Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

pitsilos

i tend to agree with kikapu...the RoC is evolving daily while the occupied areas ara stagnating daily...playing catch up but the chasm, i am afraid, is getting wider...

either way you look at it you will lose...either from wiping out, a real genoside, or with less than from before...

your choise

Very right Pitsilos. the chasm is gettin wider and that is real concern. unfair also as ppl on both sides are waiting for something that'll never happen I guess. Yet ppl in the north cannot see that nothing has changed in the last 30 years and certainly not tha last three years, other than the fact that they come and work for the "Greeks" when infact they can be equals, the choice is theirs I guess.


The RoC can help a little more though I have to admit. Not enough is being done, but then again which nation in the world would help its enemy. And if we are viewed as the enemy we will behave as that.

Then you are accepting that you will always be viewed as the enemy without demonstrating in clear terms without any hidden agendas that you are not and that you have nothing but good intentions towards the people you claim are part of the fabric of Cyprus.

The status quo is not purely the TCs fault the GCs have to face up to the fact that they have 90% of what they desire, their own recognized GC state, all that's missing is land and more wealth which appears to be the GCs ultimate priority a small price to pay for running your own country for your own GC community, why on earth would you want a solution..all you have to do is keep the GC refugees duped by telling them continuously they all one day go home, just keep praying.

VP...Have you ever considered that you asking is impossible to demonstrate? Or that you will always demand more proof of goodwill and good intentions??/ I am getting the feeling that nomatter what you are offered as guarantees you and the TCs like you will never find the courage to trust the GCs ever again...So why don't you stop this pretending game and come out and say it..."We can never trust the GCs ever again,and nothing but Partition will do..." If you said that I would respect your views more...
I don't mean to imply that the GC government is doing all it can to allay your fears...But if they took some positive steps (say they removed all the Greek flags,stopped playing the Greek national anthem,made a universal declaration that Enosis is dead and buried and the TCs are as much a part of the Cypriot nation as the GCs, made Turkish truly the other official language) and invited you to abolish the Trnc and return to the Republic with full rights and guarantees as in 1960,would you do it?????

Isn't that what we have been saying all along. There have to be a few other factors thrown in but sure why not.....

I am glad you will come to this party,Zan...I guess we will have to wait now for VP's response before we bring out the champaigne...

Unless I am terribly mistaken, from what I've been reading VP had never demanded the contrary! His way of narrating things come a little stronger in terms of a TC, but his arguments always provided room for a federal bi-zonal island for Cypriots. The only objectors to full rights and guarantees of 1960 are some GCs in this forum (and some-very strongly), so I would not rush to open any champagne bottles yet my friend!

Just to give you an example, go and check if the rights given to TCs in 1960 were in line with the rights of what is now addressed as "18% of the total population", and the views based solely on that argument in this forum!

I did not want to burst his champagne bottle bubble just yet bigOz but my sentiments exactly. They do not want to give us back our rights in its entirety as to the constitution without changes and our veto being one of them.

[BirKibrisli]

But bigOz and Zan....the only thing stopping us from getting our rights under the 1960 constitution is ourselves.Unless I am mistaken there is no way we can be kept out of the RoC if we demand to go back...Republic of Cyprus is legitimate under the 1960 constitution which is still valid and cannot changed without TC agreement. I am open to be corrected if I am mistaken on this...But educated and accurate corrections only please people...Has anything happen constitutionally or under international law to prevent the TCs from returning to the Republic under the 1960 conditions???

[Viewpoint]

Ask Piratis what changes he would demand to the 1960 Consititution if we were to ever return to it? Akritas 2 would be placed in front of us accept these changes or no deal...not as easy as you suggest and pretty must repetition of history as I always say the pacakagingmaybe be new but the content is the same.

[BirKibrisli]

Ask Piratis what changes he would demand to the 1960 Consititution if we were to ever return to it? Akritas 2 would be placed in front of us accept these changes or no deal...not as easy as you suggest and pretty must repetition of history as I always say the pacakagingmaybe be new but the content is the same.

The question was not what Piratis or anybody else might politically would want,VP,but has there been any legal and constitutional developments/changes since 1964 to prevent the TCs from claiming their rights under the 1960 agreements??? In other words,if Talat abolished the Trnc tomorrow and demanded to return to the Republic with full rights,what would be the legal or constitutional objections to such a move???

[Viewpoint]

Ask Piratis what changes he would demand to the 1960 Consititution if we were to ever return to it? Akritas 2 would be placed in front of us accept these changes or no deal...not as easy as you suggest and pretty must repetition of history as I always say the pacakagingmaybe be new but the content is the same.

The question was not what Piratis or anybody else might politically would want,VP,but has there been any legal and constitutional developments/changes since 1964 to prevent the TCs from claiming their rights under the 1960 agreements??? In other words,if Talat abolished the Trnc tomorrow and demanded to return to the Republic with full rights,what would be the legal or constitutional objections to such a move???

