Cyprus-Forum.com

[twinkle]

You're no "devil"

[dms007]

...... "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." ......

for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, the needle must be quite big.
on the other hand it is easier for a needle to pass through the eye of a camel.

considering the size of a needle to be hardly a few centimeters and the eye of a needle a few millimeters, why would he make such a statement, when everyone knows how difficult it is for even a thread to go through a needle?

[Eliko]

QUOTE Eliko:
"I think the Lord knows well enough how much money is being pumped into his "houses" and probably IS shocked and angry at the behaviour of humanity in general, perhaps he has turned his back upon us all, it surely appears to be so these troubled times. "

What evidence is there that God has done anything but turn "his back"? He doesn't intervene to solve our problems, because he does not exist.

....and it's not that he is letting us solve problems for ourselves, as again that would preclude any reason for needing him to exist in the first place.

Once we realise we have responsibility for our actions, then we can be free to get on with solving our problems and not waiting for Divine Intervention to get us out of a sticky mess.

Chimera, my comments were metaphorical (for the benefit of those whose concept of God has a physical AND spritual form) they were not intended to be taken literally.

My personal views are more in alignment with your closing statement, although I would say that the need for some spiritual guidance is required.

The whole reason for any belief in a superior entity is to ensure that mankind can exist peacefully during it's lifetime.

How we interpret the teachings and writings of they who preceded us is a matter for our own conscience, unfortunately, (like so much else in our daily lives), distortions have taken place and the end product is not as it should be.

I still believe in the basic goodness of mankind as I have spent much time among the ordinary peoples of the world (regardless of their beliefs).

Following the principles of those people, there could never be conflicts like we witness in the world today, the leaders of those people are the ones who (have and do) created/create the said distortions in order to achieve what they perceive to be superiority over their fellow man.

In the final analysis, we ALL know the difference between right and wrong, the pity is that we are not allowed to influence our leaders since they have become unassailable, WE, mere pawns in their evil games.

In my humble opinion.

[Bananiot]

Why do you take common crooks, like archbishop Chrysostomos, seriously? Remember the methods he used to climb to the top spot with only 9% of the popular vote? One day he talks about solar panels, the previous day he was on about the Annan Plan and the one before he was talking about banks. A couple of weeks ago he told us that the church is more close to DIKO (God has preferences!) and then, only yesterday he spoke about how Makarios was misquoted and misunderstood and that he never meant to agree to a bizonal federation. Then, he was sent to the Pope (probably by Papadopoulos) for some PR.

What spiritual work can one imagine for this man to be able to do? Besides, the saving of the soul has nothing to do with spiritualism. It simply sooths our ingrained selfishness and promises us an eternal life because 70 or 80 years on this earth are not enough.

Bring on Richard Dawkins!

[Chimera]

QUOTE Eliko:
“The whole reason for any belief in a superior entity is to ensure that mankind can exist peacefully during it's lifetime.”

With all due respect Eliko, since I have found your comments on this forum to be intelligent and sympathetic, but I beg to differ on this statement. The very belief in a superior entity has been the cause of virtually all known wars. The reason for belief may be admirable but in reality it has never worked.


QUOTE Eliko:
“How we interpret the teachings and writings of they who preceded us is a matter for our own conscience, unfortunately, (like so much else in our daily lives), distortions have taken place and the end product is not as it should be.”

It is not distortions that have taken place, but the natural evolution of the teachings. These have changed from beliefs in 12 Gods (Olympus) to explain natural wonders whose workings we were ignorant of: to one God who created all, to now, the question of whether that one, surviving metaphorical God, is still necessary to explain anything.

QUOTE Eliko:
“I still believe in the basic goodness of mankind as I have spent much time among the ordinary peoples of the world (regardless of their beliefs).”

Evidence from psychology/genetic studies unequivocally prove that Humans are inherently good. This has been selected for because we are basically social creatures and have evolved great mechanisms for helping each other to survive.

QUOTE Eliko:
“Following the principles of those people, there could never be conflicts like we witness in the world today, the leaders of those people are the ones who (have and do) created/create the said distortions in order to achieve what they perceive to be superiority over their fellow man.
In the final analysis, we ALL know the difference between right and wrong, the pity is that we are not allowed to influence our leaders since they have become unassailable, WE, mere pawns in their evil games.”

Well said Eliko, I concur fully.

[devil]

...... "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." ......

for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, the needle must be quite big.
on the other hand it is easier for a needle to pass through the eye of a camel.

considering the size of a needle to be hardly a few centimeters and the eye of a needle a few millimeters, why would he make such a statement, when everyone knows how difficult it is for even a thread to go through a needle?

Don't take it literally; we may have the answer here in Cyprus, in Nicosia, the Famagusta gate:



The main part of the gate is designed exactly to allow a laden camel through, no bigger and no smaller. The "eye of the needle" was the name given to the small gate to the side of one of the main gates in Jerusalem. There is a similar reference in the OT Song of Songs. However, I think that it is more probably a mistranslation of the original NT Greek, κάμηλος and κάμιλος (camel and cable resp.). IOW, more difficult to pass a cable or rope through the eye of a needle.

[LENA]

If you believe in God, you don't have to go to church.

True by the way what do you think about saying your sins to the priest...do you need priest for that as well? Get bless from them? Going to the church is not to find the God by the way...God is everywhere. But Church is his house as we say...but not literally is a place that people go to pray ...not that they can not pray elsewhere but there i guess you feel different...you go to listen the words of the God .... i love to go to a female monastery near where i live is really lovely and make me feel peaceful.

A priest doesn't forgive your sins, God does. Ask God directly. Priests are just middle men, estate agents, insurance brokers etc.

As for a Church being God's house I disagree. God is everywhere so you don't need to go to a specific place to talk to him. He would be shocked and angry if He knew how much money was being pumped into His "houses". It's appalling! I do agree though that they can be a peaceful place to retreat and reflect but you should not feel as though they are the only place you can go to.

Twinkle I said that Church is called the house of the God...but is not literally ...yes of course God is everywhere and He knows everything. I said that we dont need to go to church to pary etc...but I personally feel calm to pray there. I admit that i dont go often to the church and i am not saying that is Sunday i should go...but i go when i feel i need to...

As for the priest yes i do agree and you know what? If your sins are big or you had a big fight they tell you to go back to the person that you had the fight with and ask forgiveness and then go back to bless you....this kind of priest keep lots of people away from church.