Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

The biggest mistake the TCs have committed was walking away from the Republic in 1964,and putting too much trust in Turkey's intentions.We now stare the bitter truth in the face: Turkey was more concerned about her own military and strategic interests than protecting the TCs from real or imaginary massacres...I have come to the conclusion that TCs are the biggest losers in this conflict.The GCs have found their feet,they run their own relatively prosperous country,and are the masters of thier own soverign and independent state which is now taking her place amongst the proud nations of the European Union...After 50 odd years of struggle what have the TCs achieved????They are the second class citizens of a pariah state,ruled by a Turkish governor (read the Turkish Ambassador) and kept in check by the commander of the Turkish Forces in Cyprus.Our numbers are dwindling,we are already a minority,and our right to self determination is fast evaporating trough the roof of this comi-tragedy of our own making...No amount of fancy footwork by bigOz or wishful thinking by Zan or regurgitating by VP can change these facts...As TCs we have two options left...Demand our rights in the 1960 constitution and throw our weight behind the GCs in the effort to get Turkey off our backs...Or totally capitulate to Turkish rule and prepare to mass immigrate withing 20 years to Turkey when the EU chickens will come to roost...Piratis can afford to sit back and repeat his numbers and his apportioning of the blame,and his infexible stand on a solution because time is working for him...But what excuse do we have on the TC side????????Except perhaps a deep seated, mass self-extermination instict???

I have come to the same conclussion like Birkibrisli. The biggest obstacle in finding a solution IS the Turkish army because that is the one who decides about national matters in Turkey. Whether Erdogan will form a strong Government or not is totally irrelevant. The question is what he can do about Cyprus given the fact that the army decides. The answer is nothing.

On the other hand the TCs (the majority of them) feel they need the Turkish Army for their protection. But with the Turkish army present and deciding there will never be a solution. (In case you think it can then talk about it)

So how YOU THINK the Turkish army would leave?

[karma]

The biggest mistake the TCs have committed was walking away from the Republic in 1964,and putting too much trust in Turkey's intentions.We now stare the bitter truth in the face: Turkey was more concerned about her own military and strategic interests than protecting the TCs from real or imaginary massacres...I have come to the conclusion that TCs are the biggest losers in this conflict.The GCs have found their feet,they run their own relatively prosperous country,and are the masters of thier own soverign and independent state which is now taking her place amongst the proud nations of the European Union...After 50 odd years of struggle what have the TCs achieved????They are the second class citizens of a pariah state,ruled by a Turkish governor (read the Turkish Ambassador) and kept in check by the commander of the Turkish Forces in Cyprus.Our numbers are dwindling,we are already a minority,and our right to self determination is fast evaporating trough the roof of this comi-tragedy of our own making...No amount of fancy footwork by bigOz or wishful thinking by Zan or regurgitating by VP can change these facts...As TCs we have two options left...Demand our rights in the 1960 constitution and throw our weight behind the GCs in the effort to get Turkey off our backs...Or totally capitulate to Turkish rule and prepare to mass immigrate withing 20 years to Turkey when the EU chickens will come to roost...Piratis can afford to sit back and repeat his numbers and his apportioning of the blame,and his infexible stand on a solution because time is working for him...But what excuse do we have on the TC side????????Except perhaps a deep seated, mass self-extermination instict???

I have come to the same conclussion like Birkibrisli. The biggest obstacle in finding a solution IS the Turkish army because that is the one who decides about national matters in Turkey. Whether Erdogan will form a strong Government or not is totally irrelevant. The question is what he can do about Cyprus given the fact that the army decides. The answer is nothing.

On the other hand the TCs (the majority of them) feel they need the Turkish Army for their protection. But with the Turkish army present and deciding there will never be a solution. (In case you think it can then talk about it)

So how YOU THINK the Turkish army would leave?

I dont know HOW but I know the DATE >>> 31st February..

[humanist]

I am afraid Prpolizer, the Turkish Army will not leave. Whether we (all Cypriots) like it or not. Unless the ECHR requests the assistance of the international arena to implement econmic sanctions on Turkey till she meets her obligations to the ECHR. Something that Germany and America will not allow to happen.

[zan]

Give us a better deal and watch what happens. Stop trying to blame the army for everything. You need to talk and agree with us. Talking over our heads is a ploy and when it stops then you will have nothing else to blame.

