Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Perhaps some simularities with the resistance put up against Hellenism by the Turks and what Hellenism really is.

THE GREEKS VS. THE JEWS

During his military campaign against Persia, Alexander takes a detour to the south, conquering Tyre and then Egypt via what is today Israel. Alexander is planning to destroy the Temple, egged on by the Samaritans who hate the Jews There is a fascinating story about Alexander's first encounter with the Jews of Israel. (Who were until that time subjects of the Persian Empire).

The narrative concerning Alexander's first interaction with the Jews is recorded in both the Talmud (Yoma 69a and in the Jewish historian Josephus's book Antiquities XI, 321-47.) In both accounts the High Priest of the Temple (in the Talmudic narrative he is Shimon HaTzaddik -- the last surviving member of the Men of the Great Assembly) in Jerusalem, fearing that Alexander would destroy the city, goes out to meet him before he arrives at the city. The narrative then describes how Alexander, upon seeing the High Priest dismounts and bows to him. (Alexander rarely, if ever, bowed to anyone.) In Josephus's account, when asked by his general, Parmerio, to explain his actions he answered: "I did not bow before him but before that God who has honored him with the high Priesthood; for I saw this very person in a dream, in this very apparel."

Alexander interpreted the vision of the High Priest as a good omen and thus spared Jerusalem and peacefully absorbed the Land of Israel into his growing empire. As tribute to his benign conquest the Rabbis decreed that the Jewish firstborn of that time be named Alexander (which is a Jewish name until today) and date of the meeting (25th of Teves) was declared a minor holiday.

So Alexander the Great does not destroy the Temple. And he listens when Shimon HaTzaddik tells him that the Jews are not enemies of the Greeks but the Samaritans are. The Talmud relates the interaction between Alexander and the Jewish delegation

They (the Jews led by Shimon HaTzaddik) answered, "Is it possible that these idol worshippers should fool you into destroying the House where prayers are offered for you and your kingdom that it should never be destroyed!" Alexander said to them, "What idol worshippers do you mean?" They replied, "We are referring to the Samaritans who are standing before you now." Said Alexander, "I am handing them over to you to do with them as you please."(4)

As a result, the Jews are given free rein to go trash the Samaritans, which they promptly go out and do. And Israel and Jerusalem are peacefully absorbed into the Greek Empire.

At first, the Greek authorities preserve the rights of the local Jewish population and do not attempt to interfere with Jewish religious practice. The Jews continue to flourish as a separate and distinct entity for 165 years - a rare phenomenon in the Hellenistic world.

The vast majority of the peoples conquered by Alexander the Great have willingly allowed themselves to be Hellenized. The fact that the Jews - with the exception of a small minority - reject Hellenism is a strong testament to that ever-present Jewish drive and sense of mission.

The famed classical historian Michael Grant, in his From Alexander to Cleopatra (p. 75), explains:

The Jews proved not only unassimilated, but unassimilable, and ... the demonstration that this was so proved one of the most significant turning-points in Greek history, owing to the gigantic influence exerted throughout subsequent ages by their religion...

But with time, Judaism, with its intractable beliefs and bizarre practices, begins to stand out as an open challenge to the concept of Hellenistic world supremacy.

For the generally tolerant Greeks, this challenge becomes more and more intolerable. It is only a matter of time before open conflict will arise.

[Chimera]

........and your point with this is ?

[bigOz]

Is the Hellenism you all talk about the same Hellenism Greece tried to spread in Asia Minor beginning with the landing of the Greek troops in Izmir - 1919? You got a bloody nose then and you would get another one again, so better forget about it. Why dont you keep it simply Cyprus for the Cypriots?
Regards
DA

So what about Smyrna for the people who founded that city?

What about it? The Greeks set fire to it and all sorrounding villages before literally running into the sea to board the boats back to mainland, when faced by the advancing Turks (who were a fraction of the invading armies)!

[denizaksulu]

[quote="the_snake_and_the_crane"][quote]Is the Hellenism you all talk about the same Hellenism Greece tried to spread in Asia Minor beginning with the landing of the Greek troops in Izmir - 1919? You got a bloody nose then and you would get another one again, so better forget about it. Why dont you keep it simply Cyprus for the Cypriots?
Regards
DA[/quote]

So what about Smyrna for the people who founded that city?[/quote]


So what about About IZMIR? Alex the son of Philip of the MACEDONIANS founded lots of cities, so what. What about Contantinopolis, now its Istanbul. Do you want that back as well? Hellenism died with the Mikri Asiatic Kataclysmos. Its about time you put that dream asleep and try for Cypriotism.
Ofcourse you have to be Cypriot first. Are you Cypriot? If you are you will understand.
RegardsDA

[denizaksulu]

[quote="humanist"]Perhaps because some want to Turkify it, DA ......... change needs to occur from both sides of the divide.[/quote]

You are right there Humanist. It was not out of choice but unfortunately the TCs were forced into the corner by the events of '63 and that is what happens. It would not have been my first choice. My first choice was Cyprus for Cypriots, but look at the mess you made. You wanted your Enosis the TCs said OXI and you lost part of the Island. Obviously the TC's do not want your kind of Hellenism in Cyprus. If you do you can have it in the south. If you give Hellenism up, maybe there is some hope for those who want Cyprus for the Cypriots.
Regards
DA

[Chimera]

There is only one governing body of Cyprus and that is the Republic of Cyprus. It is not called the Greek Republic of Cyprus. We are true to ourselves.

