast realism holds that what exists is independent of consciousness of its existence.

I've given a very crude (and in some senses misleading) description of these traditions and there is clearly masses to be said about this (and not on a thread about oil !). What I would argue is that these apparently 'abstract' and 'philosophical' questions are actually not only ever present in our daily conversations (including this forum) but are crucial to the way that we seek to undertsand the world even though we are unware most of the time of our 'layman's philosophy'. It is my strongly held conviction that every person is a philosopher whether they like it or not, whether they accept that label or not. To be a human being, to coin a phrase, is to be a philosopher.

I think the oil debate is dead so I see no reason why we can't talk about something else....After all that seems to be the way all threads go anyway.

I know very little about this subject but am always facinated by it.

By what you said above then I must be a Realist because Idealism must need a god for it to exist, as it were.

I really can't see where the confusion is...there are very many living things which exist without being conscious of their existance....Hence you have to exist first to have any chance of being conscious of it...Hence... I am, therefore I think...And I am supposed to be the big idealist in this forum...

[Pyrpolizer]

Now tell me are you satisfied or are you NOT satisfied for the fact that most propably there is no oil. Personally I am. The situation might have lead to a new war...

Pyro, what size of diapers are you wearing to send you a packet or two?

Any size will do Kifeas as long as they are trademarked "Lapithos, Kyrenia, now Pafos " like the ones you are wearing day in day out.

Pyro, I can assure you I neither wear diapers, nor do I accept to live because others allow me, more so Turkey! Only a special case of a psycho (and not only) would have uttered the above lines of yours! Perhaps you should consider committing suicide instead, rather than living such a miserable phobic life like the one you do! I can assure you it will be far more honourable than accepting to live like a reptile!

Not only you accept to live a miserable life in diapers, but you also visit Lapithos wearing your diapers watching them building holiday homes on your own stolen lands.

So save your packs of diapers for yourself.

[Pyrpolizer]

Btw just learn something from the TCs in here who always stay united without unnecessary insults and fighting with their own people. Will you wise guy?

[Kifeas]

Btw just learn something from the TCs in here who always stay united without unnecessary insults and fighting with their own people. Will you wise guy?

Pyro, my own people are only those that have pride, dignity and self-respect, regardless of whether they are GCs or TCs!

You do not seem to posses such qualities, for you would rather choose to live in the shadow of Turkey or any other bully, just so that you spare your life by not having to fight them! That is also what the reptiles do!

[Pyrpolizer]

You never answered with what make of diapers you go watch them building holiday homes on your stolen lands.You brave man with "dignity and self respect" my ass!!!

You are just an insane person, who derives pleasure from taking it off to anyone who dares admit the weakness YOU YOURSELF POSSESSES.

As for what reptiles do, they do bite and pour in deadly poison to anyone who might dare threaten them. You are just jealous you do not even posses the qualities of a reptile. You are a worm!

[oranos64]

Bananiot
I destroyed cyprus ..the likes of me ...man ...you all blow ... it is the likes of me that have unified most of the cypriot community in LONDON..it is the likes of me that has turkish cypriot mates ...and calls for equality ..but ill be dammed if i was to sit back and allow TURKS etc to have a voice over the future of my families land ...

never will i allow 74 to be repeated and never will i allow the sacrifaces of my breahten to go in vain ....GREEK OR CYPRIOT ...

Bananiot i am the multitude ....fear the future ...when my voice is echoed in the thousands ...my pack grows in numbers and my fingers are in many domains ....

democracy and justice is coming

Oranos...Bananiot is right...there are very many multitudes of a different kind who say "never will we allow 1963 to 74 be repeated....and never will i allow the sacrifices of my breathen to go in vain....TURKISH OR CYPRIOT TURKISH..."...You see the problem????? Will you take us back to the rule of the jungle???? Survival of the fittest????Why don't you and your kind and the other kind who are just like you take your problems and solve them elsewhere??? Not in our homeland...Please...?