[zan]

The biggest mistake the TCs have committed was walking away from the Republic in 1964,and putting too much trust in Turkey's intentions.We now stare the bitter truth in the face: Turkey was more concerned about her own military and strategic interests than protecting the TCs from real or imaginary massacres...I have come to the conclusion that TCs are the biggest losers in this conflict.The GCs have found their feet,they run their own relatively prosperous country,and are the masters of thier own soverign and independent state which is now taking her place amongst the proud nations of the European Union...After 50 odd years of struggle what have the TCs achieved????They are the second class citizens of a pariah state,ruled by a Turkish governor (read the Turkish Ambassador) and kept in check by the commander of the Turkish Forces in Cyprus.Our numbers are dwindling,we are already a minority,and our right to self determination is fast evaporating trough the roof of this comi-tragedy of our own making...No amount of fancy footwork by bigOz or wishful thinking by Zan or regurgitating by VP can change these facts...As TCs we have two options left...Demand our rights in the 1960 constitution and throw our weight behind the GCs in the effort to get Turkey off our backs...Or totally capitulate to Turkish rule and prepare to mass immigrate withing 20 years to Turkey when the EU chickens will come to roost...Piratis can afford to sit back and repeat his numbers and his apportioning of the blame,and his infexible stand on a solution because time is working for him...But what excuse do we have on the TC side????????Except perhaps a deep seated, mass self-extermination instict???

Simplistic to the core The masacre being the only point on which this is based. Forgewt the political spin and dangers, forget the fact that Greece still has a hand in Cyprus, forget the history and all the dirty tricks that the "RoC" have played and you will come up with this simplistic idealism.

[Pyrpolizer]

Absolutely NOT. I don't want to forget anything. I want the TC people to undergo absolutely no danger/no threat. I want to strike out even the remote possibility of any dirty tricks coming up.

Btw I am not the only one who realized the one AND ONLY who decides about what is considered "National interests" in Turkey are the Turkish Generals. You placed your fate in the hands of Turkey's "national interests" now tell me how you will ever free yourselves from this vice unless the Turkish army leaves from here.

[Pyrpolizer]

I am afraid Prpolizer, the Turkish Army will not leave. Whether we (all Cypriots) like it or not. Unless the ECHR requests the assistance of the international arena to implement econmic sanctions on Turkey till she meets her obligations to the ECHR. Something that Germany and America will not allow to happen.

I agree with you humanist with a slight deviation. If the TCs ever realize that the Turkish Generals are the handbrake behind EVERY move towards a solution, then they are are the ONLY ONES who can drive them out of here.

I am not saying the Cyprob will be solved in 24 hours as some think. However this is the only possibility to have it solved.

I also think Birkibrisli's proposal to join forces with the GCs cannot be done. The turkish army may take it out on us (the GCs) and slaughter all of us.
All they (The TCs) can do is just put down their terms/ their thoughts/their conditions so that the Turkish army leaves, and the GCs consent to ALL OF THEM no questions asked no hidden tricks. This is the only support we (The GCs) can offer. Remember we are still considered "the enemies" by most, we are considered the ones whom the Turkish army is supposely protecting them from.

[bigOz]

Absolutely NOT. I don't want to forget anything. I want the TC people to undergo absolutely no danger/no threat. I want to strike out even the remote possibility of any dirty tricks coming up.

Btw I am not the only one who realized the one AND ONLY who decides about what is considered "National interests" in Turkey are the Turkish Generals. You placed your fate in the hands of Turkey's "national interests" now tell me how you will ever free yourselves from this vice unless the Turkish army leaves from here.

If the national interests of Turkiye are in the hands of the Turkish army, and since over the last decade they have:

a) remained a secular state - outside religious fanaticism followed in many other Muslim countries,

b) made large leaps towards more democracy and continue to improve issues relating to human rights,

c) became more tolerant to Kurdish ethnic citizens in South East Turkey with huge economic and social investments in the area

d) stopped the abnormal inflation rates and secured a strong currency

e) reduced and continued to reduce foreign debts to minimal

f) increased the current economic growth rate to one of the biggest (if not the biggest) in Europe.

g) increased revenue from tourism to more than "fourfold" over the last decade

etc. etc. then I have no objection to the same army looking after the national interests of TRNC as well!

However I do agree with Pyrpolizer's later post where he states the Turkish army is seen by TCs as protectors against any possible GC aggression. So as Zan said, lets stop the waffle about the Turkish army and talk to each other! We all know that once TCs and GCs agree to living together in peace with international assurances covering safety of TCs, the Turkish army will become history... I have not seen any evidence of or claim to the contrary from anyone (including Turkiye).