We did not request to be labelled Turkish as the "Turks-born-on Cyprus" seemed to need to be to feel "safe". Now for some reason you do not feel so safe to be constantly labelled as part of a Turkish republic.

If you ask for forgiveness and to come back under the complete umbrella of RoC, you have to ask your friends the Turkish Army to leave.

[T_C]

Perhaps because some want to Turkify it, DA ......... change needs to occur from both sides of the divide.

You are right there Humanist. It was not out of choice but unfortunately the TCs were forced into the corner by the events of '63 and that is what happens. It would not have been my first choice. My first choice was Cyprus for Cypriots, but look at the mess you made. You wanted your Enosis the TCs said OXI and you lost part of the Island. Obviously the TC's do not want your kind of Hellenism in Cyprus. If you do you can have it in the south. If you give Hellenism up, maybe there is some hope for those who want Cyprus for the Cypriots.
Regards
DA

My thoughts exactly deniz!

GCs dont believe that though. Apparently we wanted to partition Cyprus, it was our "dream"

Because we fought back they're under the impression that we were as bad as them

Which kinda explains why the hardliners are really trying to convince themselves that we really wanted partition from the get go, because if we didnt then maybe, just maybe we did it because we had to....but I'm sure the "superior" GCs know better

[DT.]

Perhaps because some want to Turkify it, DA ......... change needs to occur from both sides of the divide.

You are right there Humanist. It was not out of choice but unfortunately the TCs were forced into the corner by the events of '63 and that is what happens. It would not have been my first choice. My first choice was Cyprus for Cypriots, but look at the mess you made. You wanted your Enosis the TCs said OXI and you lost part of the Island. Obviously the TC's do not want your kind of Hellenism in Cyprus. If you do you can have it in the south. If you give Hellenism up, maybe there is some hope for those who want Cyprus for the Cypriots.
Regards
DA

My thoughts exactly deniz!

GCs dont believe that though. Apparently we wanted to partition Cyprus, it was our "dream"

Because we fought back they're under the impression that we were as bad as them

Which kinda explains why the hardliners are really trying to convince themselves that we really wanted partition from the get go, because if we didnt then maybe, just maybe we did it because we had to....but I'm sure the "superior" GCs know better

aw shucks Turkish_Cypriot....you cant let the fact that i'm superior interfere with our discussions. Just call me SUperDT and we'll speak nothing more of it.

[T_C]

[Piratis]

Perhaps because some want to Turkify it, DA ......... change needs to occur from both sides of the divide.

You are right there Humanist. It was not out of choice but unfortunately the TCs were forced into the corner by the events of '63 and that is what happens. It would not have been my first choice. My first choice was Cyprus for Cypriots, but look at the mess you made. You wanted your Enosis the TCs said OXI and you lost part of the Island. Obviously the TC's do not want your kind of Hellenism in Cyprus. If you do you can have it in the south. If you give Hellenism up, maybe there is some hope for those who want Cyprus for the Cypriots.
Regards
DA

My thoughts exactly deniz!

GCs dont believe that though. Apparently we wanted to partition Cyprus, it was our "dream"

Because we fought back they're under the impression that we were as bad as them

Which kinda explains why the hardliners are really trying to convince themselves that we really wanted partition from the get go, because if we didnt then maybe, just maybe we did it because we had to....but I'm sure the "superior" GCs know better

T_C, GCs demanded their legitimate right for union with Greece and you turned against us for this. I guess everything was fine when the Turks ruled Cyprus against the will of the great majority of Cypriots, but when Cypriots wanted to decide the destiny of their own island that was not ok?

That inter communal conflict started in the 50s, when TCs colaborated with the colonialists and attacked the Greek Cypriots, simply because they didn't agree with our legitimate demand for finally liberating our island and uniting it with the rest of the Greek state.

Here I gave two links to a BBC documentary. Watch the part 2 at around 12min 30 sec, to see how the inter communal conflict started.
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 777#186777

And if you are talking about 1963, which was the second part of the inter-communal conflict, here is how it started:

On 21 December 1963, an angry Turkish-Cypriot crowd surrounded an armed and nervous Greek-Cypriot police patrol in Nicosia. Accounts of the confrontation differ between the Cypriot communities. On one point, however, they agree; two Turk-Cypriot civilians and one Greek-Cypriot policeman were shot dead. This incident marked a major crisis in the Cypriot inter-communal conflict. The struggle developed into one of overt violence. The initiative fell from the hands of the politicians and was taken up by the communal paramilitary forces.

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/www.cypr ... p%203.html

Nobody denies that GCs committed crimes during that conflict, but to blame exclusively the GCs for it is outrageous and has nothing to do with the truth. And nobody denies that some GCs continued to support enosis after 1960, but to claim that TCs stoped supporting partition is the biggest lie ever. TCs supported partition since before the 50s and they continue to do so today, so cut the lies please and face the truth.

The TCs are trying to blame the inter-communal conflict exclusively on us in order to excuse yet more crimes and illegalities against us. They simply do not want to accept their share of blame for that conflict, since in that case they would be throwing away their only excuse for continuing with crimes and illegalities against us.