You are forever the optimist, imo theoretically maybe it is possible but in reality it is riddled with dangers with regards to disbanding the TRNC and near enough declaring civil disorder as people would start to rush back to claim their properties and the risk of the GC wanting to watering down our rights under the constitution and cause th same issues we faced back in 1963...what will you do when the breakdown in parliament occurs becuase the TCs find Aktritas 2 put before them? and due to civil unrest cuased by no borders and personal conflict between current occupiers and previous owners. So to ask the question you have asked without a comprhensive solution where a structure is put in place to ensure a smooth transition and a peaceful exsistence is an invite to mayhem and disorder and at best very naive.

[zan]

Ask Piratis what changes he would demand to the 1960 Consititution if we were to ever return to it? Akritas 2 would be placed in front of us accept these changes or no deal...not as easy as you suggest and pretty must repetition of history as I always say the pacakagingmaybe be new but the content is the same.

The question was not what Piratis or anybody else might politically would want,VP,but has there been any legal and constitutional developments/changes since 1964 to prevent the TCs from claiming their rights under the 1960 agreements??? In other words,if Talat abolished the Trnc tomorrow and demanded to return to the Republic with full rights,what would be the legal or constitutional objections to such a move???

Are you moving the goal posts again.....Where is the appology and declaration first. We havent even got off the ground and you want us to abolish our republic. No deal!!!!!

[humanist]

Birkibrisli, I am no expert on the matter and I do not hold a my breath, Talat is a power hungry individual who play the same game his predescessor, has, The rights will be restored fully and will equal that of any other Cypriot. Having said this, why would you want to move to a country whose national anthem speaks of only one Cypriot and isa representative of only one Cypriot. Ethically this is wrong and that is where the RoC undermines itself and allows for discrimination to exist in the country. However on the other hand I can see why the are doing it. They need the support of Greece to provide for the safety of Cyriots living in the south.

[Get Real!]

Ask Piratis what changes he would demand to the 1960 Consititution if we were to ever return to it? Akritas 2 would be placed in front of us accept these changes or no deal...not as easy as you suggest and pretty must repetition of history as I always say the pacakagingmaybe be new but the content is the same.

The question was not what Piratis or anybody else might politically would want,VP,but has there been any legal and constitutional developments/changes since 1964 to prevent the TCs from claiming their rights under the 1960 agreements??? In other words,if Talat abolished the Trnc tomorrow and demanded to return to the Republic with full rights,what would be the legal or constitutional objections to such a move???

Are you moving the goal posts again.....Where is the appology and declaration first. We havent even got off the ground and you want us to abolish our republic. No deal!!!!!

[zan]

Ask Piratis what changes he would demand to the 1960 Consititution if we were to ever return to it? Akritas 2 would be placed in front of us accept these changes or no deal...not as easy as you suggest and pretty must repetition of history as I always say the pacakagingmaybe be new but the content is the same.

The question was not what Piratis or anybody else might politically would want,VP,but has there been any legal and constitutional developments/changes since 1964 to prevent the TCs from claiming their rights under the 1960 agreements??? In other words,if Talat abolished the Trnc tomorrow and demanded to return to the Republic with full rights,what would be the legal or constitutional objections to such a move???

Are you moving the goal posts again.....Where is the appology and declaration first. We havent even got off the ground and you want us to abolish our republic. No deal!!!!!

Do me a favour and PM this response to Bir GR so that he can stop dreaming that you guys will ever let us have equality in Cyprus. On the way perhaps you can drop a line to Kiks as well.

[Get Real!]

Ask Piratis what changes he would demand to the 1960 Consititution if we were to ever return to it? Akritas 2 would be placed in front of us accept these changes or no deal...not as easy as you suggest and pretty must repetition of history as I always say the pacakagingmaybe be new but the content is the same.

The question was not what Piratis or anybody else might politically would want,VP,but has there been any legal and constitutional developments/changes since 1964 to prevent the TCs from claiming their rights under the 1960 agreements??? In other words,if Talat abolished the Trnc tomorrow and demanded to return to the Republic with full rights,what would be the legal or constitutional objections to such a move???

Are you moving the goal posts again.....Where is the appology and declaration first. We havent even got off the ground and you want us to abolish our republic. No deal!!!!!

Do me a favour and PM this response to Bir GR so that he can stop dreaming that you guys will ever let us have equality in Cyprus. On the way perhaps you can drop a line to Kiks as well.

Look, I can always reconsider... did you mean something like this?

"We, the 700,000 Greek Cypriots humbly apologise for existing on this island for the past 10,000 years and subsequently getting in your way when you first invaded in 1571. etc..."

Is that humble enough for you Efendum Zan?