My own observation is, it is not Turkiye or the Turkish army who have put a "vice" around the TCs interests, but the few local greedy opportunists within TRNC who are exploiting the situation to increase their or their relatives wealth. As TCs we are not stupid and are well aware of what has been happening over the years - talk to us, agree to live with us in a bi-zonal fedaral state, give us some breathing space and we know exactly what must be done to bring our economy to the levels of the South. Other than that talking about the presence of Turkish army as an excuse for anything is nothing but a lot of crap!

[DT.]

Absolutely NOT. I don't want to forget anything. I want the TC people to undergo absolutely no danger/no threat. I want to strike out even the remote possibility of any dirty tricks coming up.

Btw I am not the only one who realized the one AND ONLY who decides about what is considered "National interests" in Turkey are the Turkish Generals. You placed your fate in the hands of Turkey's "national interests" now tell me how you will ever free yourselves from this vice unless the Turkish army leaves from here.

If the national interests of Turkiye are in the hands of the Turkish army, and since over the last decade they have:

a) remained a secular state - outside religious fanaticism followed in many other Muslim countries,

b) made large leaps towards more democracy and continue to improve issues relating to human rights,

c) became more tolerant to Kurdish ethnic citizens in South East Turkey with huge economic and social investments in the area

d) stopped the abnormal inflation rates and secured a strong currency

e) reduced and continued to reduce foreign debts to minimal

f) increased the current economic growth rate to one of the biggest (if not the biggest) in Europe.

g) increased revenue from tourism to more than "fourfold" over the last decade

etc. etc. then I have no objection to the same army looking after the national interests of TRNC as well!

However I do agree with Pyrpolizer's later post where he states the Turkish army is seen by TCs as protectors against any possible GC aggression. So as Zan said, lets stop the waffle about the Turkish army and talk to each other! We all know that once TCs and GCs agree to living together in peace with international assurances covering safety of TCs, the Turkish army will become history... I have not seen any evidence of or claim to the contrary from anyone (including Turkiye).

My own observation is, it is not Turkiye or the Turkish army who have put a "vice" around the TCs interests, but the few local greedy opportunists within TRNC who are exploiting the situation to increase their or their relatives wealth. As TCs we are not stupid and are well aware of what has been happening over the years - talk to us, agree to live with us in a bi-zonal fedaral state, give us some breathing space and we know exactly what must be done to bring our economy to the levels of the South. Other than that talking about the presence of Turkish army as an excuse for anything is nothing but a lot of crap!

BigOz me old matey...you know i love hving it out with you so here goes.

a) They have no choice. Islam = no more army
b) It is a state still ran by the millitary. No matter how democratic it gets they can still overthrow whoever they like.
c) not enough info on this so won't talk out my arse.
d) If securing a strong currency means knocking off a coupld of zeroes of the lira then they've done great
e) Turkish foreign debt has actually risen from last year by 2.7% to around 200 billion usd
f) When a country is developing and starts from a lower GDP output then when the furnace gets going it will naturally be increasing at a faster level. eg from a GDP of 1 to go to 2 is a 100% increase. However from a GDP of 100 to 110 is only a 10% increase. The rate of growth is not a reliable factor for the health of an economy.
g) There is indeed a high rate of growth in tourism as is the case in many other placed in the Med as well. To the extent that the fund we are managing is looking seriously into growing its exposure into Turkey.

As you know we GC's are keen investors in Turkey.

[free_cyprus]

the biggest obstacle to finding lasting peace in cyprus is this cypriots can be compared to a cancer patient, the petient has cancer of the brain and th eonly way to save the petient is to cut out the cancer,,,,,,,,,,thus coming to some greement with ankara and athens and britain to break of all diplomatic relationships with cyprus for at least 50 years soo the island can develop its own identity as greek and turkish speaking cypriots , this sounds drastic donst it readers well for drastic situations one needs drastic actions, further more cyprus should not have army of any kind on the island,this will further devide the cypriot community, but a visionary army can be set of say 2000 people from both cumminities as a reaction force from cyprus to help victioms of earth quake of floods or such natural disaters this cyprus leading the way into the the world platform in terms of example that we are one people on the island, as long as we have im turkish and im greek declarations in cyprus this false beliefe that all cypriots have, there will never ever be any settlement that will leave cyprus to be free self determining island and if you people in this forum think otherwise they you need your heads examined