bro i am home ...this is my home , i know live in cyprus ....famagusta is my true home ..i have land and property there and it is illegal occupied by your theiving kind ..and wether you like it or not ..i am the mulitude .... here in cyprus ..my voiced is echoed and booming ,

LAWYERS ,PUBLIC SERVANTS ,.OF EVERY WALKS OF LIFE ... WHEN THE PEACE PROCESS BEGINS TO TAKE SHAPE ...NEW VOICES OF REASON WILL SPEAK ....
my kind will dominate ....time give me time

[zan]

Zan,
You are right in thinking it is most often thought of as a chicken-egg type problem. People mostly can't decide which comes first consciousness or being and whether the latter is dependent on the former or the other way around. Consequently there is a tendency to fall into an inifinite loop.

However very broadly speaking there are two traditions in philosophy, namely idealism and realism. Idealism holds that it is ideas which inform what exists and since ideas are a product of human consciousness it necessarily means that consciousness is prior to and producing of 'things'. In contrast realism holds that what exists is independent of consciousness of its existence.

I've given a very crude (and in some senses misleading) description of these traditions and there is clearly masses to be said about this (and not on a thread about oil !). What I would argue is that these apparently 'abstract' and 'philosophical' questions are actually not only ever present in our daily conversations (including this forum) but are crucial to the way that we seek to undertsand the world even though we are unware most of the time of our 'layman's philosophy'. It is my strongly held conviction that every person is a philosopher whether they like it or not, whether they accept that label or not. To be a human being, to coin a phrase, is to be a philosopher.

I think the oil debate is dead so I see no reason why we can't talk about something else....After all that seems to be the way all threads go anyway.

I know very little about this subject but am always facinated by it.

By what you said above then I must be a Realist because Idealism must need a god for it to exist, as it were.

I really can't see where the confusion is...there are very many living things which exist without being conscious of their existance....Hence you have to exist first to have any chance of being conscious of it...Hence... I am, therefore I think...And I am supposed to be the big idealist in this forum...

To use a question to answer that, and I think this is what Copperline meant, I hope, "If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one there to witness it, does it make a noise". If consciousness is not there to acknowledge matter does it exist. What was there before the Big Bang...It does not matter because we have no way of acknowledging it. We can pick up traces of the Big Bang but we cannot of what ever was there before. Only an Idealist can do that because he will bring into play Gods consciousness to explain it. When in doubt bring in a God. Worked for thousands of years.

Now where you come in is with your faith in an entity that does not exist either and that is, "Love will conquer all". If that were the case then what a wonderful world we would live in. You trust people to pay you back and they do not. You trust a partner to be fair and they never are. I do not mean that you have to walk around hating and mistrusting every one but a proper legal contract will protect both of the parties involved. When a person I am going into a partnership says those immortal words, "I trust you", I say "Don't". Not because I am untrustworthy but it takes out the element of surprise and doubt. Those two things can breed into paranoia and cause a hell of a lot of damage. There is no shame in drawing up contracts and saves a hell of a lot of grief. Cyprob included.

[Kifeas]

You never answered with what make of diapers you go watch them building holiday homes on your stolen lands.You brave man with "dignity and self respect" my ass!!!

You are just an insane person, who derives pleasure from taking it off to anyone who dares admit the weakness YOU YOURSELF POSSESSES.

Pyro, you should first learn that dying like an eagle is far more noble and dignified, than living like a reptile!

Why should I wear diapers of any make when I watch them built villas in my stolen lands, if I know that it takes a couple of years to built a house, but only a couple of minutes to demolish it? Didn’t it take us years and years to built Famagusta, before 1974, but only a few hours to lose it all together?

I watch them with a smile in my face, for I know that if I will not like to keep the houses in my land, I can easily demolish them! Why should I wear diapers?

[Pyrpolizer]

Sure, sure! In the meantime just keep a stock of these for your imaginary glorious moments

[Kikapu]

OK, that's it, I'm putting my foot down and sending both of you, Pyro & Kifeas to your rooms to calm down.

You have both been "grounded".!!